The Vipers' Double-Piston Firing Sequence

Performin Norman

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Re: The Vipers\' Double-Piston Firing Sequence

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NEON SNAKE:
FRO-O Theres a rubber califinator that resonates sequentially in double half time with the carbon fiber harmonic double muffler bearing in direct relation to the firing order.This was all worked out with UPS through months of negotiations.Dodge conceded and agreed not to paint the Vipers BROWN.Hope this helps.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh please stop. You are killing me. hahaha
 
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Re: The Vipers\' Double-Piston Firing Sequence

When DC constructed the first "Viper" it wasn't named the Viper. Actually, they named it "Chity Chity Bang Bang." Ultimately, the car's Dakota rotors, Stealth mirrors and Caravan fuel pump kept the project grounded. Also, the NTSB claimed "The car was absurdly fast but not everyone was willing to mount a Rear Deck Wing the size of a "Free Chinese Buffet Table" to keep it in flight." Hence, the "Viper" was born!

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Tom F&L GoR

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Re: The Vipers\' Double-Piston Firing Sequence

I think part of the "sound" is also that the 90 degree V-10 can't have even firing; it skips a beat here and there. Add or take away two cylinders and you could....
 

luc

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Re: The Vipers\' Double-Piston Firing Sequence

Doug,
"wasted spark ignition" is also what is used on motorcycles (as in my 1975 Z1b).
Since motorcycle engine RPM's are way higher than car,red line is anywhere between 9000 and 12000,why bikes don't have any problems with the DIS at high RPM's?
Could that be because the combustion chamber is way smaller than on a car?

Luc.00GTS
 

Marv S

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Re: The Vipers\' Double-Piston Firing Sequence

The reason it sounds like a "UPS truck" is for the reason Tom gave. To Expand, the Viper motor,like a common V-8, is 90 degrees between cylinder banks. Something to do with adding 2 cylinders onto a 360 (5.9L), even keeping the 360 bore centers and deck heights.

The proper angle for a V-10 is 72 degrees. Since Viper is 90 degrees, there are uneven firing pulses that occur at 54 degrees and 90 degrees of crank rotation. For that reason it will never sound like a V-8 or even a ~72 degree V-10. But the sound is unique to this car.

Even the first year C5-R small block , before it was increased in displacement had a louder and deeper than the GTS-R's.

A true GTS-R on race fuel and those 10 throttle bodies and side exhaust sounds way, way, better and different than street Vipers.

Sound improvement has been a priority in the 2003 and all reports are quite favorable.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrozenOrange:
Why does the Viper have such a firing order?
Why also does it fire 1 first, the next 8 at double sequences, and 1 at the end? Why don't they ALL fire at double-intervals?
This is why it sounds like a UPS truck, no matter what exhaust or muffler you have, because of the way the acoustics are formed by both exhaust manifolds releasing pressure simultaneously.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

Rich Carlson

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Re: The Vipers\' Double-Piston Firing Sequence

Every one has a small piece of the answer but let me try to help answer the question "Why does the Viper engine sound the way it does"..well to start with..there is a pulse (tone) ring on the crankshaft that has five groups of two notches equally spaced apart at the outer edge. Each group of notches will represent a signal for a specific set of pistons. The PCM will determine the basic timing by looking at the falling edge of the slots. Each corresponding slot is 72 degrees apart and 3 degrees wide and there is 15 degrees between each slot in the pair.

The falling edge of the first slot, of each pair of slots is used for cylinders 10,4,6,8,2. The second falling edge is used for cylinders 1,9,3,5,7. There are five sets of paired cylinders: #10 and #5,#9 and #8, #4 and #7, #3 and #2, #1 and #6. It could take the PCM one full engine revolution to determine the crankshaft position when it is cranking.

Since the V10 is a 90 degree block, the combined angle of the bore center lines of the opposing banks will be 90 degrees, which means that a piston will at TDC every 90 degrees. Sooooo for each cylinder to fire, it would take 900 degrees of crankshaft rotation and no matter how you do the math....that won't work. So to match the crankshaft rotation, it was necessary to make it an "odd fire" engine. That means that the cylinders are not fired at the same crankshaft angle. Five of the cylinders are fired at 54 degrees and the other five are fired at 90 degrees which adds up to 720 degrees or two complete crank revolutions. This is why the notch edges are at different degrees since the spark will be staggered. Ok, so I have expanded on Marv S's answer... now lets expand on Doug's answer.

A DIS coil can be arranged in various alterations of polarity. This means it does not matter if the spark fires positive or negitive as long as there is enough voltage to jump the spark plug gap. As the primary flux collapses through the secondary coil windings when the primary coil is interruped, a high voltage potental is created. A quick interruption causes the flux to cut through the secondary windings faster which means a quicker interruption results in more secondary voltage than a slow interruption. Dwell (spark timing) is constant, at low RPM based on battery voltage. A constant dwell allows constant voltage at the coil for a constant spark. But at high RPM, there isn't time for full saturation of the coil. So the PCM will change the primary duty cycle from 100% to 80% to speed things up.

The voltage will leave the coil tower for example, #1 and travel through the wire to the #1 plug, through the center electrode, jump the gap to ground. This would be the cylinder that is on the compression stroke. This will require about 10-15k volts of the 40k potential from the coil. The companion cylinder, #6 will be the wasted spark cylinder. To complete the series circuit back to the coil, the remaining 25k volts travels through the block to
the #6 plugs ground, and jumps the gap. This will take about 1-3k volts. The circuit is then completed through the spark plug wire back to the coil pack.

When cylinder #6 goes to the compression stroke, cylinder #1 is on the wasted spark stroke. But the voltage from the coil takes the exact same path due the polarity of the coil. There is more than enough voltage to fire the plugs at any RPM.

Hope this helps. BTW
Hey Jeff question for you.......did you get the curtains up in the trailer yet?????
 

Gavin

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Re: The Vipers\' Double-Piston Firing Sequence

LOOK - its a secret ok - the V10 only fires on four cylinders - just think what life would be like for all those other makes if it actually fired on all TEN cylinders.
IF this is what a UPS truck sounds and drives like - bloody wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Paul Hawker

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Re: The Vipers\' Double-Piston Firing Sequence

First of all, UPS drivers never say their trucks sound like a Viper.
In addition, Harley-Davidson also use the dual firing "wasted spark" method of ignition. They sound pretty good.

I support the 90 Degree V-10 theory, and am glad to hear the 03 will sound even better.
 

GTS Bruce

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Re: The Vipers\' Double-Piston Firing Sequence

Side exhaust cars sound the worse.You only hear an uneven firing 5 cylinders.For the best sounds add a cross over tube to a rear exit exhaust like the Corsa to help even out the power pulses. Bruce
 

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