200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what't the deal?

[ACELLR8]

200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

Went to the track this Saturday in my old Gen I. Sprayed a 200 Shot and was only able to muster a 12.0 at 123 MPH best.

Now I know I am no drag racing pro, only second time to the track but I was certainly hoping for more. Went to the track about 2 months ago and ran a 12.5 at 116 all motor.

The questions I have are for the guys running Nitrous.

Do you run it through all the gears or hit it later in the higher gears? I was only able to hit it on after I shifted to third, otherwise I would just spin or break loose. Tried it out of the hole in first and second and almost went sideways when I went full throttle and the spray kicked in.

I know Drag Radials would help, but would like to get the hang on street tires first and certainly feel an 11 second run is capable in a Gen I on street tires.

How does the progressive nitrous systems work? Any tips on drag racing using the Nitrous would be appreciated.
I am interested in hearing how you guys with Nitrous use it as I had no clue and was just winging it.

Thanks,

Ed

 

[Lee Dove]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

All the power in the world will not help if you can't get it to the ground! Get some tires on the car that can stay planted with the extra power. Kumhos will do the trick and are excellent in rain and will live about 8 to 10,000 miles on the street.

Also, until you get tires that will hold you should back the nitrous jets down to the 100 hp setting you will find you may be able to use in in 2ed gear and stay planted and go faster then you did with the 200 shot...

If your new to the world of Nitrous then here are some important things to remember.
Bottle pressure is very important. If you run a NX kit it is designed to be 900 to 1050 psi to get the performance and safety margins that were built into your system. Running less pressure will cause your system to run rich (hurt performance) Running to much pressure will cause your system to run lean and can cause severe damage......

Never engage the Nitrous at anything less then full throttle and do not engage until you have traction.

The progressive system (Fred) works by bringing the nitrous in a little at a time as traction permits. It pulses the solenoids to bring the nitrous on a percentage at a time say 20% to 100 % through the run and properly set up will out run dual stage kits.

On a side note* With the Kumho's and a 354 gear I can engage my kit in 1st gear without spinning and run it through the entire 1/4 mile. My car makes around 560 or 570 rwhp without the nitrous and around 725 rwhp with it

 

[bad viper]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

Street et's skinnies plus 200 shot with some mods should see
10's. I used it 2and gear and up.Dosen't make much sense to use
street tires with 200 shot of juice IMHO.

 

[GTS Dean]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

What's the deal? You either forgot to open the valve on your bottle, or it was empty.

 

[ACELLR8]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

Lee,

Thanks for the info and advice! I am definitely going to get some Drag radials or slicks once I get my half shafts on, before I go to the track again. I am also going to look into the progressive controller as well, as that sounds like a good set up.
I have the NX kit and do have the bottle warmer. The bottle presure was probably around 925 to 950 PSI. On cold days here in Pennsylvania, even with the bottle heater I cannot get the bottle to get over 950 PSI, it is a 15 pound bottle.

Bad Viper,

I would have to agree with you there about street tires. Think I learned that this weekend. I thought I have heard of some folks getting in the 11's with Nitrous and street tires. I was also curious as to why my MPH was so low.

GTS DEAN,

Is that what that little turny thing on the bottle is for? To open it, Now I know< THANKS!


OK, I guess this is where my lack of experience with Drag Racing let alone with Nitrous shows, that's why I was curious as to what some of the fast people do, like I said I was winging it and praying. Next time I will have to get a better strategy!

Does the MPH seem right assuming I was hitting it after I shifted to third?

 

[fast?]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

hi excllr8. i had the same problem at my track. after getting some purners and et streets i dropped more than a second. your in luck, got a great deal on the classified for the extra set or purner rims and mickey thompson et streets. best investment after getting n20.

 

[MES]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

Traction, traction, traction as the other put it. To lower your ET you need to put it to the ground off the line, 3rd & 4th gear will get you good MPH but will not help ET much because your going too fast when you hit the nitrous and run out of track. Kumhos make excellent street tires but if you just want a track tire go with a drag radial or better yet ET streets & skinnies. You can go 11's with nitrous using street tires no problem, I did many times (with just bolt on's, before the heads) but it's not easy. In one night at the track my time slips would look like this 12.2@125 12.7@123 11.6@126 12.1@123 11.9@125 in other words all over the place, very inconsistent. It just depended on the traction, number of throttle lifts, and amount of time the tires were spinning during that run. Also remember you'll get kicked for under 12.0 at NHRA tracks

 

[FrankBarba]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

call me. i will give you my old racing tires. they should help.

 

[Ray W]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

Ed, My Gen 1 had NOS-5180 150 shot,K&N's in stock air box and cats were re-sized up to 3" dia. with 3" Dyna Max Mufflers.
Nothing else. This combo averaged 11.80 with a best time of
11.59.

Launch the car at 1500-1800rpm and spray in every gear.

New tires are a must. If they are more than a year old they are
probably too hard.

Pilot Sports that came on 2000 and newer cars have the best
tread pattern and compound to date for daily drivers.

The Cats must be opened up and the stock muffler changed out
or you will not get all of the horsepower available on spray.


Of course ET Streets or Slicks will hook the best but I prefer
to race it the same way I drive it. These tires will allow you
to leave at higher rpms but be prepared to break parts in the long run.

My Own Experience-Results May Vary.

 

[TOOOFST]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

If your talking 200RW shot,should be 128+ even through 3rd and 4th.Your good to go with the above advise.One thing,sounds like you bought an nitrous kit and ran it without dyno tuning.Every cars a touch different,every states air quality and temp is different,that affects nitrous.Welcome to the nitrous vipers club of america.

 

[Jack B]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

There are some missing elements, do you have any exhaust mods. The Gen 1's are oem exhaust handicapped, that is item one.

Even if a 200 shot gets a full 200 hp, that is to the flywheel. You will only see about 85% to the rear wheels. Another issue is whether you will get 200 hp, it is not that easy, you have to work at it. Many of the N2O systems utilize delivery systems that just have a hard time putting out the advertised hp due to flow restrictions.

If you ran in cold weather without a bottle heater you are not going to get full power, especially with propane. When the bottle hits about 25-50% of true N2O weight the flow starts to suffer even when the bottle show good pressure you may not be able to maintain proper flow.

I would pull all the plugs and verify you didn't go lean. The back two on the drivers side should run the leanest. The most important thing is to get the car on a dyno and find our for sure the what the hp and a/f is.

Even without traction the mph shouldn't suffer to much, that is if you kept into all the way thru the mph lights. The 123 mph shows approximately 475-500 rwhp.

 

[onerareviper]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
On a side note* With the Kumho's and a 354 gear I can engage my kit in 1st gear without spinning and run it through the entire 1/4 mile. My car makes around 560 or 570 rwhp without the nitrous and around 725 rwhp with it
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holy sh*t! Your telling me with 725 rwhp and a 3.54 gear you can hook up with these Kumho (street legal) tires? If so, that is amazing! Are you modulating the clutch or easing into the throttle? Can you give us more details on the advantages of these tires - street driving/handeling, etc... If they last 8K-10K at $170 a piece, I'm sold! Although, I need an 18', which I am told is not available. Give us more details - please!!! Also, are you running Kumho's in the front as well? In your opinion, will the stock half shafts be up to the challenge with Kumho's and 600 RWHP (Street Driving)?


Thanks in advance...

 

[Lee Dove]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Holy sh*t! Your telling me with 725 rwhp and a 3.54 gear you can hook up with these Kumho (street legal) tires? If so, that is amazing! Are you modulating the clutch or easing into the throttle? Can you give us more details on the advantages of these tires - street driving/handeling, etc... If they last 8K-10K at $170 a piece, I'm sold! Although, I need an 18', which I am told is not available. Give us more details - please!!! Also, are you running Kumho's in the front as well? In your opinion, will the stock half shafts be up to the challenge with Kumho's and 600 RWHP (Street Driving)?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's true and they do! I leave at dead idle (like taking off at a traffic light) as soon as the clutch is out I stand on the go pedal at about 4000 rpm in 1st gear I engage the nitrous run it to about 5800 rpm granny shift hit the button again ect ect. The same routine through each gear.

This routine is good for me to run mid 10's at around 135 mph with 1.60 short times

Keep in mind these are not drag radials but, a real street tire with a tread life rated at 50 and are good in the rain. In other words they are in between a Pilot and a drag radial.

They can not take dumping the clutch at 3500 rpm and be expected to hook but, after they are rolling they seem to hold just about as much horsepower as you can put to them.

Would my car be faster with drag radials? Yes, because of the way I baby it at the line and do not speed shift I lose a half second or more thru the 1/4 mile.

Will stock half shafts hold up with them? NO! I have twisted two sets of Archer race half shafts, Tore the spider gears out of the rear twice and wasted one transmission due to the grip of these of these tires and the power they will hold....Yes, I run them only on the rear

 

[ACELLR8]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

Thanks again all for the responses and good advice!! I am getting the car dynoed on Saturday on motor only and N2O. I will either get some street ET's or the Kuhmo's to help with traction.

I do have full 3" Borla exhaust with the high flow cats, so I should not be getting resticted there. Other than that it is stock, except for Poser Mods.

After the dyno and tires I will try again on a better track too.

Thanks Ed

PS- Frank I will call you.

 

[onerareviper]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

Thanks Lee Dove.

These tires sound incredible for us street drivers that like to push the mash pedal. My only concern now is breaking parts.... Although, your Viper makes much more power than mine (600 RWHP vs. 725RWHP). You also use a steeper gear 3.54 vs. 3.07, plus nitrous hits hard. I'm sure your torque numbers are ludicrous! And we all know torque is what breaks parts. I plan an installing the Sean Roe SC'er to achieve the 600 RWHP. I may be OK. Time will tell....

Thanks again for the info....

Later

 

[jp]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

With a 200 shot in third and fourth should your Mph be higher, I think you have a NX or fuel delivery problem.
Do you have headers? If not could that also be a problem.
My Gen1 runs 11.85/120 with headers +3" sidepipes and M/T ET Streets only.
When i use the NOS (150Hp) does it run 10.90/130mph.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ACELLR8:
Thanks again all for the responses and good advice!! I am getting the car dynoed on Saturday on motor only and N2O. I will either get some street ET's or the Kuhmo's to help with traction.

I do have full 3" Borla exhaust with the high flow cats, so I should not be getting resticted there. Other than that it is stock, except for Poser Mods.

After the dyno and tires I will try again on a better track too.

Thanks Ed

PS- Frank I will call you.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[ACELLR8]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

JP,

I don't have headers, I do have 3" exhaust and high flow cats.

Just got the car dynoed with the 200 shot and all motor.

All Motor dyno #'s are:
376.2 RWHP & 449 RWTQ

With 200 Shot #'s are:
533.6 RWHP & 800 RWTQ

Car seems to be running rich with the 200 fuel jets, was wondering if I should jet the fuel down some to get more HP?

 

[Lee Dove]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

If it is rich you'll need Roe Racings VEC1 to get it straight. By the way I am now a dealer for all of Roe's products

 

[ACELLR8]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

Thanks Lee,

I was actually thinking the same thing myself. I would like to lean it out some to get N/A power up too.

As for when running N2O, can you just put a smaller sized Fuel jet in it. I was going to try this next time I go to the dyno, that way I could watch the AF ratio, to make sure I do not lean it to far.

 

[Lee Dove]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

I would not alter jet size from the required setting. Nitrous Express kits are designed with the correct jet sizes.Do not alter...

 

[Jack B]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

Lee:

I respectfully disagree, there are to many diffs among the viper engines and the actual NOS installs. You have to be absolutely lucky to end up with the correct a/f. From my own experience and contact with the tuners and several other NOS users - the a/f is something you have work at.

One more thing, the Roe controller is great on a NA engine, however, since it controls both timing and fuel it has limitations on a NOS car. It is far simpler and power rewarding to adjust jet size.


ACellR8:

Take a look at my post on this same topic and different header. You are already are running to lean, anymore and you won't have an engine. Your power/et problem is not the peak power rating, it is the area under the curve.

 

[Lee Dove]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I respectfully disagree, there are to many diffs among the viper engines and the actual NOS installs. You have to be absolutely lucky to end up with the correct a/f. From my own experience and contact with the tuners and several other NOS users - the a/f is something you have work at.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

EFI Nitrous Systems are tuned by fuel pressure Not by altering the jet sizes from what the engineers designed.

They don't spend all the money on R&D for nothing.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
One more thing, the Roe controller is great on a NA engine, however, since it controls both timing and fuel it has limitations on a NOS car. It is far simpler and power rewarding to adjust jet size.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is exactly what a nitrous car needs. I have almost 17 years experience in the installation and use of nitrous what may I ask is your experience?

cmfwaic

 

[Jack B]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

Lee:

To answer your question, I have been racing/tuning a little longer then you have. I have installed both NOS and NX products on both Gen 1 and Gen 2. I have over 50 dyno pulls in the last year. More importantly I have talked with numerous viper owners with the same problem - there are two many variables on the systems and cars to guarantee an exact hp, torque and a/f ratio.

This is not rocket science, if you tune for a/f you are not going to hurt yourself. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, I thought I was polite. My turn, how did all your personally installed systems run at VOI.

Respectfully

 

[opnwide]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

How is the fuel plumbed? It would seem like the gas solenoid is getting the full fuel injector pressure instead of being regulated down to a reasonable level.
My .02

 

[99 R/T 10]

Re: 200 shot Nitrous run 12.0 at 123 MPH, what\'t the deal?

So what did it dyno at?