5-Axis Billet Gen-4 Throttle Bodies: If I build it... will you come?

[Viper Specialty]

Hello everyone,

As many of you may know, and many surely dont since I have been somewhat distant from this website for a while, we produced a package that got quite a bit of publicity this spring, the VS-X700 Gen-4 Conversion. Part of that package, and probably the single most jaw dropping component of the whole build, were the throttle bodies that we designed for it. 5-Axis machined, custom from top to bottom, with integral Wiggins Clamp Flanges.

Pictures:

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The question of the day is... if I build something like this for the Gen-4 to rid them of the Plastic throttle bodies, would I have buyers? I will warn everyone in advance, they will not be cheap, there is a HUGE amount of internal machine time on DBW throttle bodies ... but they will be plug and play, billet, and second to none, with or without the Wiggins Clamp Flange, and choice of butterfly colors. I would offer them in an "exchange" format- ship me back your OEM cores after installation. I would of course make these an upgrade, and they would be oversize compared to the OEM components. These are the ultimate in functional Gen-4 Jewelry.

I would estimate pricing to be in the 2000-3000 per pair range, depending on quantities produced, which is not vastly out of line with billet FBW throttle body pricing anywhere else in the marketplace really. However, price is very dependent on quantity. While an order of 10 sets should get me in the ballpark, an order of 50 sets would make them substantially cheaper.

What does everyone think?

 

[bmw2nv2000]

If they add 30-40hp then yes Id be interested, but if purely for bling factor? No way. But thats just me and I dont have that kind of money to throw at bling in the engine bay.

 

[ACR steve]

I have seen and heard the car above firsthand at one of our events. The throttle bodies are a work of art. The whole motor set up looks,sounds and performs amazingly.

 

[Viper Specialty]

If they add 30-40hp then yes Id be interested, but if purely for bling factor? No way. But thats just me and I dont have that kind of money to throw at bling in the engine bay.

There will absolutely be a performance gain, I would estimate in the 15-20 range however, and I would need to couple this with manifold machining for the best effect to match the throttle outlet to manifold inlet. Luckily on the Gen-4, this is not a big deal, and can be coupled with things like manifold porting, polishing the top cover, etc in most cases. While I respect your opinion, I urge you to consider the fact that there are many parts on the market which give less performance gain and nowhere near the visual appeal of a modification like this, for the same or even more money in some cases.

These will increase performance, dramatically change visual appeal of the front of the engine, offer an optionally far superior inlet connection type, from both a performance and visual standpoint.

 

[bmw2nv2000]

Wow 15-20hp is more than I expected. Maybe if you come up with a TB and full ported/polished intake package for like $4000 and adds 40-50HP then I think youd have a winning combo. Id be ready to do that set up in a heart beat.

Oh and BTW the motor pics above are simply amazing.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Wow 15-20hp is more than I expected. Maybe if you come up with a TB and full ported/polished intake package for like $4000 and adds 40-50HP then I think youd have a winning combo. Id be ready to do that set up in a heart beat.

Oh and BTW the motor pics above are simply amazing.

Actually, you read my mind. I was thinking about a combination package that would include manifold porting, lower powder-coating, upper machining to match the throttles, upper polishing, and the throttle bodies to compliment. Basically a complete "drop on" intake configuration. It would look very similar to the above pictures.

PS- I just noticed your signature; do you have a Gen-4 as well? I hope I didnt mislead anyone in the original post, these would be a Gen-4 specific item.

 

[bmw2nv2000]

I do think that would be a winning package. I have an 06 already but Ive bought an 08 coupe this week. So its time to start the Gen 4 mods again.

 

[Steve M]

Question: being that the Gen IV is drive by wire, and assuming it behaves like other DBW systems, the idle is controlled by moving the blades. If you crack the blades, you should get X amount of airflow, and the computer should know what this value is. If you increase the blade size, the same blade angle will give you more airflow. So my question is this: since there is a lack of ability to tune the Gen IV computer, will increasing the blade size cause the computer to hunt for idle? For some reason I can see the computer commanding a certain throttle angle, which would result in an overshoot due to the unanticipated extra airflow. It might not be an issue, but I was curious if you thought it would even pose a problem.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Question: being that the Gen IV is drive by wire, and assuming it behaves like other DBW systems, the idle is controlled by moving the blades. If you crack the blades, you should get X amount of airflow, and the computer should know what this value is. If you increase the blade size, the same blade angle will give you more airflow. So my question is this: since there is a lack of ability to tune the Gen IV computer, will increasing the blade size cause the computer to hunt for idle? For some reason I can see the computer commanding a certain throttle angle, which would result in an overshoot due to the unanticipated extra airflow. It might not be an issue, but I was curious if you thought it would even pose a problem.

Couple points first:

-Yes, DBW is effectively a wire controlled throttle body which integrates idle control into its design.
-There is no "anticipation" programmed into a DBW computer program other than tip-in fueling, which is calculated based on plate movement rate, not position.
-The calculated load is a function of the mass airflow sensor and MAP sensors, both of which would take any extra flow into account.
-The throttle plates are open so little during idle control, that increases are negligible at best when closed.

That being said, Idle Control is an adaptive function, and idle position is learned by the computer during drive time based on the recovery rate and whether it over or undershoots the target idle speed. When the ECU commands idle, the throttle plates will be incrementally cycled around the target idle speed until it is correct, and then that value is latched in the ECU as the "base point" for future use, and is updated as needed.

Consider this- The ECU needs to be able to recalculate idle control as needed from a new air filter, to a completely clogged air filter.


Short version: No problem, larger DBW throttles are nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[Steve M]

Very cool...thanks for the explanation!

 

[black08]

If you can hook those gorgeous throttle bodies to my DC Performance intake manifold, I will definitely come!

 

[ACRucrazy]

Are they built?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Are they built?

They are not available yet, no. This product was shelved until later this summer when all of our current back-burner projects are completed... plugging away on all of the others, from the most adavnced Gen-4 TT built and all of its electronic wizardry, to the MyGig conversions, a new fuel module upgrade for the built cars, etc. I was hoping to delay this a bit more as the Gen-5 cars are delivered, as they will fit them as well and increase the market size.