820 RWHP and climbing.....

[Russ M]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

utahviper,

I have spoken with John H. himself and he was very specific that at least some of them run stock bottom ends. The one that ran the 8 was one of them, at least at first.

Its not all that impressive, I have a feeling with proper tuning we should be able to see at least 150hp per cylinder. Offcourse it would take a big turbo or twins without nitrous.

 

[Gerald]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

800rwhp and stock fuel system? gimme sum 'dem magik beanies

 

[Dr Roof]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

No Prob Utah

I hear you might make the journey to San Antonio? I hope you can. I am sure you will improve on your already impressive ET's.

 

[BLOWNGTS]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

800rwhp and stock fuel system? gimme sum 'dem magik beanies

Again, for those in the cheap seats. Yes it made 780 at the wheel with the stock fuel system but only up to 4800 rpms. That is when it goes lean. I am in the process of putting a monster fuel syetem on and bigger injectors (have 50's now). So yes it did 780 with stock fuel system but not across the entire rpm band. I wish it could. Matt

 

[Russ M]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

When you say stock fuel system with bigger injectors do you mean the stock paxton one with the two pumps and FMU? Or just stock with injectors?

It makes no difference what RPM you are at 780rwhp is just that and it takes a certain amount of fuel to achieve it, even if its at 3000 rpm.

 

[Paolo Castellano]

820 RWHP by 4800 or 5000 RPM seems impossible to me. Even if it is possible, I have seen the tensioner system on the Paxton kit. It is like an alternator, spring loaded deal. No way will it keep the belt on for very long. Also the 8-rib belt will not last as long as the 10-rib belts on the Heffner and DLM systems. The Paxton, by nature, is a BOLT ON only. It's design with the limited fuel system and having a 'minimal at best' tensioner system will prevent it from ever being able to hang with the Big Dog/High HP supercharger systems!

I recommend you switch to another system if you want the big power, otherwise it would be wise to "Detune".

 

[Joseph Dell]

I hate to have to disagree with everyone on the board, but the HP he's talking about isn't impossible on a stock fuel system... it just isn't a great idea.

Remember that there is an FMU... and what does the FMU do? It increases the fuel pressure in a semi-linear fashion based on vacume or boost. So you could have 80 psi in the fuel rail when under boost. Or more! And then the stock injector ends up spraying for fuel for each cycle.

Of course, the duty cycle of the injectors ends up being increased AND the amount of fuel spraying at each cycle is significantly more than the injector is rated for stock.

BUT, it isn't impossible.

I don't recall the formula, but there is one.

That being said, ~800 hp is WAY too much for the stock fuel system, even with an FMU. w/o doing the mathmatical calculations, I'd tune that bugger down fast until I had more fuel!

JD

 

[Fishtail]

I think there are other areas to cover other then just the fuel system. That's why DLM and Heffner are good at what they do. They cover all the potential weak links before you get into a disaster. Your high hp numbers may be short lived for the lack of modifications that you have now. I hope not though . That's a lot of ponies. We're all having a good time here,
-Lou

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

I hate to have to disagree with everyone on the board, but the HP he's talking about isn't impossible on a stock fuel system... it just isn't a great idea.

Remember that there is an FMU... and what does the FMU do? It increases the fuel pressure in a semi-linear fashion based on vacume or boost. So you could have 80 psi in the fuel rail when under boost. Or more! And then the stock injector ends up spraying for fuel for each cycle.

Of course, the duty cycle of the injectors ends up being increased AND the amount of fuel spraying at each cycle is significantly more than the injector is rated for stock.

BUT, it isn't impossible.

I don't recall the formula, but there is one.

That being said, ~800 hp is WAY too much for the stock fuel system, even with an FMU. w/o doing the mathmatical calculations, I'd tune that bugger down fast until I had more fuel!

JD

Fuel pressure and fuel volume are not to be confused.As far as the injectors 50lb should be fine you just need to get more fuel to them.

 

[Marc Lublin]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Strange that the post title is 820 RWHP and climbing and when someone asked to see a dyno sheet it quickly went to 780 hp. That's a big difference! Also it says that he is making it at 5000 rpm but later states that they never ran the car past 4800 rpm. Is it just me being a cynical New Yorker, or is something fishy here. Where is the dyno sheet anyway?

 

[GTSnake]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Strange that the post title is 820 RWHP and climbing and when someone asked to see a dyno sheet it quickly went to 780 hp. That's a big difference! Also it says that he is making it at 5000 rpm but later states that they never ran the car past 4800 rpm. Is it just me being a cynical New Yorker, or is something fishy here. Where is the dyno sheet anyway?

I would have to agree. I'm a little skeptical with the numbers at first glance. Now with the inconsistencies I'd like to see some back up. Not that I don't think the Paxton set up isn't good but I'd like to see more documented testing. I'm actually thinking about getting the Paxton over Roe and hoping it has the numbers to back it up.

 

[Olivier Caza]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Strange that the post title is 820 RWHP and climbing and when someone asked to see a dyno sheet it quickly went to 780 hp. That's a big difference! Also it says that he is making it at 5000 rpm but later states that they never ran the car past 4800 rpm. Is it just me being a cynical New Yorker, or is something fishy here. Where is the dyno sheet anyway?

That's what I thought too...all of a sudden, he changes the numbers. It still is a lot of horsepower but a lot of things are contradicting.

 

[Fishtail]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Strange that the post title is 820 RWHP and climbing and when someone asked to see a dyno sheet it quickly went to 780 hp. That's a big difference! Also it says that he is making it at 5000 rpm but later states that they never ran the car past 4800 rpm. Is it just me being a cynical New Yorker, or is something fishy here. Where is the dyno sheet anyway?

Hmmm... I thought the same thing. Were they SAE numbers?

-Lou

 

[BLOWNGTS]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

You know what guys, I run and own my business (not a speed shop). That means I work for a living. I do not hang out at the performance shop all day. I have converstaions with my mechanic on a daily basis. The 820 vs. the 780 rwhp difference came from me mis-understanding my mechanic. He said he thought the car would go 820 rwhp when it got fuel. It was currently at 780 rwhp. At least I corrected it. Second, the rpms are at 4800 when it hits 780 rwhp. Again, he said under 5000 rpms and I just took the 5000 rpm part when asking you guys for some advice. Geeeeezzzz, everybody on here is so skeptical and jealous it is funny. As I stated before, no matter how fast or smart you think you are, there is always going to be somebody faster and smarter. **** it up and deal with it. As for those who still do not think what I am doing is possible, I really don't care but I did see the dyno sheets this weekend and the numbers are real. I forgot to get a copy but if I can get a copy emailed to me today I will post it. The fuel sysytem is in process and when it is complete I promise full pictures and final dyno numbers. Matt

 

[Marc Lublin]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Jealous, I guess you didn't know that I am driving a 2000 with plenty done to the motor and Jason Heffners SC system pushing 13psi. Believe me, my post doesn't come from jealousy. I work too, own my own business which has it's pressures, but to come out and change many of the details as the thread progresses and then even add that you work for a living? Give me a break! Jason told me that if I can get enough fuel, I can push 2020 rwhp, Not. Just post the real facts so everyone can learn from your experience.

 

[BLOWNGTS]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Spoken like a true New Yorker. I did not say "you" were jealous did I? I do not think I named anyone dude. I never said I had pressures either did I? I just was implying I am not a full blown mechanic (why I said I work) therefore sometimes my wires get crossed from what my shop tells me to what I post. I only change my threads b/c I am in a learning curve. If I post something that is not 100% true then I am man enough to change it and say I had it wrong or misunderstood something. Must be nice "Marc with 2000" to never make a mistake and never have to correct anything. Like I said, spoken like a true New Yorker. To follow your lead also "Marc with a 2000", along with my "old" '96 I have a Hummer, Supercharged Escalade and a nice little '02 Twin Turbo Porche. Yes I know there are people who have a lot more, maybe even you "Marc with the 2000". I was not trying to get in a ******* contest here. Just do not like posters implying I am lying. Confused sometimes yes, liar no.

 

[Marc Lublin]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Matt,
I call it like I see it. I thought comment about everyone being so skeptical and jealous here was aimed at me since your post seemed to be in response to my post about the fishy #'s. Thanks for clearing things up. Please post the dyno sheet when you get a chance. Good luck with the car.

 

[onerareviper]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Here's the reality BLOWNGTS. If you can make 800+ RWHP realiable (an that's a BIG if), you have undermined all the centrifugal SC tuners. Think about it. If your Joe Smoe and you just spent $15,000+ -> $30,000, had to ship/drive your car to a tuner and leave it for months, you would EXPECT it to be waaaayyyyy better than a $10,000 (give or take) bolt-on kit. You would demand this... And you would question everything that this Joe Smoe bolt-on blower had to say. I don't see a problem with this, as long as it's not malicious.

Heck, if Kenne Bell came out with a complete twin-screw blower kit for $3,500, you can bet all the people that bought Sean Roe's system would be questioning every bolt of that system. I don't see this happening, but just trying to give a correlation.

Remember, competition is healthy...

 

[BLOWNGTS]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

No ifs. I am making the HP now (780rwhp). Just running out of fuel so installing fuel pump this week. There is no magic I have bottled here. I just have a good friend who happens to be a damn good mechanic and not afraid to tune or work on Vipers. Most shops see Vipers and they see $$$$$$. No one really has had a good bolt on kit till now, and it even leaves something to be desired, but with a few tweaks anybody can have this power for around $10,000 (kit was $7900, extra parts I bought from Wayne that used to work close with Apex $1500 and now a fuel pump under a $1000). Like I said before I do not understand why everyone is a critic or so skeptical. I only began posting b/c I was surprised by the HP I can make with no internal mods other than fuel pump. Not trying to get in ******* contest with everyone who has a fast car. If your car or anyones is fast and you can do it cheaper, more power to you. I am not going to race or show this car. This is all for fun. I have no problem with debate just not false accusations. Matt

 

[BLOWNGTS]

Dyno.....

Here is the copy of the dyno the shop just emailed me. I will get a better copy the next time I go by the shop. I think that says, now don't quote me, 781 RWHP. Smooth line to I must say. Matt

http://xpupload.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=14c54c32-4f85-2b35-c332-4579275243ff&size=

 

[onerareviper]

Re: Dyno.....

Matt,

You totally mis-understood my post. I realize you are making 780+RWHP, that was not my point. My point is can you make this type of power RELIABLE, year after year, without driveability issues and blower parts failing (tensioners, etc...). According to the naysayers, this system is not up to the task. I AM NIETHER A NAYSAYER OR BELIEVER. My stand is only time will tell... I wish you the best, as it would be great to have another option.

 

[onerareviper]

Re: Dyno.....

No one really has had a good bolt on kit till now.

Hmmm... Comments like this are going to get you in trouble. The twin screw SC kit Roe sells is putting people in the mid-10's (1/4 mile) for around $10,000. It has no lag, hence crazy torque/power off idle. Best torque curve in the business. Initially, some people did experience minor issues. But with the release of the VEC-2, better injector clips, + 100s of kits installed, the product is a winner. Remember, the dyno is only useful for tuning, and some even question its application in this respect. HP/Torque figures mean nothing until they are substantiated with real-life racing examples.

 

[Landspeed]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

780rwhp with the stock fuel system? Didnt the Roe S/C have fuel problems with around 600hp? Changing dyno numbers, 780rwhp not even at peak rpms with basically stock Viper, and the smoothest dyno sheet I've ever seen.........somethings not right here, you might do a drug screen on your mechanic.

 

[Gerald]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Holy [******].. your A/F is at 9 at times.


Noone is jealous, it's just what you say may be getting you HP on the dyno, its' making your engine a potential grenade and by looking at the A/F it's suprising you can't hear the detonation over the exhaust note. I mean, your A/F is dipping into the 9's and only in the recommended zone for a few hundred RPM. I think many of us are only trying to help.



But you said it correctly when you said you won't be driving this car. I see no problem with getting those numbers just for a dyno run now and then (ouch). Heck, anyone can spin a blower up, just get a smaller pulley , step back (way back) and mash the gas.

When your getting 800+rhwp while maitaining an A/F of 12.3, then post results.
G

 

[Janni]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Thank you, Gerald - I was thinking the same thing. The shape of the A/F is downright scary. It seems no one was monitoring it or it would have never been allowed to go that low....

 

[dansauto]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

hence my question in an earlier post, Tribute to stong viper motors if he did not do any damage to it!

 

[Tiepilot]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Big hp

 

[BLOWNGTS]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

780rwhp with the stock fuel system? Didnt the Roe S/C have fuel problems with around 600hp? Changing dyno numbers, 780rwhp not even at peak rpms with basically stock Viper, and the smoothest dyno sheet I've ever seen.........somethings not right here, you might do a drug screen on your mechanic.

Landspeed let me start with you. If you are so smart and think I am so full of sh*t come to Charlotte NC with your wallet and put your money where your fat mouth is. This board is ridiculous. I have no reason to lie or change anything you dork. I have posted everything I have done and as soon as I get my fittings for my fuel system my car will be running and dependable. This offer is for anyone else that has a problem with me or my mechanic. Charlotte has plenty of hotel rooms and I could use a little extra cash. Also the motor is fine, I told you guys this was a learning curve. I will post pictures, dyno numbers, and repeat my challenge when the car is finished in the next few weeks. Matt

 

[BLOWNGTS]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Gerald and Janni, let me get this right you are saying 9 to 1 is dangerous? By standard defintion that would be very rich. Dumba**! Figure out what you are talking about before your next post. Gerald since you don't know anything more than an armchair quaterback call your "level 2" mechanic or Heffner or Paxton or anybody that knows anything and they will also tell you 9 to 1 is rich. You people need to take a crash course in engines. I do not know much but damn you make me look smart. Again, Charlotte is not far for you Janni, and Gerald I am not sure where you are but come to my shop and bring your wallet anytime. Pleeeezzzzeeee! Matt

 

[Janni]

Re: 780 RWHP and climbing.....

Matt,
You are right - my apologies - I looked at only the shape of the curve and paid little attention to the numbers. 9:1 is actually quite rich.

Good luck on your project. I doubt with an invitation like that I'll be travelling to Charlotte to meet you anytime soon.