ACRX Headers

Torquemonster

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Hahahahaha anyone that thinks those Chinese knocks offs are an improvement ought to buy twin tornados to boost their intakes. Combined they should add 200hp on the seat of pants and lack of brain neuron dynometer. Gawd those are a hideous POS inside
 

Neil - UK

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there's some chinese stuff put on our vipers out of the factory :confused: !

have you seen the bottom of a 'mopar' gen3 trunk lock, it says 'made in China' in nice big blue letters clearly visible every time it lifted up.... doesnt that just grind your gears Chuck :)
 

tzortzViper

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there's some chinese stuff put on our vipers out of the factory :confused: !

have you seen the bottom of a 'mopar' gen3 trunk lock, it says 'made in China' in nice big blue letters clearly visible every time it lifted up.... doesnt that just grind your gears Chuck :)

One more part like the headers (if Chinese finally) would make the difference...? Or wouldn't it??

:dunno::dunno::dunno:




.
 

GTS-R 001

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"Finally out of the header closet"

Steve let's shed some light on your obvious B.S. You called to purchase headers and to be set up as a dealer which all parties involved agreed to. We all really wanted you to succeed as a dealer. You purchased the entire generation line of ARH Viper headers which at the time we thought was odd, but now it makes perfect sense. Since you were close by I decided to drive down and hand deliver your set of ACRX Headers, shake your hand and thank you for your business. We talked about our companies & products like most businessmen would and left on good terms.

Truth: Toddy, I was already set up a a reseller for American Racing Headers, I was advised by Nick that in order to have Gen 4 headers, I had to deal through you, I did, I listed them at your demanded list price of $2795.00.

Fast forward to our meeting several months later in Petaluma, Ca when I delivered to you a set of Gen 4 turn outs with high flow cats in a 3" finished pipe configuration per your request. You had the entire ACR aero package in the back of your pick-up truck and told me flat-out that you needed to hurry up and get those parts packaged, over to fedex and ship them out to China that day, because of your fabricator's deadline to copy and produce the Gen 4 factory hood, splitter & wing in time for the VOI. At which point you asked me to keep your manufacturing location off the record, which I thought unusual since most vendors are proud of their manufacturing process and boast a bit. In addition you had the entire line of headers that you purchased from us in the back of your truck along with several other header brands. I then asked you point blank are you planning to send our headers to China as well, which you replied not at all. I stressed to you it would not be acceptable and I would purchase the headers back from you to avoid any future issues. You assured me that you would not and infact pointed out that you had much respect for the time & effort that our companies had invested in the ACRX headers.

Truth: Yes, you met me in Petaluma with the Turnouts I had ordered as you had also shipped the 2.5 inch ones incorrectly as I had ordered 3" and you brought the replacement mis-shipped wrong side collector as well. I did not have what you say in my truck, I had a Wing that had been made at a composite shop in Missouri, and showed it to you.

VOI rolls around and your hanging with us at the dinners, the events and at the track. While all this time your were basically a "Snake in the Grass". It was more disappointing than anything for it to come to light that you are what you are.

Suspiciously you would always call around the time when I was helping diagnose fitment issues with Viper owners that had purchased your knock off headers and were having problems. Now I see that you were on a fishing expedition trying to establish if I had figured out that it was your product.

One of these days you will have to post up the names of these people that called you, because frankly I do not believe the rhetoric and Sam corrected you on this line of deception already

I offered to fix a dent for a VCA members ACRX header only to find out they were fakes. We realized that the headers had come from you when the return waybill listed you as the recipient. I called you multiple times to discuss this situation only to have you avoid my calls.

TRUTH: Your post was at 12:00 + on Feb 25th, this cell phone statement from the day before shows that I talked to you a number of times that day , as I stated in my post; I did not avoid your calls as you state. That is your number isn't it? It matches the one in your rotating ad here on the VCA site. Is this another mistruth?


MODERATOR EDIT PHONE NUMBER REMOVED


Are you going to address the rest of the mis-statements of facts?

My comment still stands, you have taken a non-issue and made a mountain out of a mole hill to promote yourself.
 
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Chuck 98 RT/10

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Sorry but 3K for a set of pipes is outrageous. Heck, 2K is bad enough, but 3K? For that kind of scratch who can blame anybody for building knockoffs? Jeeze, it's got me thinking of investing 50K for a CNC mandrel bender. Since I like doing this kind of work anyway...hmmm.
 

VicTxV10

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Steve,

You're saying these are not imported, Chinese made copies of the American Racing/BBG Gen4 header but rather American made prototypes that lead up to the ACRX header? If this is true, then this could be the reason why everyone that has had a set looks different, as they were probably made in different stages of development?
 

sssammm

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Who the hell in their right minds would send them to china to get made, to get value they would have to be made in a bulk order....how many viper owners would want a set 20? 30? just not viable
 

Canyon707

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I think we need to get down to what is really important. I have not seen any chicks with Vipers in several days. This thread is getting way to boring and the pictures do nothing for me.
 

steve911

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Sorry but 3K for a set of pipes is outrageous. Heck, 2K is bad enough, but 3K? For that kind of scratch who can blame anybody for building knockoffs? Jeeze, it's got me thinking of investing 50K for a CNC mandrel bender. Since I like doing this kind of work anyway...hmmm.

I was thinking the same thing.... bending tube is not rocket science for the most part.

I wonder if Dodge paid anywhere near that much to put them on the ACRX's or a "deal" was made that Dodge couldnt refuse.

The other thing that I noticed is that there doesnt seem to be alot of difference in headers from the middle collector on back to the end. It seems that the only thing that REALLY changes is the header flange between the different generations.
 

shooter_t1

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I was thinking the same thing.... bending tube is not rocket science for the most part.

I wonder if Dodge paid anywhere near that much to put them on the ACRX's or a "deal" was made that Dodge couldnt refuse.

I'm curious now as to what the markup on a set of headers really is.
 

shooter_t1

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Be sitting down when you find out.

Actually Chuck, I have a pretty good idea how much. One of the reasons I haven't purchased a set. Nothing wrong with making a profit...racking your customers over the coals is another.
 

CCBrian

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My dad was in manufacturing...he would have the first prototype made and it cost $100K....then each after was $400 to produce...if he sold 50K of them then the cost of tooling and design was spread over a lot of units...with a Viper...how many do you really will be sold the first year of two...so part of the cost is not the cost to build...but the RD cost that have to be spread over x amount of units...that is why you can buy a header for a small block header for peanuts.
 

TowDawg

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I think the cost is huge too, but somewhat agree with CCBrian. I am in manufacturing as well and R&D and fixturing costs have to amortized over how many you think you will sell. That said, I can;t see a lot of R&D costs and fixturing costs would be minimal on a set of headers.

Considering you don't get a huge gain from headers unless you're FI, they really aren't worth it in my opinion, except for the better sound. The only reason I put mine on was that while the motor was out for an Arrow rebuild, they noticed my stock manifolds were cracked. New ones from Dodge were the same price I paid for my M&M's.

Yes, I could have bought a used set of stockers for a few hundred, but why bother if they are going to crack again. It's pretty common for them to develop cracks if you actually put miles on the car like I do. I would be willing to guess that most guys out there with 25,000+ miles on their Viper have a cracked manifold, whether they know it or not.
 

steve911

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Yeah, Belanger has been raking it in for many years now. $2900 for Gen4 without the cats!!!

Take a good look at a set of Belanger's compared to a set of American Racing / ACRX Headers. The welds on a set of Belangers looks awesome. The welds on the ACRX headers that I saw and handled at VOI do not compare in quality. I saw spatters, what appeared to be some crystalization in the collector welds. There was no heat coatings on the ACRX ones either.

Features like that cost extra money. Am I trying to justify Belangers list price? No, all I am saying is there are added features given for the same money. Then there is reputation. Lou 's been around a long time and has proven himself. The other person has sold headers to Dodge. Just because he became a supplier doesn't make a reputation.
 

steve911

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No header manufacturer is reinventing the wheel. Header design is header design as far as a street Viper goes. They all start at the same point and end at the same point. They all have to traverse the same confines of the chassis. So to infer that there is huge development costs associated with a new version of a header for a street car is not true. They are all pretty much the same design and I would venture to guess all pretty close to the same horsepower.
 

CCBrian

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I think the cost is huge too, but somewhat agree with CCBrian. I am in manufacturing as well and R&D and fixturing costs have to amortized over how many you think you will sell. That said, I can;t see a lot of R&D costs and fixturing costs would be minimal on a set of headers.

Considering you don't get a huge gain from headers unless you're FI, they really aren't worth it in my opinion, except for the better sound. The only reason I put mine on was that while the motor was out for an Arrow rebuild, they noticed my stock manifolds were cracked. New ones from Dodge were the same price I paid for my M&M's.

Yes, I could have bought a used set of stockers for a few hundred, but why bother if they are going to crack again. It's pretty common for them to develop cracks if you actually put miles on the car like I do. I would be willing to guess that most guys out there with 25,000+ miles on their Viper have a cracked manifold, whether they know it or not.

I disagree based on what my car did...base line was 545 rwhp...with the Mopar controler and headers...using stock muffers..we made 618 rwhp on 91 and 638 with 100 octane...the control wont do a damn thing with less than 93 so the gain from 545 to 618 was ALL HEADERS...this was all done and documented by DC Performance and if you search back to JAnuary 2009 you will find the postings...this was on my 2008 ACR.
 

VicTxV10

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Steve,

You're saying these are not imported, Chinese made copies of the American Racing/BBG Gen4 header but rather American made prototypes that lead up to the ACRX header? If this is true, then this could be the reason why everyone that has had a set looks different, as they were probably made in different stages of development?

Well Steve, yes..no????:eater:
 

SNKEBIT

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I love how people post about manufacturing and R&D when they have no freeking clue.
Sorry folks, some of you are walking in the dark.:dunno: I started in this business because I actually thought , (like some of you), that it can't possibly cost that much to make a set of headers. Well,,,,,,,, after going down the road of trying to make a "cheaper" set of headers I discovered that R&D, materials, manufacturing, dealing w/ suppliers, dealing with tire kickers constantly, and all the other b.s, that goes with selling a product to the public, it's almost not worth it. We do this cuz we love the Viper and most of the owners. lol
Cheaper is just that, JUNK. I refuse to go down that road.:D
There is no way enough of a Viper market out there to get the costs any lower without cutting your own throat, sorry.

M&M Performance :2tu:
 

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