An SVS Story - pix

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DrumrBoy

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As promised, here is the data supporting my claim that SVS is capable of doing incredibly sloppy work, charging too much and not standing behind their product.

Clearly SVS can also do good work, and I'm certain they'll scare up appropriate testimonials. The point is, unless you open your wallet wide and its your lucky day, be very cautious about dealing with this tuner. Many have been taken advantage of...few take the time to chronicle the information.

I brought the car to SVS in early 2003 because someone from the VCA suggested they could help me get the car through DMV inspection. The car is a John H car, built in 2001 which I hed seen on the track a few months before. It made 520 RW when I got it despite SVS claims that it was stock.

Interestingly, in my very first phone conversation with Ron Sr, before he even had seen the car, he told me that "I'd definitely need a fuel system". I found that curious since stock fuel systems are certainly good to 520 RW. That was an omen I should have paid attention to, but I was a newb and trusted 'em.

The car went in for help with inspection and the first thing done was a leakdown test and a dyno run. The leakdown report (who knows which car it was done on) showed alot of variation. The dyno showed 192 RWHP!!!! At this point the recommendation was to pull the heads and inspect....this was the point of no return and I fell for it.

SVS proceded to pull the engine and rebuild it. Jr. asserts that I spec'd the cam (which itself is preposterous) but as you can see in the SVS build sheet below, the cam that caused HUGE problems was part of their spec. It may have been a mistake from an earlier mission or maybe new, I can't tell. I can show you what SVS spec'd:

1_SVS_Build_Sheet_-_Parts_Labor.jpg


The build took several months, I assumed my job wasn't a priority for them but it was winter so what the heck. When it was all done, I proudly received it after paying ALOT of money and was shocked to feel how limp it was. It was MUCH weaker than when I had brought it in. Low end torque was OK but it was a dog at higher rpm.

SVS seemed surprised by this so I accompanied them to the dyno for a couple of diagnostic pulls. This is essentially how the car ran AFTER the SVS rebuild (Take special not of the "SVS rebuild and cam" citation on the dyno sheet!!!)

2_SVS_Dyno_with_programmed_PCM_for_tuning.jpg


This was disappointing but after several more weeks at SVS and several additional pulls, Ron Sr. just said, "Enjoy it as it is, its just doesn't make much power". Now there's the spirit! I paid 5-figures for SVS to take 100HP away! They would have nothing more to do with the engine and I was on my own.

During one of the trips to the dyno with an SVS employee at the wheel, SVS reported that the half shaft yoke had broken and that they'd need to replace both. With the car at their shop (and not owning a trailer) I was again stuck. The nice beefy Unitrax that were on the car could have been refurbed but SVS needed the bay my car was in so they recommended regular Mopar units which were, you guessed it, on the shelf.

With a promise that I could pay them to refurb the Unitrax and swap out the Mopars in the future, they undertook the massive project of swapping the half shafts; changing the oil, and screwing in an O2 sensor. This effort, they claimed was 20 HOURS....see invoice below:

3_Half_Shaft_Invoice.jpg


Take note too that at this juncture they also actually installed the shifter they had previously billed me for and "forgotten" to put in. As you can see from the n/c amount....they didn't forget to BILL ME when they didn't put it in!

OK, so I spent that summer and fall trying to tune. I bought a VEC 1 which is like bringing a knife to a gun fight, but SVS had destroyed the DFI piggyback that was in there initially so I took the first step towrds tuning. It did only a smidge of good:

4_Dyno_after_VEC_1_tuning.jpg


In the late fall, I took the car to a reputable shop with a great Viper Tech to check on the valvetrain since it was very loud and I figured it might be contributing to the big flat spot in the HP curve.

Interestingly, about half of the lifters were installed incorrectly and were shot. See commentary and invoice below:

5_Documentation_of_incorrectly_assembled_valvetrain.jpg


Having complained to SVS about the shoddy workmanship, they claimed I should have brought it to them, and that they wouldn't stand behind the work - even though it had been botched - because they didn't do the work. Having seen a bill for a 30 hour half shaft change, who in their right mind would have brought it back for more????

The dyno results improved a little but the flat spot was still there:

6_Dyno_results_after_doing_valvetrain_correctly.jpg


I kept working the boards while I drove the car....no track time and no running with big dogs (with a whopping 400HP on tap between 2000 and 3600 that wpould have been enbarassing)....when I noticed nasty noises from the clutch.

I took it back to the reputable dealer with the excellent Viper Tech who confirmed something not right and took these pix of the disassembled clutch. I can't remember the exact phrasiology but it had something to do with "even a ***** knows you have to actually tighten ALL the fasteners when you reassemble these things". The fasteners that backed out made a mess of the clutch as you can see below:

6_Dyno_results_after_doing_valvetrain_correctly.jpg


7_Fastener_backing_out.JPG


8_Scored_clutch.JPG


Beginning to feel like Ground Hog Day I called SVS to complain about an egregious example of poor workmanship again costing me money. They asked to see the bill....don't know if they didn't believe me or were considering remuneration, so I sent it to them:

9_Clutch_replacement_invoice.jpg


At this point SVS actually made a verbal offer of compensation, which was both incredibly low and never followed through upon. I don't have a document on this since it was made over the phone, what is certain is that I've never seen a penny from SVS.

So I continued to work the boards and the books to figure out whether it was a breathing problem or a cam problem (both are expensive so I prefered to be right about which to try first) and the data I collected all pointed to the cam. In fact one of our VCA colleagues said it well when he said "whoever designed this cam ought to be *****-slapped"
10_Commentary_on_the_cam1.jpg

So I bit the bullet, Jason Heffner recommended a cam and we put it in. NIGHT and DAY. If it weren't for all the other (costly) headaches along the way, I'd like to think I'd have changed the cam sooner. I had asked for the one that SVS removed to be returned but although they said the right things...they never returned it so I had no spare or control" with which to experiment.

With the valvetrain fixed (lifters, springs, seals, cups....alll had to be redone) and a non-ridiculous cam, the car made a healthy 534RW:

11_July_06_Dyno.jpg


With a bit more VEC tuning, the car now makes 555/585....about what you'd expect from a 650R, no more no less.

A word to the wise, be very careful trusting your car to SVS. I have seen great cars roll out of their shop, however if it's not your day you can be severely overcharged, lose parts and wind up with a poorly wrenched mess that you'll have to pay again to have remedied.

Sorry for the length, but with Jr.'s revisionist history out there, it had to be said.

:usa:
 

CAIN MKII

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This is a dreadful story and I'm happy you got back full power in the end, after all this ordeal.
How can they screwed around such a nice car?
And I don't even talk about the bill.
Did they have a problem with hennesey's job on the 650R? Sabotage.
 
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grcforce327

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WOW! Glad you got it lined out.

Well,my car is done and should dyno next week.I'll be happy to share my experience when completed.
 

ViperTony

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WOW...the lifter story is mind-boggling. I'm afraid to even ask you what this whole ordeal cost you...Glad to see your car is back to 'normal'.
 

jpa99acr

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well that was well documented and laid out. I think I will be avoiding SVS.
 

Camfab

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I feel your pain. It's really unfortunate when a reputable shop goes South. The headers they made are amazing, yet when I called them to get some wrap it took three months and some B.S. You live and learn, but that does'nt make it right. By the way, the stock fuel system is good for 620 RWHP on a naturally aspirated motor.
 

viperpilot99

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I feel your pain. It's really unfortunate when a reputable shop goes South. The headers they made are amazing, yet when I called them to get some wrap it took three months and some B.S. You live and learn, but that does'nt make it right. By the way, the stock fuel system is good for 620 RWHP on a naturally aspirated motor.

Interesting enough the headers are a replica in design to the Mopar racing unit. Im going to post more information on this on my other thread I had a month ago about the Mopar unit so check it out.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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Sorry for your pain. But stories like this ( and there are plenty ) are exactly the reason some of us get amp'd over Dodge building a warrantied bullet proof stock 600hp V10 and don't really have any interest in much aftermarket work.

Best of luck. Hope you get resolve.
 

ROGUE

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If you guys had ANY idea how many times things have gone to litigation between SVS and customers you would be shocked they can sell a set of spark plugs.
 

00SVTdubs

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thats the reason why I spent $80 from DC Performance for the same shifter bolt that SVS sells for $25.... I figured it would be cheeper in the end
 

Joseph Dell

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For those of you who ave never seen a lifter before, they are all marked so that you know that one side is up and one side is down. the shop manual says in bold print INSTALL LIFTER WITH MARKER FACING UP.

Sorry to see you have to print this. I know you've been trying to resolve this off-line for a while. I'm sorry it was never resolved to your satisfaction [by the original vendor].
 

PhilC

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What trash they must be to do these things. The only solice is knowing that sooner or later they will do this sort of thing to someone not as nice as you are about it. I just hope their execution shows up on You Tube.
 

whitebluevipe

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This is great you did this to get the word out. I relieved a similar situation on a street rod pick up i did so i definitely feel your pain. Stay away from Snyder and Snyder Machine shop in Northumberland Pa. they had my truck engine for 2 years and 4 months. and it still wasn't right!! i could write a book on all the problems.
 

V10SpeedLuvr

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With the Viper community being so small, it amazes me how people will try to screw others. In a small group of people like Viper owners, HORRIBLE press like this could put a big dent in their business (think Macedo and a yellow GTS). Its not like we're Civic owners where if you screw one, there's a billion more out there and only 10 will ever hear your story.
 

mad0953

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Just a question from a relative newbie: I noticed on the invoice they charged you for 4 tubes of the rear axel additive. Did they put that in your car's rearend?? If so, Mopar says to add one tube.....what's the extra 3 tubes for? Thanks :)
 

2001 GTS

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Just a question from a relative newbie: I noticed on the invoice they charged you for 4 tubes of the rear axel additive. Did they put that in your car's rearend?? If so, Mopar says to add one tube.....what's the extra 3 tubes for? Thanks :)

Sounds like tubes of KY instead...

Only good part of the story is you put down 555!
 

CROM

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I hate seeing this kind of stuff. I got screwed years ago for an intake system on a Supra costing me 200 bucks and that really pissed me off. Last time I heard that vendor was in jail, so I get a warm and fuzzy now. I can't imagine what I would do if this happened to me on the order of thousands of dollars. This shop will probably earn its right to be added to a long and ever increasing list of places that have screwed over Viper owners. I'm sure the effects of this incident will cost them dearly, and if all the information is true, rightfully so. I'd be interested in seeing how much lost business and revenue Sun Ra's unfortunate experiences cost LM. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't SVS get bought out and change management a few months ago?

Your posts are detailed and concise. You leave no room to be bad mouthed by the opposing party. Perhaps SVS will reimburse you in one form or another in an effort to save some of their reputation, otherwise, I doubt anyone on this forum will be buying from them in the future.
 
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GTS-R 001

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I think a lot of us that have spent any significant amounts of money with various tuners have a few tales to tell, I have a tuner that crashed my car and have yet to pay a penny for any of the repairs and the same guys crushed a roller lifter in my built engine, honed the cylinders out of true , removed the shrapnel from the crushed lifter ( without repairing the damage from running the engine with the shrapnel in it, siezed bearings cracked a piston ( that they installed ), destroyed oil pump etc. ), and then they buttoned up the engine and didn't say a thing....
 

SnakeBitten

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Wow....Just utter incompetance or just a "F you" attitude....You sir are a gentleman and a very calm, level headed individual and handled this with class.....I cant imagine this happening to me and not losing considerable cool....I hope SVS goes out of business....there really is no need for overpriced SVS with reputable tuners like Heffner/UGR out there....Its like dumb apes run/work at SVS...Didnt they know that with such a small community like this that any subpar work/treatment will get to light? There is always two sides but in this case there can be no justification for the stuff done to this guy...Id love to hear Jr. explain this one...
 
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powerstream

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V10speed lover what was the deal with Macedo and the yellow GTS
very interested as I have a strong interest in purchasing a yellow GTS the he did a bunch of work on.
Any info would be appreciated
 

BOTTLEFED

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Wow, and I thought SVS was one of the top Viper tuners out there

I'd love to see what they have to say about this :eater:
 

PDCjonny

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I love to see rip off's get their just desserts.
These guys think you're just a sucker with money to burn.
Ask Macedo how the Viper tuning biz is going.:omg:
 

CAIN MKII

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It would be a good idea to make a black list of incompetent viper tuners to avoid at all cost.
 

BlueGTS

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The problem is, what percentage of Viper owners read this forum? 30%, 20%??? I would say a vast majority of owners never read any forums. That is how these shops stay in business. Think of H, he just built a huge brand new shop even though he is banned from here. It just shows that this is a small percentage of the total Viper population.
 
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