ATRO exhaust opinions, input

[DMan]

rblong, scratch that, got your PM's, thanks again for taking the time to share the info!

And people say the internet is only good for **** - huh, they must not be car enthusiasts.

Dave.

 

[zorroespanol]

I have myself asked this same question!! LOL

In an effort NOT to dogpile, I would like to ask "Racer" Robbie a question I have asked MANY times before, but never received a reply to.

Exactly what operations are performed in your advertised "blueprinting" of a hurst shifter?

 

[Racer Robbie]

Don't think I have ever heard anything bad about a Corsa system! Stick with a proven product.

Really? Why then are there so many other exhaust manufactures out there besides AtRo?

Bellanger
Corsa
Mopar
Borla
Bassini
Billy Boar
RT Cat Exhaust

The reason is that everyone has different ideas on what is the best sound is and that sound is subjective. Everyone has a different likes and dislikes when it come down to the sound of exhaust systems.

Oh I forgot to add that Corsa has the biggest advertising budget, therefor they outsell everyone else. That does not make them better. Just look at Mercruiser out drives in boats. They sell the most product, do the most advertising, and have the most problems.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Well, isn't it a Corsa what Robbie sells? of course, wrapped in fiberglass like a 50's hotrod, and price x2...

AtRo Racings exhaust systems are not Corsa systems and are not made from Corsa parts. Check the dyno results before you buy.

Maybe everyone here who has an opinion on our exhausts systems should contact the people who have bought and installed our systems and talk to them. I believe you will find that they all love our exhausts and say it is the best they have ever seen. Rick's experience at Pocono says it all.

As to everyone else who has negative comments about AtRo Racing I have to say that I have never spoken to any of them, They have never bought form us, and they have never seen our products on a viper, so how can they pass judgment on something they have never had any experience with. The above statement also applies to the people on Viper Alley who have posted negative comments. They have never bought form us, and they have never seen our products on a viper.

I would like to see them produce a list of names who have had any problem with our products as I have no problem supplying names of my loyal customers for any of you to contact.

Please feel free to call me anytime,

Robbie

AtRo Racing Products

 

[Kenny]

Well, isn't it a Corsa what Robbie sells? of course, wrapped in fiberglass like a 50's hotrod, and price x2...

AtRo Racings exhaust systems are not Corsa systems and are not made from Corsa parts. Check the dyno results before you buy.

Maybe everyone here who has an opinion on our exhausts systems should contact the people who have bought and installed our systems and talk to them. I believe you will find that they all love our exhausts and say it is the best they have ever seen. Rick's experience at Pocono says it all.

As to everyone else who has negative comments about AtRo Racing I have to say that I have never spoken to any of them, They have never bought form us, and they have never seen our products on a viper, so how can they pass judgment on something they have never had any experience with. The above statement also applies to the people on Viper Alley who have posted negative comments. They have never bought form us, and they have never seen our products on a viper.

I would like to see them produce a list of names who have had any problem with our products as I have no problem supplying names of my loyal customers for any of you to contact.

Please feel free to call me anytime,

Robbie

AtRo Racing Products

So are you going to answer the question about your "blueprinted" Hurst shifter?

 

[Finally got it !]

Well, isn't it a Corsa what Robbie sells? of course, wrapped in fiberglass like a 50's hotrod, and price x2...

AtRo Racings exhaust systems are not Corsa systems and are not made from Corsa parts. Check the dyno results before you buy.

Maybe everyone here who has an opinion on our exhausts systems should contact the people who have bought and installed our systems and talk to them. I believe you will find that they all love our exhausts and say it is the best they have ever seen. Rick's experience at Pocono says it all.

As to everyone else who has negative comments about AtRo Racing I have to say that I have never spoken to any of them, They have never bought form us, and they have never seen our products on a viper, so how can they pass judgment on something they have never had any experience with. The above statement also applies to the people on Viper Alley who have posted negative comments. They have never bought form us, and they have never seen our products on a viper.

I would like to see them produce a list of names who have had any problem with our products as I have no problem supplying names of my loyal customers for any of you to contact.

Please feel free to call me anytime,

Robbie

AtRo Racing Products

So are you going to answer the question about your "blueprinted" Hurst shifter?

Come on wise ass. A smurf touched the shifter before shipping......

 

[Racer Robbie]

In an effort NOT to dogpile, I would like to ask "Racer" Robbie a question I have asked MANY times before, but never received a reply to.

Exactly what operations are performed in your advertised "blueprinting" of a hurst shifter?

Kenny. I should not have to explain what "blueprinting" is to you, You should know. Why don't you call DC Performance and ask him how his ECM software works so you can copy his custom program.

Get real man!

 

[Kenny]

In an effort NOT to dogpile, I would like to ask "Racer" Robbie a question I have asked MANY times before, but never received a reply to.

Exactly what operations are performed in your advertised "blueprinting" of a hurst shifter?

Kenny. I should not have to explain what "blueprinting" is to you, You should know. Why don't you call DC Performance and ask him how his ECM software works so you can copy his custom program.

Get real man!

I know what blueprinting is, but I'd like to know what you do to your shifter. I bet if I bought one of your shifters and a Hurst from Summit and mic'd the dimensions and tested the spings, I wouldn't find anything special or "blueprinted" about yours.

So is this yet another piece of worthless marketing hype, or are you doing something that is actually a valuable sevice to the Viper community, and if so, why don't you want to talk about it?

 

[NoRice]

Don't think I have ever heard anything bad about a Corsa system! Stick with a proven product.

Really? Why then are there so many other exhaust manufactures out there besides AtRo?

Bellanger
Corsa
Mopar
Borla
Bassini
Billy Boar
RT Cat Exhaust

The reason is that everyone has different ideas on what is the best sound is and that sound is subjective. Everyone has a different likes and dislikes when it come down to the sound of exhaust systems.

Oh I forgot to add that Corsa has the biggest advertising budget, therefor they outsell everyone else. That does not make them better. Just look at Mercruiser out drives in boats. They sell the most product, do the most advertising, and have the most problems.

YES, really! I fail to see where you disprove what I said. I said go with Corsa and stick with a proven product as I have never heard anything bad about them. Post up someone who does not like the Corsa system. And by you posting all the other brands just gives someone more vendors to go with other than a system slapped together in your shop. More systems that are thoroughly researched, developed and tested on our cars than yours.

There is nothing to get upset about Atro, we are only pointing people to less expensive vendors who have more experience with the Viper and have a proven track record.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Even his instructions for "his" products are links. [*****]????

Well the jury has spoken so I have removed the exhaust and shifter installation links from my web site. I thought I was doing everyone here a favor in posting all the manufacture installation instructions that I could find. I thought this would be of help to my fellow VCA members no matter what brand of exhaust or shifter you buy. I guess I was wrong and you would rather spend untold hours trying to find these instructions on your own.I will bet though that just about everyone here has saved those links to their "favorites" folder. Shame on me, you can bet it will never happen again.

 

[Kenny]

Even his instructions for "his" products are links. [*****]????

Well the jury has spoken so I have removed the exhaust and shifter installation links from my web site. I thought I was doing everyone here a favor in posting all the manufacture installation instructions that I could find. I thought this would be of help to my fellow VCA members no matter what brand of exhaust or shifter you buy. I guess I was wrong and you would rather spend untold hours trying to find these instructions on your own.I will bet though that just about everyone here has saved those links to their "favorites" folder. Shame on me, you can bet it will never happen again.

How about instead of making your customers spend "untold hours" finding these instructions on their own, you create your own instructions for your product. Or is it easier to steal the instructions that one of your honest hardworking competitors spent "untold hours" putting together?

So is there ANY difference between your "blueprinted" Hurst shifter and the one we can order from Summit?

 

[Racer Robbie]

Ok guys - here is the deal - most of you know I bought the Atro Exhaust, plugs, thermostat, heat kit, and upgraded DC ECM (and yes I have caught hell about it - but I am learning). I finished all installs yesterday and drove a few hours. Bottom line is the products I received were high quality, mostly parts that can be purchased from several other vendors. They all worked as advertised. The exhaust does sound as advertised.

With that said there are two statements I will make -

1) There are no installation instructions for the pipes. ATRO has you download the Corsa instructions, which I thought was pretty unprofessional to use another vendors support. The pipes are not hard to install, but ATRO should have their own instructions for the pipes if they want to be in the parts business.

2) I believe by making some calls and investigating with other vendors you can purchase some of the ATRO components cheaper on your own.

All and all I am by no means unhappy with the performance of anything I purchased from ATRO, but if I had it to do over knowing what I know now I would have pieced it all together myself.

One more note - Anyone can build their own pipes a lot cheaper than purchasing from any of the so called "exhaust system" manufacturers. After all you just need some high flow cats, a couple of mufflers, some stainless pipe, some clamps and tips.

Bruce,

Thanks for the feedback and the constructive commments that you emailed to me. Once you have the conmplete package installed including the DC Reflash I sold you, I would love to have you post your comments on how your car runs, performs, and sounds for everyone to see on this forum.

Again thanks,

Robbie

 

[Kenny]

Ok guys - here is the deal - most of you know I bought the Atro Exhaust, plugs, thermostat, heat kit, and upgraded DC ECM (and yes I have caught hell about it - but I am learning). I finished all installs yesterday and drove a few hours. Bottom line is the products I received were high quality, mostly parts that can be purchased from several other vendors. They all worked as advertised. The exhaust does sound as advertised.

With that said there are two statements I will make -

1) There are no installation instructions for the pipes. ATRO has you download the Corsa instructions, which I thought was pretty unprofessional to use another vendors support. The pipes are not hard to install, but ATRO should have their own instructions for the pipes if they want to be in the parts business.

2) I believe by making some calls and investigating with other vendors you can purchase some of the ATRO components cheaper on your own.

All and all I am by no means unhappy with the performance of anything I purchased from ATRO, but if I had it to do over knowing what I know now I would have pieced it all together myself.

One more note - Anyone can build their own pipes a lot cheaper than purchasing from any of the so called "exhaust system" manufacturers. After all you just need some high flow cats, a couple of mufflers, some stainless pipe, some clamps and tips.

Bruce,

Thanks for the feedback and the constructive commments that you emailed to me. Once you have the conmplete package installed including the DC Reflash I sold you, I would love to have you post your comments on how your car runs, performs, and sounds for everyone to see on this forum.

Again thanks,

Robbie

Is this what you consider a postive endorsement in your world?

 

[Racer Robbie]

Guys, if I may: I have never bought anything from Atro and already have vendors that I personally prefer dealing with (JonB, etc.). That said, I think that unless somebody is conducting their business illegally or ripping people off (never filling paid orders, etc.), that attacking them personally is out of bounds. How they have their business set up can certainly be subject to review/criticism, however attacking somebody personally is strictly against website policy.

<u>Everybody</u> sells other people's stuff. Summit, Pep Boys, PartsRack, AutoZone, Atro, Zen Garage, etc. All mark it up from what they paid - or they wouldn't be in business. Some just mark it up less than others. If Atro is going to his local Kmart, buying individual parts, and then selling "package" deals as his business then so be it. Either he will succeed or he won't. Feel free to constructively criticize his customer service, his website, his instructions, or his prices. Assuming you have first hand experience as his customer. Calling him a "*********" is not only way out of line, but against website policy. Period.

The bottom line is that good businesses succeed, poor ones fail. Throwing arbritary insults out accomplishes nothing. The ONLY person on this thread that has an "expert" (customer) opinion is <u>rblong</u>. And his opinion certainly speaks for itself. The rest are just dog-piling. Please give it a rest.

I want to take the opportunity to thank you for your honesty.

Robbie

 

[Kenny]

Guys, if I may: I have never bought anything from Atro and already have vendors that I personally prefer dealing with (JonB, etc.). That said, I think that unless somebody is conducting their business illegally or ripping people off (never filling paid orders, etc.), that attacking them personally is out of bounds. How they have their business set up can certainly be subject to review/criticism, however attacking somebody personally is strictly against website policy.

<u>Everybody</u> sells other people's stuff. Summit, Pep Boys, PartsRack, AutoZone, Atro, Zen Garage, etc. All mark it up from what they paid - or they wouldn't be in business. Some just mark it up less than others. If Atro is going to his local Kmart, buying individual parts, and then selling "package" deals as his business then so be it. Either he will succeed or he won't. Feel free to constructively criticize his customer service, his website, his instructions, or his prices. Assuming you have first hand experience as his customer. Calling him a "*********" is not only way out of line, but against website policy. Period.

The bottom line is that good businesses succeed, poor ones fail. Throwing arbritary insults out accomplishes nothing. The ONLY person on this thread that has an "expert" (customer) opinion is <u>rblong</u>. And his opinion certainly speaks for itself. The rest are just dog-piling. Please give it a rest.

I want to take the opportunity to thank you for your honesty.

Robbie

Exactly, he said that rblong's opinion speaks for itself---and I think it does.

 

[BlueGTS]

Don't think I have ever heard anything bad about a Corsa system! Stick with a proven product.

Really? Why then are there so many other exhaust manufactures out there besides AtRo?

Bellanger
Corsa
Mopar
Borla
Bassini
Billy Boar
RT Cat Exhaust

How can I get my hands on one of those Billy Boar exhausts?

 

[Joseph Dell]

[/QUOTE]

I want to take the opportunity to thank you for your honesty.

Robbie

[/QUOTE]

2 tiered distribution is different than buying from 2-tiered distribution and then marking up something to a 3rd tier. Jegs, Summit, etc... buy as an authorized distributor for their product. Can you say the same about your products?

 

[Kenny]

You know what just occurred to me that made me laugh?

By listing all of those exhaust manufacturers in his pouty little post, Racer Robbie just basically ensured that anytime some newbie comes along and searches about any of them, this thread will come up.

I bet he would pay to have this thread deleted.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Dave,

here is a list of what Rblong Bought from me.

1 - A 3" Exhaust system from the cat back utilizing the crossover with polished exhaust tips. He will be removing the crossover when he installs his supercharger at a future date.

2 - Rt High Flow replacement metal substrate cats

3 - heat wrap and insulation for the exhaust system and the viper cockpit

4 - New ECM programmed by D C Performance including a new thermostat

5 - Autolite iridium spark plugs

6 - Green Filters to replace the K &amp; N filters that came with his K &amp; N Filtercharger kit that he had already bought and installed.

7 - I also told him how to modify the K &amp; N filter to make it flow better.

I believe that he has not had time to install the new DC ECM I supplied him. I have asked him to post on this forum how he feels the viper runs after he installs the ECM.

Robbie

 

[Racer Robbie]

I want to take the opportunity to thank you for your honesty.

Robbie

[/QUOTE]

2 tiered distribution is different than buying from 2-tiered distribution and then marking up something to a 3rd tier. Jegs, Summit, etc... buy as an authorized distributor for their product. Can you say the same about your products?

[/QUOTE]

Joe,

Distributors also sell to dealers. I am a distributor for some of our products and a dealer for others. As a small speed shop I can not afford to be a distributor for everything. I am a small speed shop , with a storefront in Branford, that employs a few experienced fabricators. I also have a separate fabrication shop nearby that specializes in stainless steel fabrication. I have a CT Resale number and a Federal ID Number and have been in business since 1979.

 

[Kenny]

Dave,

here is a list of what Rblong Bought from me.

1 - A 3" Exhaust system from the cat back utilizing the crossover with polished exhaust tips. He will be removing the crossover when he installs his supercharger at a future date.

2 - Rt High Flow replacement metal substrate cats

3 - heat wrap and insulation for the exhaust system and the viper cockpit

4 - New ECM programmed by D C Performance including a new thermostat

5 - Autolite iridium spark plugs

6 - Green Filters to replace the K &amp; N filters that came with his K &amp; N Filtercharger kit that he had already bought and installed.

7 - I also told him how to modify the K &amp; N filter to make it flow better.

I believe that he has not had time to install the new DC ECM I supplied him. I have asked him to post on this forum how he feels the viper runs after he installs the ECM.

Robbie

Do you have him utilizing the stock crossover? If so, why would you allow one of your customers to go to a 3" exhaust that necks back down to 2.5" stock crossover? Why would you even recommend a client keep a crossover at all? It adds heat and weight, provides significant restriction over a 3" side out exhaust due to the additional length and decreased diameter and even DC (who only used the crossover for sound purposes) has deleted it on the next generation of the Viper. So why do you recommend it?

 

[Racer Robbie]

As I have stated in past posts from last year I have no intention of wasting my time answering malicious personal attacks from you Kenny or any of the following impolite people. After the comments you have made on Viper Alley about me you, 2002_Viper_GTS_ACR, and Zorroespanol are not worth the time of day. It is to bad that you, Zen garage, have decided to jump on the band wagon as I have never talked to you, or for that matter, any of you. You will all be ignored in the future.

Kenny
Zorroespanol
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
zen garage


Good day and enjoy your hateful life together,

Robbie

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Okay, since this thread keeps rising to the top I will throw in some quick comments:

1. Personal attacks are not allowed on the site. Period. Anybody throws them out, whether it be from an individual or a company, will be warned accordingly. After the warning comes a strike vote with two week suspension. Second strike and you are out, plain and simple.

2. Legitimate questions are encouraged, especially from customers and/or prospects. Quite frankly, Kenny's last question seems pretty legitimate to me.

3. What is not encouraged is people tearing down another's business practices without first hand experience. Unless that business is getting customer complaints or is knowingly ripping people off, slamming a vendor for making a buck - no matter how well or poorly they do so, isn't really fair game. Let's face it, if you really wanted to do your homework you could find the cheapest vendor for every single part and then slam all the rest. "Donut gasket from Fred's Parts? What a rip off! You can buy it for 23 cents less at Al's Goodies!"

It seems that a few folks are going after this vendor for no other reason that to stir up trouble. Apparently they have not done a single bit of business with him or even exchanged any e-mails with him directly. While it would be one thing if he was blatantly ripping people off (selling parts off their cars, etc.), what he is doing is 100% legitimate business. I won't comment on how well or how poorly, as I have never done business with him personally. As for conjecture and commentary on his general business practices, I think those discussions are better left to other forums on other sites.

Of course other that #1 above, this is all just my personal opinion...

 

[MikeR]

Do you have him utilizing the stock crossover? If so, why would you allow one of your customers to go to a 3" exhaust that necks back down to 2.5" stock crossover? Why would you even recommend a client keep a crossover at all? It adds heat and weight, provides significant restriction over a 3" side out exhaust due to the additional length and decreased diameter and even DC (who only used the crossover for sound purposes) has deleted it on the next generation of the Viper. So why do you recommend it?

That is strange. Why would one want the stock crossover. My buddy just installed one to see if he could quiet his car down a little. We wnet out and did a test run. He used to pull my car. Now after putting crossover back in, I was dead even with him and would start to nudge ahead as we shifted.

Like Kenny said, we all have seen that Dodge is doing away with crossover on 2008. So maybe some will use a crossover on there exhaust system to help quiet down a noisy, raspy system, but if you go with a Corsa, there wont be a crossover. You wont need it, the system has no drone,sounds great, less weight and makes power.

 

[zorroespanol]

As I have stated in past posts from last year I have no intention of wasting my time answering malicious personal attacks from you Kenny or any of the following impolite people. After the comments you have made on Viper Alley about me you, 2002_Viper_GTS_ACR, and Zorroespanol are not worth the time of day. It is to bad that you, Zen garage, have decided to jump on the band wagon as I have never talked to you, or for that matter, any of you. You will all be ignored in the future.

Kenny
Zorroespanol
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
zen garage


Good day and enjoy your hateful life together,

Robbie

WFT is your problem????

I was trying to stay on the sideline and not laugh at how YET AGAIN people are mocking your "Speed Shop" and "knowledge" (or lack of) about Vipers.

If you are angry that we've exposed your joke of a business it is not our fault, but yours. You are the one DELUSIONAL ENOUGH to try to sell performance parts to people who know about them 100 times more than you!!!

We only advice the newbies when they ask for it, such as this thread. Luckily for anyone with a brain, they will go back and read about you before they even buy AIR FRESHENER from you. That way they will read over and over how you've constantly embarrassed yourself by proving repeatedly that you know about vipers as much as I know about fertilizer.

It is not our fault that anyone that has spent longer than 2 days on these boards WILL NEVER BUY FROM YOU. The blame is all on your side.

 

[1DumpedViper]

Lets all pray about this......

 

[NoRice]

Okay, since this thread keeps rising to the top I will throw in some quick comments:

1. Personal attacks are not allowed on the site. Period. Anybody throws them out, whether it be from an individual or a company, will be warned accordingly. After the warning comes a strike vote with two week suspension. Second strike and you are out, plain and simple.

2. Legitimate questions are encouraged, especially from customers and/or prospects. Quite frankly, Kenny's last question seems pretty legitimate to me.

3. What is not encouraged is people tearing down another's business practices without first hand experience. Unless that business is getting customer complaints or is knowingly ripping people off, slamming a vendor for making a buck - no matter how well or poorly they do so, isn't really fair game. Let's face it, if you really wanted to do your homework you could find the cheapest vendor for every single part and then slam all the rest. "Donut gasket from Fred's Parts? What a rip off! You can buy it for 23 cents less at Al's Goodies!"

It seems that a few folks are going after this vendor for no other reason that to stir up trouble. Apparently they have not done a single bit of business with him or even exchanged any e-mails with him directly. While it would be one thing if he was blatantly ripping people off (selling parts off their cars, etc.), what he is doing is 100% legitimate business. I won't comment on how well or how poorly, as I have never done business with him personally. As for conjecture and commentary on his general business practices, I think those discussions are better left to other forums on other sites.

Of course other that #1 above, this is all just my personal opinion...

I agree on most points Chris, but when this shop is blatantly overcharging the people on this site, I think it should be looked at. Why would you want someone on the site in a "supporting vendor" status who is obviously gouging the members on this site? Take for instance his shifter lowering bolts. He charges $149.95 for a bolt kit to lower the shifter 1" or 2". Thats outrageous when you can buy the same thing from SVS for $25! The skip shift eliminator he charges $59.95 on his website. You can buy the same thing for $29.99 from Jegs or Summit. These are just a couple of the items where they are blantantly gouging the members of this forum. I may be naive, but I would assume the website would only want to associate with companies that are here to help the members of this site, not bend them over a barrel. Hell I could almost take everything on Atro's site, buy the stuff from other reputable vendors on this site and still sell it for a profit and be less then Atro is!

I will say one thing in their defense, at least they stopped spamming almost every thread on the board like they used to do.

 

[DMan]

If I can attempt closure of the thread ... lol

Thanks again to all on the input.

Robbie, thanks for the info, and again you've been responsive to questions &amp; as for price you were responsive to discounting a bit too, so overall pretty good. You've got a bit of a marketing challenge though it seems here.

Anyway, Bruce was very helpful on the heart of my question and the exhaust system itself.

I'm still shopping and considering options, but I think we can let the thread drift off into cyber-heaven.

Dave