Autoform Rollbar

[Vipera Russelli]

There are two kinds of Viper owners that put their cars on race tracks; those that HAVE crashed and those that WILL crash. Which one are you? And when you do crash are you going to try to blame someone else for your mistake or say "that's racing" and get out your check book and start getting the car fixed.

Um..., I think I’m missing your point here. The roll bar is to protect me and my passenger from my mistakes and those of others. It’s not a matter of finding or assessing blame, it a simple question of how much confidence in my roll bar is justified. I do fully expect to cause a crash or get caught up in one on the track sooner or later (hopefully later). That’s life. For the damage to my car, I have track insurance. For avoiding damage to me and my passenger, I have safety gear, including an AF roll bar.

The AF roll bar looks mighty strong to me and it certainly has survived some accidents discussed on this board. And clearly it is A LOT stronger than the stock sport hoops. But I’m not an engineer and don’t know really how much faith it deserves beyond that. What I do know is that yesterday I was denied entry into a track school (not a time trial or a race) at VIR hosted by the Tarheel Sports Car Club ( http://www.thscc.com/timetrial/index.html ) specifically because my Autoform roll bar didn’t meet SCCA specs, which requires among other things that the roll bar have a diagonal brace in the back. Here is are two example of overkill SCCA-compliant roll bars for a Miata.

http://www.gomiata.com/doublehoop.html
http://www.gomiata.com/singlehoop.html

Note the following disclaimer for these roll bars, which is conspicuously printed on the bottom of every page of the installation instructions:

“WARNING: This product does not guarantee the safety of the occupant in the case of a rollover
or other vehicle accident. This rollbar has been designed and tested following the intent of the
SCCA and FIA rollbar guidelines, but has not undergone automotive industry testing. The owner
assumes the responsibility for proper mounting and padding of the rollbar. Always wear your
seatbelt and follow safe driving practices.”

That’s just a wee bit different and inspires a bit more confidence IMHO than Autoform's admission/disclaimer:

"Roll bar not designed for roll-over protection”

What was worse, however, is that the director of the club, Mark Vitacco, after consulting with the club’s tech director, Chris Schemell, said that he wouldn’t feel safe in my car with the Autoform roll bar after having looked at its construction on Autoform’s website. He said it needed a diagonal support in the back to keep it from collapsing. He wasn’t concerned about the disclaimer, but said he understood why Autoform posted it, given the roll bar’s construction. Maybe Mark, Chris and Tarheels have too high of standards. Maybe they are worried about being sued or trying to keep their insurance costs low. Maybe they just don’t understand the AF roll bar and are mistaken about it not being safe enough. Personally, I’ll be the first to admit that I really don’t know either way and I certainly do hope they are wrong.

I have discuss this post with TonyAF. He said it was the first time to his knowledge that anyone had been critical of the roll bar and that I should have confidence in its performance. He points out that different car clubs have different standards, and points to Viper Days, who as you know, is satisfied with the protection afforded by the roll bar. His points are good ones.

I don't know if the AF bar is good enough for the track or not. Clearly the answer is not so clear as it depends on who you ask. The answer is a matter of opinion. As for me, I haven't formed an opinion yet, but I'm working on it.

Thoughts?

 

[knuk]

I'm pretty sure Autoform doesn't have enough extra cash sitting around to be able to afford to take a few SRT's out and roll them.

No, I am sure they don't either. But there are other tests that can be done without having to roll a car. Material testing, design etc etc.
Who designed the AF roll bar? Under what guidelines? What qualifications did the designer(s) have??

 

[Vipera Russelli]

Good news on opinions regarding the Autoform roll bar for the SRT-10.

In the process of working with Krause and England ( http://www.krauseandengland.com ) to determine either what it would take to get my Autoform roll bar up to SCCA SOLO1 spec, or to fabricate an entirely new roll bar for such purposes, it was decided by Dave Blum of K&E, in consultation with Mark Vitacco of TarHeels, upon closer inspection of the Autoform roll bar that it does indeed look good enough for my participation in the TarHeels event this coming weekend, SO LONG AS I install in two-inch seat-lowering assemblies (since the one-inch still doesn’t get my helmet low enough -- I’m 5’9”). Further, although the roll bar doesn’t meet the literal configuration specs for SOLO1 events, I have been advised to send pictures into the SCCA solo board to get their ruling on its suitability for such event use, since it might actually qualify for an exception. I’ll do just that.

One of the problems with the initial decision regarding the roll bar is that the pictures on Autoform’s site of the roll bar uninstalled, and the pictures of the roll bar fully installed, don’t show that there is any substantial triangulation in its design which is what adds strength (which is what the SCCA is trying to accomplish by requiring an off-plane support from the main hoop forward or backward). But the Autoform bar does have triangulation, but instead of being a bar connected to a main hoop as required by SCCA rules, it is the outside braces of the hoops that provide the triangulation (note in the picture below how the outside braces are on a different plane then the braces that are bolted to the bulkhead). Also, a diagonal support to protect the bar in the event of a side impact is generally called for by the SCCA, although in the case of the Viper such a support might not be possible, which is something the SCCA takes into consideration. Finally, the SCCA favors a single hoop instead of two hoops, since if you roll over in the dirt two hoops might dig in more than a single hoop. Nevertheless, the SCCA has made exception before for twin hoops (and that cross bar that blocks my mirror view so much actually helps in this respect). I’ll keep you posted.

Looks like the “yea” opinions have it—my research indicates that the Autoform roll bar is an excellent roll bar, at least in my opinion! K&E acts as the technical advisors to the Virginia International Raceway on matters such as roll bars, just so you know. I'm in good company.

JonB -- I sent you an email ordering the 2-inch lowering kits for both sides.

TonyAF and the rest of Autoform -- Nice work; great product!

 

[Kai SRT10]

That's good news. Please keep us informed on the progress.

Kai

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Lots of speculation or conjecture all the same but no factual meaningful information! We have no the structural rollover capability or comparisons actual or theoretical based on the designs, test and/or materials.

If you are going to be frisky then you may want a Autoform roll bar or equivalent.

 

[BigCarrot]

I can't believe Dodge would actually produce a 500hp car that has no roll over protection!

 

[Kai SRT10]

It would be great if the folks at Autoform could get some sort of "official" SCCA sanction for their roll bar, kind of like what they have for Viper Days events. That would certainly make things easier for those of us who are trying to compete in time trials. An SCCA blessing would be a "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" which would make it lots easier to get the bar approved for other events as well.

When I was going through the tech process for an open road race, the folks at Autoform sent me some install pictures and specifications to help me convince the tech group that the bar was safe even though it didn't meet the literal wording of the tech requirements. Just getting the SCCA to sign off on the design would go a long way to easing these concerns (and would probably help Autoform sell more bars.)

 

[BigCarrot]

Very true!

 

[Viper X]

Hey Guys,

The photos on page one (black roll bar) don't quite match the photos on page two (silver roll bars). Are the silver ones the first gen, black second? I'd buy the product if it didn't block my rear view and contained the crossover bar below the trim as it appears in the photo on page one. Am I incorrect here?

 

[Vipera Russelli]

The photos on page one (black roll bar) don't quite match the photos on page two (silver roll bars). Are the silver ones the first gen, black second? I'd buy the product if it didn't block my rear view and contained the crossover bar below the trim as it appears in the photo on page one. Am I incorrect here?

Yes, you have it correct. The first generation of the Autoform roll bar for the SRT has the high cross-bar between the hoops, while the second generation does not.