Big Brake Dilema

Discussion in 'Tire , Wheel, Brake and Suspension' started by Jance GTS, Apr 24, 2010.

  1. KNG SNKE

    KNG SNKE Viper Owner

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    Those lines are good. Your most likely not going to cut it close enough to cut too much off. You would have to make a conscious effort to do so.
     
  2. Jance GTS

    Jance GTS Viper Owner

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    Thanks for the picture Dave! I just wanted to make sure before I cut anything off. I didn't want to start a thread saying "I cut off to much on my spindle, now what?" :lmao:

    Oh and what kind of thread locker would you recommend? I have some red stuff but I forget what it's called, I'll have to look tonight. Thanks again for the help!
     
  3. Jance GTS

    Jance GTS Viper Owner

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    Ok I bolted my brackets in place and they are slighted crooked because I didn't cut off the spindle cleanly. It's not real bad, but it will be something "looks" wise that will bother me. Will this affect the braking? There is about an 1/8" gap (or less) at the bottom where I cut off the tabs.

    I don't want to grind down to much because I would like to have the bracket resting on the spindle without any gaps. These brackets are extremely close to the shafts but they do not rub, but they do make it difficult to use a torque wrench on the top bolt. Thanks!

    I FAILED! :crazy2:
     

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  4. vancouver-gts

    vancouver-gts Viper Owner

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    Jance , I'd grind off more so the bracket won't interfere with the knuckle !
     
  5. 02 Graphite GTS

    02 Graphite GTS Viper Owner

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    Hey Jance,
    As long as the bracket fits flush on the backside and the bolts thread in WITHOUT and binding, you are fine. If there is a gap between the bracket and the spindle, it really doesn't matter, as the stregnth is not dependent on the bracket getting support from spindle in that area.

    Once the rotor and caliper are on, you'll never see the small gap on yours so I wouldn't worry about it and feel like you have to make it all even.

    As for the u-joint knuckle on the back side, yes it does make it difficult to get in there and torque. You can rotate the knuckle to get some clearance and a short extension on the socket may help too.

    Looks good so far !
    Make sure that you have clearance between the wheel and essentially everything else (caliper, bolt heads, brake lines and wheel weights).
     
  6. 02 Graphite GTS

    02 Graphite GTS Viper Owner

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    I did not use any thread locker on mine...... over 4 years now and no issues.

    If you have Loctite Red, that stuff is great IF YOU DON'T WANT TO TAKE IT APART without an extreme amount of muscle, heat and patience. If you use anything, I would say a small dab of Loctite Blue.
     
  7. Jance GTS

    Jance GTS Viper Owner

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    Thanks a lot for the replies! I'm just a perfectionist and it's the little things that bug me the most LOL.

    I'm going with 20's in the rear so clearance won't be a problem :)

    I'll go ahead and grind on them some more just to get it lined up better. I go to car shows all the time and I hate when people say "that's good enough" and call it good. I'm still waiting on my e-brake to arrive, so i have time to do this. Thanks again!

    I know I will need help understand the Wilwood PV when I get there.
     
  8. dave6666

    dave6666 Enthusiast

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    As was said there shouldn't be any concern about cleaning up that cut by removing more material.

    I guess I have to give myself a pat on the back though because that cut I posted the pic of was set the saw down and blow the chips off. Zero cleanup. I drank heavily in response to that hard work I'm sure LOL.
     
  9. Jance GTS

    Jance GTS Viper Owner

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    From what I have heard... is that you don't stop drinking :rolaugh:

    I guess this is what I get for using grandpa's old hack saw to cut this off with :crazy2:
     
  10. RTTTTed

    RTTTTed Viper Owner

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    The Proportining valve is to lower the brake fluid pressure to the rear brakes and prevent early lockup.

    You want to be able to lockup the front brakes without locking up the rears. Adjust the valve so that you can lock up the fronts and full pedal pressure will also lock the rears. That way you can 'threshold' brake with the rear brakes not quite as "tight" as the fronts. This setting allows you options when doing emergency stops.

    Make certain that the rears do not lock-up first as that would cause you to lose control with the rear wheels skidding the back of the car sideways. 80% of your braking is done with the front brakes.

    This is presuming that only YOU drive the car and you don't panic stop.

    At least this is the way I set my car up.

    Ted
     
  11. Jance GTS

    Jance GTS Viper Owner

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    Thanks Ted. So basically the PV is a "feel" thing that you just have to adjust to your until you get the fronts to lock up first? Sounds simple enough.
     
  12. ROGUE

    ROGUE Enthusiast

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    Somewhat, it's also dependent on what you're using the car for and even changes based on the car setup and tire selection.

    If you're not familiar with the sound and feel of threshold braking then I would play it safe by dialing in less rear bias. This will keep you safe in the event you get in a condition where the rear end unloads and help prevent rear lockup.

    If the fronts lock you flat spot the tires but can generally recover if you use your head. If the rears lock up you have about .001 second to react before the car pirouettes down the road.

    I would HIGHLY recommend hitting up a driving school and learn how YOU like YOUR car setup. We all drive differently at different skill levels. What works great for another driver might be horrific for me etc. Heck look at the setup PMUM ran on his ACR, toe out rear? I can only imagine how twitchy and unstable it would be for well, anyone but him. But he got it done. :headbang:


    Personally, I would ditch the stock pads and get something with some bite while you're in there.
     
  13. RTTTTed

    RTTTTed Viper Owner

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    As before I also recommend a high performance driving course, but yes you want to lessen the brake pressure to the rear so that the front brakes lock up first. The Vipers before 2001 all had low to no rear brake pressure and suffered badly because the rears did not operate enough to significantly add to the stopping power of the front brakes. My 98 GTS has Tom's big piston rear calipers and the 40mm pistons that Tom installed in the rear calipers (36mm stock) added enough pressure because oif their larger size that the brake balance was perfect. Fronts would lock up first and then the rears. Stopping with the front brakes almost locked up would generate .8G forces of stopping stock and 1.0 Gs with Toms' rear calipers. Your car has bigger brakes all around so you need a custom rear brake pressure adjustment to the rear.

    Rogue says to adjust your brakes to your driving, but for max stopping I would say adjust your rears to lock up immediately after your fronts and then get some lessons and adjust your driving to match up to maximium braking effectiveness.

    I completely removed the rear proportioning valve spring from my 2000 ACR and added slotted lighweight rotors for increased braking. It works great. Tom's rear caliper upgrade is something I may add in the future.

    Ted
     
  14. Jance GTS

    Jance GTS Viper Owner

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    I just took my 2008 SRT calipers with my Hawk HPS pads to the local brake shop to have them changed out. They want to know what is the best way to remove and install the new pads?

    Do you drive out the pins so the "clips" holding in the pads come out? Also I've heard that you should grease the metal contact points on the pads so they don't make any noise?

    I know these sounds like dumb questions but I don't want them or myself to screw it up. I hope to get this down in the next 2 hours. Thanks!
     
  15. 02 Graphite GTS

    02 Graphite GTS Viper Owner

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    Jance,
    Use a proper size drift pin to "drive" the pin out. Pin will only come out one direction, towards the center of the car.
    After the first pin is out the metal spreader clip will come right out.

    I would NOT use grease on your pads ! They will get very hot and the grease will melt and then you will have big problems.


    **** is it just me....Shouldn't your brake shop know this?? and if they don't know how to swap out pads, I'm not sure I would want them working on my car. ****

    Changing the pads are very simple and you shouldn't "pay" someone to do it....do it yourself. Make sure you (or they) put the pads in the right direction.
     
  16. Jance GTS

    Jance GTS Viper Owner

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    Thanks for the heads up. I would think they should know this but the guy I talked to wasn't the one doing the work. I have the calipers off the car since I'm swapping out my gen 2 with gen 3. This is pretty much the norm with small town service. I won't go to the dealership because they have never helped me with anything in the past on other vehicles and they probably wouldn't do the swap anyways. Thanks!
     
  17. Jance GTS

    Jance GTS Viper Owner

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    Ok pads are installed, brackets have been straighten up and now I have a few brake line fittings that need to be replaced.

    I purchased my double flaring kit and I've already cut off one of the old fittings.

    [​IMG]

    I just bought my new fittings but they are just slightly a different kind of fitting? The one's I bought are a Pipe Line Nut? I don't think they gave me the right ones? :dunno:

    I asked two different brake shops in town about fixing these for me and both told me they can't fix them and I would have to buy new lines... Hard to believe a brake shop has never had to replace a fitting... EVER :crazy2:
     

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  18. GTS Dean

    GTS Dean Viper Owner

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    Use the aftermarket nuts and don't worry. Test fit the long and short nuts into the female fitting and decide which one you think will work best for you.

    Go back to the auto parts store and buy a new piece of brake tubing the same size as you will need. Practice making double-flares until you feel like a pro, THEN do your Viper.

    When installing new pads, you will have to force the pistons back into the calipers to make room for the thicker linings. Use the old pads stuck in end-ways at the center of the caliper so that you contact both pistons and pry them back.

    When you're ready to roll again, PRESS THE BRAKE PEDAL _HARD_ A COUPLE OF TIMES TO SEAT THE PISTONS AGAINST THE PADS BEFORE DRIVING.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2010
  19. Jance GTS

    Jance GTS Viper Owner

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    This is offically the slowest big brake install on a Viper ever! I've been waiting on different parts and I've been out of town. I had a guy at Napa fix my rounded off nut so I installed the brake line tonight.

    The e-brake pad rubs the rotor. I've adjusted it in and out and it still rubs? The e-brake bracket is installed correctly because you can't misalign it. When I installed my rotor I used a small amount of grease around the wheel studs for the metal on metal contact with the hub because I was told it would keep it from making noise? Surely that little bit of grease isn't making the rotor off balance? But maybe it is?

    I just don't understand why this is so difficult... The parking brake is not set and I do not have the rotor bolted down yet. I've only held the rotor against the hub as I turn it. It's completely flat but one or the other side of the ebrake pad rubs?
     

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  20. vancouver-gts

    vancouver-gts Viper Owner

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    Jance , just installed my front brakes tonight and most likely finish the rear brake setup this weekend. You did get the e-brake setup instructions , right ? It says to turn the small adjusting bolt to achieve 0.005 clearence between the fixed pad and rotor surface. It might still rub for a few miles ,before the pads set in .Let you know how mine works out.
     
  21. Jance GTS

    Jance GTS Viper Owner

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    You are correct, I did get the instructions. I've already adjusted it in both directions and it still rubs. I'll be out of town again this weekend and I really hope to finally finish this next week!

    On to the next headache :smirk:

    BTW my rear calipers are still crooked even after I smoothed out the spindle again?
     
  22. Jance GTS

    Jance GTS Viper Owner

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    Noon time bump.
     
  23. dave6666

    dave6666 Enthusiast

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    What is holding the rotor on right now? It will flop around with the wheel off you have to bolt it down for adjusting and checking calipers.
     

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