Is the the New Viper OBD III - privacy concerns

[V10 ICBM]

All - is the new Viper going to be OBD III compliant? If so I would think we all should sign a consent for invasion of personal privacy before accepting delivery of the car.

 

[Yellow32]

Summary: No, the 2008 Viper will not have OBD III

Notes collected from around the web...

An OBD-III specification is in the regulatory development phase. Information on the content of this specification is limited. Some have speculated that OBD-III will include the capability for a vehicle to report emissions violations automatically using some sort of radio transmitter.

Get ready for OBD III (On-Board-Diagnostics) This could be the next Federal automotive mandate and may include GPS you know like "On Star" to keep you safe and I like it in that form it is a subscription and is done with your consent, next coupled with a cell phone modem it reports your whereabouts, again OK with prior consent, a new wrinkle there will be automatic uploads of engine data to the Feds, this is where things can get nasty. 1. Automatic speeding tickets. 2. Failure to perform needed maintenance they could fine you and/or disable your vehicle until you comply. 3. They could decide you drive too much and levy a heavy tax. It's Orwell's 1984 all over again.

OBD III is being worked out, be involved talk to your Congress and Senate Representatives.

-J

 

[Joseph Dell]

just go disconnect it and see if your brakes work.

But seriously... there isn't much we can do about it. the little black boxes in cars are already here!

 

[TedK]

If that is what OBD III will be, then I for one will not be buying any more new vehicles. Couple that with GOV Arnold's carbon-reduction plans(Ethanol), which will probably be a national issue before too long, the future of hot-rodding, etc. looks to be in for a change for the worse. Remember leaded fuel? Can't get that anymore. Maybe someday soon non-ethanol fuel will be history also. What to do with all the old cars then?....Convert them?? Hard to believe your own car would rat on you. No thanks.

 

[Finally got it !]

How would it know if you were using it for a track event......... etc

 

[MikeR]

How would it know if you were using it for a track event......... etc

GPS probably. Could tell you were on interstae etc. I hope not. Too much Big Brother already.

 

[viperbilliam]

Before we get too far with individual privacy rights, remember that driving on public roads is not a right; it's a privilege granted by the government and that what comes out of the tailpipe affects the general public's air that they are forced to breathe! The general driving public is getting too big so things are going to get tougher. The black box - that's probably a result of too many bad drivers on the roads - I don't like it but it does help the insurance companies sort out the lies and get the ugly truth and perhaps bring down the cost of accidents. How that information is managed is another issue; it can lead to abuses that we are afraid of but eventually through legislation we curb abuses through restrictions (works both ways).

 

[V10 ICBM]

Well -
I am not sure if we can agree that its just inevitable to have one's car tracking all my movements, speed (ie worry about DE days, safety traing - warranty claims), control over ignition system (your car could be remotely shut down car for "emission reasons", travel to see a friend, travel on private property.).

Part of paying for defending a free society IS to be allowed to be free. Your argument that this is necessary is the same one onother former soviet republic used some time ago before Ronnie stood his ground and they bailed.

I don't think anyone should be blase on this issue - frankly, its a reason to buy older cars. By the way, the information/data is not infalible because there IS no witness, its just some data file which can be deleted or amended like a "photo" can be with photoshop - only easier.

The Black box would likely shut down your car before you could make a mistake by breaking the law - think of it like cruise control that you do not set yourself.
What a wonderfull option.

 

[Yellow32]

Maybe someday soon non-ethanol fuel will be history also. What to do with all the old cars then?....Convert them?? Hard to believe your own car would rat on you. No thanks.

Don't you worry about Ethanol having any sort of impact. There is simply no way to get 'enough of it' to make it the standard.

The US currently uses about 7Billion barrels of oil a year and that converts to roughly 196Billion gallons of fuel (of course only 40% of that is for transportation)....of which, 78Billion gallons is actually used for transportation (gas/diesel).

Total Ethanol production (remember, ethanonl contains less potential energy so a gallow of it does not go as far as a gallon of gasoline), for the entire world it is around 9Billion gallons...about 11% of just what the USA would use...if you factor in the entire world needs there is just no way enough grain/plants will be harvested each year to make ethanol.

Not to mention that plant production (farming) for ethanol takes away from FOOD production... no way that's going to fly.

And because ethanol is less efficient than gasoline it will take more of it to travel the same distance which means instead of 78Billion gallons we would need 90Billion or more...

Here's a link to some details (my details above are more conservative than this article's are)

http://www.energybulletin.net/21064.html

-J

 

[Fast Freddy]

OBD-3 can bite me. i will just ride my turbocharged motorcyle around guzzlin leaded race gas and give the finger to the nazis while i am at it. motorcycles don't have any form of OBD whatsoever....... so again i say BITE ME

 

[Warfang]

OBD-3 can bite me. i will just ride my turbocharged motorcyle around guzzlin leaded race gas and give the finger to the nazis while i am at it. motorcycles don't have any form of OBD whatsoever.......

....yet

 

[Camfab]

I remember the 70's when the last performance cars were built. Smog devices killed everything. Remember? " I'll never buy a new car again, the muscle car era is over". No more good gas, just that lousy unleaded. A car will never run ******* unleaded! Uh wait a minute, all those EVIL government mandates made cars faster than ever, more fuel efficient, and better air quality. It's the same old story being played out again. Ethanol is great from a performance stand point, and long before Ethanol is an issue, your going to get your @$$ handed to you by an electric car. The future is full of great potential, I for one am excited about the prospects of new technology.

 

[slaughterj]

Before we get too far with individual privacy rights, remember that driving on public roads is not a right; it's a privilege granted by the government

That is such a load of $hit forced down your throats by the government. It is us the taxpayers that are paying for those roads, or did you forget that little detail? Or perhaps you forgot that the constitution grants you the right to freedom of travel, and driving by car is the main means of such in the U.S.? Keep on believing the crap your fed by the government, that's the way they like it. Then when they collect your gun and tell you that having a gun is a privilege not a right notwithstanding the fundamental right to defend yourself, you'll think it's A-OK!

 

[Fast Freddy]

Before we get too far with individual privacy rights, remember that driving on public roads is not a right; it's a privilege granted by the government

That is such a load of $hit forced down your throats by the government. It is us the taxpayers that are paying for those roads, or did you forget that little detail? Or perhaps you forgot that the constitution grants you the right to freedom of travel, and driving by car is the main means of such in the U.S.? Keep on believing the crap your fed by the government, that's the way they like it. Then when they collect your gun and tell you that having a gun is a privilege not a right notwithstanding the fundamental right to defend yourself, you'll think it's A-OK!

agreed

 

[ASPIRATIONS]

Before we get too far with individual privacy rights, remember that driving on public roads is not a right; it's a privilege granted by the government

That is such a load of $hit forced down your throats by the government. It is us the taxpayers that are paying for those roads, or did you forget that little detail? Or perhaps you forgot that the constitution grants you the right to freedom of travel, and driving by car is the main means of such in the U.S.? Keep on believing the crap your fed by the government, that's the way they like it. Then when they collect your gun and tell you that having a gun is a privilege not a right notwithstanding the fundamental right to defend yourself, you'll think it's A-OK!

agreed

+1

 

[Kai SRT10]

This is currently under serious consideration in England.

When I was in London last month, it was being debated heavily on the news.

They are considering both charging drivers based on how much they drive, and also giving speeding tickets automatically. The gps device knows the speed limit of the stretch of road you are on, and monitors your speed accordingly.

Already, they have speed cameras on the highways that take pictures of your license plates and then give you tickets based on average speed between cameras.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/ne...a7-b1c2cf859f96

 

[valentine_viper]

This is currently under serious consideration in England.

When I was in London last month, it was being debated heavily on the news.

They are considering both charging drivers based on how much they drive, and also giving speeding tickets automatically. The gps device knows the speed limit of the stretch of road you are on, and monitors your speed accordingly.

Already, they have speed cameras on the highways that take pictures of your license plates and then give you tickets based on average speed between cameras.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/ne...a7-b1c2cf859f96

They can that here today with toll boths. Time stamps at each both that calculate time and distance traveled to obtain average speed. If it's over the limit, you get a ticket in the mail. They haven't done it yet, but all the technology and equipment necessary to do it has been in place for years.

 

[viperbilliam]

I think the paranoia is getting too far here. We have too many lawyers in this country that would successfully challenge the extreme restrictions some of you are envisioning. The leap in logic in comparing what I mentioned to the Soviet system is a little far. There's a lot of killjoy ideas here I hope don't come to fruition; there's too much emphasis on speeding whereas the powers that be can be looking at driving under the influence, red light/stop sign running, yakking on the phone, excessive or reckless speeding, road rage, etc. Some of these people think they have a right to drive as they please. Paying taxes doesn't give rights to do this. I doubt the government will get too carried aways with restricting personal travel because it's such an ingrained part of our economy.

 

[Kai SRT10]

I think the paranoia is getting too far here. We have too many lawyers in this country that would successfully challenge the extreme restrictions some of you are envisioning. The leap in logic in comparing what I mentioned to the Soviet system is a little far. There's a lot of killjoy ideas here I hope don't come to fruition; there's too much emphasis on speeding whereas the powers that be can be looking at driving under the influence, red light/stop sign running, yakking on the phone, excessive or reckless speeding, road rage, etc. Some of these people think they have a right to drive as they please. Paying taxes doesn't give rights to do this. I doubt the government will get too carried aways with restricting personal travel because it's such an ingrained part of our economy.

I don't share your optomistic view of the government "not getting carried away."

I think they "got carried away" when they imposed the 55mph speed limit. I think that they will continue to chip away at our privacy and freedom in the name of safety and efficiency.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Uhhh... how about the data recorder that was 1) used by OEMs to gather info for safer airbags and then 2) used by law enforcement for traffic accident diagnosis.

 

[kickinasp]

Just remember we will always have "people" that wil offer "kits" that defeat anything out there.... there already is a company that can shut off EDR.

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

Before we get too far with individual privacy rights, remember that driving on public roads is not a right; it's a privilege granted by the government

That is such a load of $hit forced down your throats by the government. It is us the taxpayers that are paying for those roads, or did you forget that little detail? Or perhaps you forgot that the constitution grants you the right to freedom of travel, and driving by car is the main means of such in the U.S.? Keep on believing the crap your fed by the government, that's the way they like it. Then when they collect your gun and tell you that having a gun is a privilege not a right notwithstanding the fundamental right to defend yourself, you'll think it's A-OK!

agreed

+1

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+2

I can almost guarantee that this OBD III tech will be abused by whomever can to gain an advantage at what they do. Monitoring tailpipe emisions are a very weak reason to intrude on privacy and liberty. Too many sensors are on cars already many of which, if malfunctioning, will cause a breakdown. Not only is hot rodding and privacy at risk, but so is general dependability of cars. It will be a sad day when the cars 30+ years old start having fewer breakdowns than the over teched out GPS monitored boredom mobiles in the future. At least the tow trucks can find them easier with GPS.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Just remember we will always have "people" that wil offer "kits" that defeat anything out there.... there already is a company that can shut off EDR.

There is? Can you point to a link for it? very interested in the general information about it...

 

[Racer Robbie]

This is currently under serious consideration in England.

When I was in London last month, it was being debated heavily on the news.

They are considering both charging drivers based on how much they drive, and also giving speeding tickets automatically. The gps device knows the speed limit of the stretch of road you are on, and monitors your speed accordingly.

Already, they have speed cameras on the highways that take pictures of your license plates and then give you tickets based on average speed between cameras.

They are doing this right now on I-95 in Connecticut. Gps can both track your position and your speed as long as you are moving from one point to another. Boaters have been using GPS for chart plotting for 20 years.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Uhhh... how about the data recorder that was 1) used by OEMs to gather info for safer airbags and then 2) used by law enforcement for traffic accident diagnosis.

How right you are Tom and they have been around for quite a while now. I wonder how many of our fellow viper owners are driving around in non viper cars with these data recorders in place and do not know it?

Robbie

 

[Racer Robbie]

OBD-3 can bite me. i will just ride my turbocharged motorcycle around guzzlin leaded race gas and give the finger to the nazis while i am at it. motorcycles don't have any form of OBD whatsoever.......

....yet

I am not so sure about that as I know for a fact that Honda street bikes are so equipped that are built for California. They have o2 sensors, ecm's, and cats too.