You do not know that seat time is not an issue since none of the test drivers had any prior experience with the Gen V and all had prior experience with the ZR1.
Latest from Edmunds. Dyno test.
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bluestreak
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New cars come out all the time and beat older ones. Test drivers still manage, even with new models. In fact more times than not when talking about a new generation of vehicle vs older the new one is quicker and faster. Evem in spite of the test driver having driven the older car once or twice a couple of years ago.
You can keep blaming drivers and everything but what's on the car if you want, doesn't make it any more true.
You can keep blaming drivers and everything but what's on the car if you want, doesn't make it any more true.
A patently absurd statement. The new cars generally are improved. So of course they beat the older cars. That has nothing to do with what happened here. Here we are dealing with a new car that takes more skill to drive at its limits. And, in cas eyou do not know it, that is what the Viper has always been about.
Bob is RANGER paid hundreds of thousands a year to test cars. Does Ranger get flown in to Dearborn to test and consult on prototypes when Ford needs to have the best possible ET out of a car. DoesRanger hold 17 NHRA RECORDS. Does Ranger hold virtually every published drag record for ALL THE BIG TIME high end american production cars (FORD GT, GEN 2 VIPER ,GEN 4 VIPER ,Z06 CORVETTE ZR-1 CORVETTE ) Did Ranger ever win HIS CLASS IN THE ONE LAP OF AMERICA .Bob if seat time was so vital please explain just how its possible to run an 11.7 in a bone stock Gen 2 Viper after 4-5 runs If seat time was so vitual how do you run an 11.2 in a Gen 4 after 4-5 runs .If seat time was so vitual how do you run a 11.1 in a Z06 (LIGHTWEIGHT VERSION )after 4-5 runs (I DONT THINK RANGER DESPITE A THOUSAND RUNS HAS GONE QUICKER )Bob Ranger is a fine driver but there a reason BUT HES NOT A PROFESSIONAL Bob i personally witnessed the above Viper tests The pro in question had NEVER SO MUCH AS SAT IN GEN 2 AND GEN 4 CARS BEFORE HE DROVE THEM His only experiance driving a Viper WAS MY HEAVILY MODDED GEN 2
bluestreak
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Takes more skill than Randy Pobst has? Hahahaha, that makes the performance unobtanium for everyone posting here and every Viper owner, thereby useless if people that buy the car cant even drive it fast. And as if more skill wont make the other cars faster too.
You are only digging a deeper hole. The whole ethos of the new Viper is easier to drive than before, so if that is the case the earlier vipers wouldnt have beaten the Z06 either now would they?
Vipers faster straightline due to power weight and gearing.
Zr1s better on the track due to tires and brakes.
Both are simply amazeing.
Vipers much rarer and looks much better with a higher quality interior. vipers all engine.
God bless America
Zr1s better on the track due to tires and brakes.
Both are simply amazeing.
Vipers much rarer and looks much better with a higher quality interior. vipers all engine.
God bless America
Some of us do not mind learning. It is a life long endeavorand can be exciting and challenging. Others want everything easy. People are what they are. Some are leaders. Some are followers. Some are willing to pay their dues to become better and better at what they do. Some want credit for doing nothing.
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You are so infatuated with the person or persons who you are writing about that you are missing the point. The issue is not what the professional can do in comparison to you or another amateur. The issue is what he or she can do when compared with themselves. A pro that hops in a previously undriven car will get a better result than someone like you every time. But that same pro will get an even better result after he or she has had more practice time in the car. Any competent professional will agree with this statement. If he or she does not, he or she is not telling the truth. The same rule goes for any professional endeavor. I do not know what you do for a living but if you have a skill set that requires that you continually update your knowledge and hone your skills and utilize those skills in changing environments then perhaps you will undertsand what I am saying. If you do not have such a skill set then perhaps you just, for some reason, cannot understand the value of experience, practice and wisdom whether it be with respect to driving at the edge or in another context.
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bluestreak
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That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. We are talking about a test concerning a pro driver.
Yes. A pro drver, who believe it or not, does not walk on water and like anyone else can improve his performance with seat time. I suggest that you attend a high performance driving school. There you will learn that there are always ways to improve your performance no matter how good you may think you are. If you are interested in drag racing, I recommend Frank Hawley's Drag Racing School. Many pros go there to work on their skill sets. Only amateurs who are star struck think pros are supermen. They are gifted people who work very,very hard to constantly hone their skills. That is true for the best in any endeavor.
bluestreak
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I should attend an HPDE? Your presumptions are not your friend. I have not only attended DE, I'm an instructor with NARRA, PBOC, Chin Motorpsports, Tar Heel Sports Car Club and Regional Mustang club. I'm one of Chin's select few drivers who gives check rides to drivers wanting to move up a group. I also have or have held multiple time trial records with NASA and NARRA. And I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
You can sit here and conjecture about tire pressures, and driver skill all you want, but at the end of the day, Randy's resume speaks far more volumes than your completely biased doubts. And as long as Randy's experience is accompanied by every other test showing the same results, you can come up with all the excuses in the world and that's not going to make anyone who knows any better pay you any attention.
The Gen V is slower on the road course because of IT'S TIRES. They are not as fast, period, point blank, end of story. Pirelli Corsas are just not as fast. This is a fact.
You can sit here and conjecture about tire pressures, and driver skill all you want, but at the end of the day, Randy's resume speaks far more volumes than your completely biased doubts. And as long as Randy's experience is accompanied by every other test showing the same results, you can come up with all the excuses in the world and that's not going to make anyone who knows any better pay you any attention.
The Gen V is slower on the road course because of IT'S TIRES. They are not as fast, period, point blank, end of story. Pirelli Corsas are just not as fast. This is a fact.
I do not doubt Randy's skills and I doubt Randy would disagree that he can always improve the result he obtained in the Viper with more practice in the Viper since he admitted that his confidence level was not high and he admitted that he believed that one of the rear wheels may have been somewhat out of track adjustment. If you do not believe that practice can improve performance, why are you an instructor? You seem to have a curious view for a teacher.
As for the tire issue, I posted the proper procedure, as shown on Tire Rack's web site, for the tires on the Viper used in the comparo test in another thread. I doubt that procedure was followed by the Magazines testing the car. It included starting out at 6 pounds under the recommended pressure and running five or so laps to warm the tires up then adjusting the pressure accordingly. I am only guessing but from Randy's comments, it may be that the tires were running higher pressure than the 30 pounds that they were supposed to be running at. The higher pressure would certainly make the car behave quite differently - a bit skittish. On the other hand, I was told by a reliable source who I cannot name that the Vette's tires were shaved. So the difference in the tires you mention may have been more in the prep and less in the tire itself. Do you have any data comparing the respective tire performance where strict warm up and pressure adjustment procedures were followed for each tire? That type of data would be helpful since you seem to be implying that SRT did not do its home work and R&D when it selected the tire at issue for the Gen V. Which is a fairly serious accusation.
BTW, congrats on your driving accomplishments. Keep up the good work.
As for the tire issue, I posted the proper procedure, as shown on Tire Rack's web site, for the tires on the Viper used in the comparo test in another thread. I doubt that procedure was followed by the Magazines testing the car. It included starting out at 6 pounds under the recommended pressure and running five or so laps to warm the tires up then adjusting the pressure accordingly. I am only guessing but from Randy's comments, it may be that the tires were running higher pressure than the 30 pounds that they were supposed to be running at. The higher pressure would certainly make the car behave quite differently - a bit skittish. On the other hand, I was told by a reliable source who I cannot name that the Vette's tires were shaved. So the difference in the tires you mention may have been more in the prep and less in the tire itself. Do you have any data comparing the respective tire performance where strict warm up and pressure adjustment procedures were followed for each tire? That type of data would be helpful since you seem to be implying that SRT did not do its home work and R&D when it selected the tire at issue for the Gen V. Which is a fairly serious accusation.
BTW, congrats on your driving accomplishments. Keep up the good work.
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bushido
Viper Owner
The tires,and Randy Pobst also said that the car rode terrible,was stiff. IMO the car is probably too sprung..
SnakeBitten
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I agree. But unfortunately per Edmunds article:
"Erich Heuschele, manager of SRT Dynamics Engineering, told us that the Viper might behave this way on a slower track like Streets, but the car is designed for faster, smoother circuits. "We could have compromised the Viper for slow, rough tracks, but that's not what it is for. Our owners want an uncompromised track car."
Isnt making it too stiff to work properly on slower uneven paved track "compromising the Vipers chances to win on slower tracks thus compromising it as a complete track car?
So the Viper is designed for ONLY fast, smooth circuits? Thats pretty one dimentional. The ZR1/Z06/GT2/GT3 etc can handle fast or slow tracks. So that makes them better complete track cars than the Viper by Eric's own words, if Edmunds quoted him right.
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Bob;
I happen to know for a fact SRT did not evaluate Michelin for the GEN V. They never had a chance to! When the tire contract came out on the GEN V, Michelin did not even tender a response bid. This is right from the high altitude SRT test team out here in Colorado for the GEN V. While Michelin tires are vastly superior to Pirelli tires (IMHO anyway and the series on the GEN V now), it is hard to establish a supply chain contract for the tire when the supply company refuses to bid on the tire contract and the company's Alliance supply chain contract is Pirelli period.
HOWEVER in 1992 when Lutz was forced to come up with a tire for the Viper and Chrysler only had Alliiance contracts with Goodyear or Goodridge or whoever, Lutz put his foot down and said it is Michelin or nothing, as Michelin was the top perfoming tire at the time. That is how Michelins ended up on a Chrysler product like the Viper. Come to think of it, it was around Halloween time and instead of bringing a huge trailor to the contract testing like Goodyear, Michelin showed up with only a few sets wrapped in Trick or Treat Halloween orange bags. They then walked away with the top performance tire, hands down. It was no contest!
In the end, something happened to the Viper-Michelin relationship and no matter what, that needs to be repaired. It could be something going way back to tire supply to a Ferrari or something in parent FIAT. In the end, there are two ways of solving this:
1. Repair the Michelin relationship and try to set up a contract to supply the car with the tires it desperately needs ASAP.
2. Pirelli needs to step up and provide the Viper with it's top performing tire ASAP, period.
The current Pirelli's are a joke, like most other Pirelli's I have owned over the years. Not worth the powder to blow them to hell. Maybe the top of the line series are much different and can be adapted to Viper sizes and supplied. What does SRT care if they only last 2,000 miles. If the car is tracked there is no warranty anyway. If it helps show better numbers and that sells cars, then that is what you do. Sell the best damn cars you can which was Lutz philosophy!
The problem from a business sense is one thing, what we need is for Lutz type decisions to be made like the absolute use of a vastly superior tire even if that supplier is not in the supply chain currently. Again as I have stated, SRT needs to go back to Laguna with the same car, run it out and sort it out, then do so on Pirellis as supplied and then on trusted Michelins. That will tell them what they need to know. They might as well have Pirelli step up and supply them with the top of the line series tire in the right sizes as well. Compare that and that does not cost millions of dollars to do so.
In the end, if someone is paying $150K for their Viper or a different tire price to bring it up to $152.5K with top of the line Pirellis, I do not think there is a sole out there that would not choose the extra $2.5K to ensure they have a vastly superior tire or one that could pick up 1.5 seconds at the Laguna at that ultimate car price. Same rationale for the Carbon Brake option. Even at a price diference of $7.5K for CBs with credit for those front brakes what the Viper now has, it at least presents the option for those that want it or need it. To many, $7.5k extra when you are paying $150K for a car in order to pick up another 1.5 seconds around Laguna is worth it.
So if you are paying $150K for this new Viper or even $100k for the base SRT and it is 3 seconds from where it should, you pay an extra $10k and pick up 3 seconds around Laguna in either Viper model. If that is important to you, that is the easiest, cheapest and best $10k you have ever spent. It only makes perfect sense.
In the stratesphere numbers the new Viper has now jumped up into, these options like this, you might was well make them available. The Carbon Brakes option makes perfect sense as you are already jumping on the Alliance supply chain contract Ferrari has in place, just as you did with Sabelt. Now is the time to test it and offer it. Who cares about the timing, etc. people just want the best Viper they can get. It does not cost millions of dollars to have a Ferrari-based carbon front brake set up for the Viper. Custom Caliper mounting and custom hat for the front rotors and then run it. Cheap assurance to ensure you have the best offered.
In the end, you just don't scrimp on the final details like this on a car this expensive now. It makes zero sense to do so. Complete the metamorphsis! If the car was under $100K for the car with options, okay scrimp to keep it there, but the cost has now jumped up to where leaving it out is more harm than good. People expect a lot more for a $150K car than a $75K car or $91K Viper. The cost of the new car has changed the game now. It has changed everything as people who have this kind of money simply will not tolerate inferior parts. We could justify it before as the car was under $100K. There is zero reason to justify it now at the numbers it is at.
But what do I know, I am just an "enthusiast" now.
I happen to know for a fact SRT did not evaluate Michelin for the GEN V. They never had a chance to! When the tire contract came out on the GEN V, Michelin did not even tender a response bid. This is right from the high altitude SRT test team out here in Colorado for the GEN V. While Michelin tires are vastly superior to Pirelli tires (IMHO anyway and the series on the GEN V now), it is hard to establish a supply chain contract for the tire when the supply company refuses to bid on the tire contract and the company's Alliance supply chain contract is Pirelli period.
HOWEVER in 1992 when Lutz was forced to come up with a tire for the Viper and Chrysler only had Alliiance contracts with Goodyear or Goodridge or whoever, Lutz put his foot down and said it is Michelin or nothing, as Michelin was the top perfoming tire at the time. That is how Michelins ended up on a Chrysler product like the Viper. Come to think of it, it was around Halloween time and instead of bringing a huge trailor to the contract testing like Goodyear, Michelin showed up with only a few sets wrapped in Trick or Treat Halloween orange bags. They then walked away with the top performance tire, hands down. It was no contest!
In the end, something happened to the Viper-Michelin relationship and no matter what, that needs to be repaired. It could be something going way back to tire supply to a Ferrari or something in parent FIAT. In the end, there are two ways of solving this:
1. Repair the Michelin relationship and try to set up a contract to supply the car with the tires it desperately needs ASAP.
2. Pirelli needs to step up and provide the Viper with it's top performing tire ASAP, period.
The current Pirelli's are a joke, like most other Pirelli's I have owned over the years. Not worth the powder to blow them to hell. Maybe the top of the line series are much different and can be adapted to Viper sizes and supplied. What does SRT care if they only last 2,000 miles. If the car is tracked there is no warranty anyway. If it helps show better numbers and that sells cars, then that is what you do. Sell the best damn cars you can which was Lutz philosophy!
The problem from a business sense is one thing, what we need is for Lutz type decisions to be made like the absolute use of a vastly superior tire even if that supplier is not in the supply chain currently. Again as I have stated, SRT needs to go back to Laguna with the same car, run it out and sort it out, then do so on Pirellis as supplied and then on trusted Michelins. That will tell them what they need to know. They might as well have Pirelli step up and supply them with the top of the line series tire in the right sizes as well. Compare that and that does not cost millions of dollars to do so.
In the end, if someone is paying $150K for their Viper or a different tire price to bring it up to $152.5K with top of the line Pirellis, I do not think there is a sole out there that would not choose the extra $2.5K to ensure they have a vastly superior tire or one that could pick up 1.5 seconds at the Laguna at that ultimate car price. Same rationale for the Carbon Brake option. Even at a price diference of $7.5K for CBs with credit for those front brakes what the Viper now has, it at least presents the option for those that want it or need it. To many, $7.5k extra when you are paying $150K for a car in order to pick up another 1.5 seconds around Laguna is worth it.
So if you are paying $150K for this new Viper or even $100k for the base SRT and it is 3 seconds from where it should, you pay an extra $10k and pick up 3 seconds around Laguna in either Viper model. If that is important to you, that is the easiest, cheapest and best $10k you have ever spent. It only makes perfect sense.
In the stratesphere numbers the new Viper has now jumped up into, these options like this, you might was well make them available. The Carbon Brakes option makes perfect sense as you are already jumping on the Alliance supply chain contract Ferrari has in place, just as you did with Sabelt. Now is the time to test it and offer it. Who cares about the timing, etc. people just want the best Viper they can get. It does not cost millions of dollars to have a Ferrari-based carbon front brake set up for the Viper. Custom Caliper mounting and custom hat for the front rotors and then run it. Cheap assurance to ensure you have the best offered.
In the end, you just don't scrimp on the final details like this on a car this expensive now. It makes zero sense to do so. Complete the metamorphsis! If the car was under $100K for the car with options, okay scrimp to keep it there, but the cost has now jumped up to where leaving it out is more harm than good. People expect a lot more for a $150K car than a $75K car or $91K Viper. The cost of the new car has changed the game now. It has changed everything as people who have this kind of money simply will not tolerate inferior parts. We could justify it before as the car was under $100K. There is zero reason to justify it now at the numbers it is at.
But what do I know, I am just an "enthusiast" now.
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bushido
Viper Owner
Laguna Seca is a smooth track. As smooth as it gets,and a track that's great for cars with horsepower,and solid brakes .So I don't know what he's talking about..
It seems to me that the suspension adjust modes are not par. Street setting too soft,and sport/racing setting too stiff etc. Probably would be better for the car to have the same KW setup like on the ACR. That way you can fine tune the rebound ( Primaries) and compression..
BOB please .In a factory stock tired car a pro WILL KNOW FROM HIS 60 FOOT TIME (TRACK PERMITTING ) AND TRAP SPEED JUST HOW MUCH IS LEFT (if hes getting consistant 1.75 or better on stock tires its done )iBob ANYTIME you want to learn from ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS (INSTEAD OF INTERNET RACING )EMAIL ME .Bradaton FLA is the home track of MCMULLEN ARGUS .Iwill call the power to be down there and get you in a private testb session From there you can discuss you theorys ECT all you want
bluestreak
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Coloviper - Well Said!!!! The only DOT tire that has kept pace with the MPSC ever is the shaved RA1 from several years ago. Many people say the new ones are not as fast shaved, and that's a slick tire shaved. They were awful full tread. Some vendors who sell the Trofeo R's say they are faster than MPSC, but they are biased because they are trying to sell them and have provided no real data. I'll believe it when I see it. MPSC are the truth.
Yes, correct, I don't know what he's talking about, but without lots of DF and/or REALLY sticky tires and/or a super heavy car (I.E. GT-R) you are wasting time (literally and figuratively) with really stiff spring rates. That statement is contradictory. Laguna is not a slow rough track. If they take that thing to the Nurburgring it will not be fun to drive either, the ring is very bumpy and has lots of tight sections.
That statement sounds selective in what they mean by uncompromised. By uncompromised track car do they mean the supple leather interior, high quality audio, or bluetooth navigation? Doesn't sound like that's what their customer is looking for at all. I'm sure any customer would like the same car handling better and easier to drive (via suspension tuning, not nannies) and that will come with softer spring rates to make the ride less twitchy and nervous. Stiffer rates take more driver ability to go fast. I know SRT want a drivers car, but making the car harder to drive for the heck of it doesn't make sense.
I never said I don't believe you can improve with practice, sure amateur drivers will spend years getting better. But pro drivers are paid to be able to extract the maximum out of a car in short order. Randy Pobst has been a factory Porsche driver, an honor not many drivers, and certainly not many Americans ever have a chance to. I think Randy is not extracting everything from the Viper, that I'll concede, but 2 seconds - no way. I'd like to see the Viper properly represented with competitive tires, then we can talk about Randy, but until then, it won't matter anyways, the ZR1 has the grip advantage.
If SRT's hands are tied to Pirelli, they need the best Pirelli. If the Corsas were the best, or among the best, Pirelli would not have come out with the Trofeo and Trofeo R's.
thank you.
Yes, correct, I don't know what he's talking about, but without lots of DF and/or REALLY sticky tires and/or a super heavy car (I.E. GT-R) you are wasting time (literally and figuratively) with really stiff spring rates. That statement is contradictory. Laguna is not a slow rough track. If they take that thing to the Nurburgring it will not be fun to drive either, the ring is very bumpy and has lots of tight sections.
That statement sounds selective in what they mean by uncompromised. By uncompromised track car do they mean the supple leather interior, high quality audio, or bluetooth navigation? Doesn't sound like that's what their customer is looking for at all. I'm sure any customer would like the same car handling better and easier to drive (via suspension tuning, not nannies) and that will come with softer spring rates to make the ride less twitchy and nervous. Stiffer rates take more driver ability to go fast. I know SRT want a drivers car, but making the car harder to drive for the heck of it doesn't make sense.
I never said I don't believe you can improve with practice, sure amateur drivers will spend years getting better. But pro drivers are paid to be able to extract the maximum out of a car in short order. Randy Pobst has been a factory Porsche driver, an honor not many drivers, and certainly not many Americans ever have a chance to. I think Randy is not extracting everything from the Viper, that I'll concede, but 2 seconds - no way. I'd like to see the Viper properly represented with competitive tires, then we can talk about Randy, but until then, it won't matter anyways, the ZR1 has the grip advantage.
If SRT's hands are tied to Pirelli, they need the best Pirelli. If the Corsas were the best, or among the best, Pirelli would not have come out with the Trofeo and Trofeo R's.
thank you.
ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
As I and ColoViper have stated Michelin refused to bid on tires for the new car. Now in reality, the rears are only 10mm wider at 355. I believe, comparable front size is available from Michelin. Given this I hope someone just mounts a set of Michelin PS2s or Cups on a Gen 5 and gives it another go at LS. Can't imagine any difference from 10mm wider tire won't be more than offset by the superior Michelin compound/construction.
However, 2 seconds is a lot. I have to work my butt off to gain 2 seconds a lap. Maybe true racing slicks would make a 4 second difference but even with the Michelin tires and a Viper Pilot I wonder if the Gen 5 would give the ZR-1 a butt kicking or just come close.
However, 2 seconds is a lot. I have to work my butt off to gain 2 seconds a lap. Maybe true racing slicks would make a 4 second difference but even with the Michelin tires and a Viper Pilot I wonder if the Gen 5 would give the ZR-1 a butt kicking or just come close.
I suggest that you discuss your theory that pros cannot improve their results through additional seat time and practice with Frank Hawley. His drag racing credentials, and teaching credentials, are unimpeachable. He was also my instructor for my NHRA Supergas, Supercomp and Top Dragster licenses.
FYI, Frank is a two-time World champion. He won seven NHRA funny car and two Top Fuel Dragster national events during his 10-year Top Fuel racing career that included the 1982 and 1983 NHRA Funny Car World Championship, when he drove the Chi-Town Hustler for Austin Coil. I respect Frank's driving achievements and his extraordinary teaching skill. He has done more for drag racing's continuity as a sport and helped create more drag racing stars than anyone alive today.
You really are a glutten for punishment aren't you? LOL.
FYI, Frank is a two-time World champion. He won seven NHRA funny car and two Top Fuel Dragster national events during his 10-year Top Fuel racing career that included the 1982 and 1983 NHRA Funny Car World Championship, when he drove the Chi-Town Hustler for Austin Coil. I respect Frank's driving achievements and his extraordinary teaching skill. He has done more for drag racing's continuity as a sport and helped create more drag racing stars than anyone alive today.
You really are a glutten for punishment aren't you? LOL.
"BTW, congrats on your driving accomplishments. Keep up the good work.I never said I don't believe you can improve with practice, sure amateur drivers will spend years getting better. But pro drivers are paid to be able to extract the maximum out of a car in short order. Randy Pobst has been a factory Porsche driver, an honor not many drivers, and certainly not many Americans ever have a chance to. I think Randy is not extracting everything from the Viper, that I'll concede, but 2 seconds - no way. I'd like to see the Viper properly represented with competitive tires, then we can talk about Randy, but until then, it won't matter anyways, the ZR1 has the grip advantage.
If SRT's hands are tied to Pirelli, they need the best Pirelli. If the Corsas were the best, or among the best, Pirelli would not have come out with the Trofeo and Trofeo R's."
Fair enough. Let's see what the retest shows.
If SRT's hands are tied to Pirelli, they need the best Pirelli. If the Corsas were the best, or among the best, Pirelli would not have come out with the Trofeo and Trofeo R's."
Fair enough. Let's see what the retest shows.
Bob last year MY GUY RACED TONY PETROGON NHRA TOP FUEL LEADER )HEADS UP IN A STOCK MUSTANG COBRA AND WIPED THE FLOOR WITH HIM EASILY (OVER .5 SECONDS ) HE WOUND UP TEACHING PETROGON THE INS AND OUT OF DRAG RACING A TOTALLY STOCK CAR. In any factory STOCK TIRED CAR FRANK HAWLEY would get beaten as easily as PETROGON .Bob you can not equate DRAG RACING A TOP FUEL CAR WITH THAT OF A FACTORY STOCK TIRE CAR Instead of bench racing on the computer get in your VIPER and head over to BRADATON .Your invited let me know .Ps call FRANK HAWLEY UP and ask him yourself how he would fare he will tell you that its an entirely different animal
Your post is absurd. BTW, I do not drag race the Viper ( maybe once or twice in Mexico). It is set up for road course and standing mile. But if you notice my signature, the other cars have run a quarter mile. The truck will be at Palm Beach this month. Having drag raced street/stock performance vehicles ( admittedly mostly in Mexico, since 1964, I can assure you that the skill set needed to drive a Supergas door car, Supercomp Dragster, Top Dragster and, of course, a Top Fuel car far exceeds the skill set needed to drive a stock car. I do not know what happened with Mr. P. I was not there but he should be ashamed of himself. Driving a stock car at their ets and trap speeds is nothing compared to the higher class cars. The skill set, discipline and control over feelings required to drive a Top Dragster at 6.793 seconds and 207 MPH far exceeds what is necessary to drive a stock car. Try it and you will see. Give Frank a call and take some lessons.
BTW, what does the term "my guy" mean in your post?
BTW, what does the term "my guy" mean in your post?
Bob last time i checked this was a Viper forum and Vipers are factory stock tired cars .Bob its A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF EXPERTISE and SKILL SET (ORTHOPODS DONT PERFORM CARDIO SURGERY ) What happened to MR P WOULD HAPPEN TO ANY FUNNY CAR ,TOP FUEL DRIVER . Bob its a totally different relahm of DRAG RACING WHEN A FACTORY STOCK TIRED CAR is involved .I invited you out to the track so you would experiance this first hand You threw something out there (FRANK HAWKINS SCHOOL )and when i told you EXACTLY what happens when an NHRA PRO VENTURES INTO DRAG RACING A FACTORY STOCK CAR YOUR NOW FLABBERGASTED LOOKING FOR ANSWERS =TOO FUNNY
You gave me one example without any background facts regarding an event in Bradenton. Did Mr. P have any seat time in the car he used? Did he do it as a joke? Drag racing, after the difference in equipmet is learned, is about reaction time, launch technique, shift technique when applicable,consistency, pure driving skill, guts and control over emotions. Most, if not all, higher class drag racers started racing in the lower classes. To suggest that a driver in the upper classes, given sufficient seat time in a car to familiarize himself or herself with the equipment could not beat someone like you or, most people for that matter, is absurd.
As noted in my post number 173 I am familiar with "stock tired cars". I think that more than five decades of driving performance vehicles in a performance manner ( including go carts I built before being licensed to drive) allows me to perhaps appreciate experience, training and wisdom in a manner that you do not seem to comprehend.
FYI, in one of the standing mile events, with a mediocre launch, my Viper ran an 11.1 quarter. I think that I have done substantially better in Mexico. Driving my Viper is much, much easier than driving the Supergas door car, the Supercomp dragster and , especially, the Top Dragster. The less time you have to do things in the quarter, the more skill is required to do them. But I know that you will not understand this. You will just come back with another tale of adoration and love for "your guy".
As noted in my post number 173 I am familiar with "stock tired cars". I think that more than five decades of driving performance vehicles in a performance manner ( including go carts I built before being licensed to drive) allows me to perhaps appreciate experience, training and wisdom in a manner that you do not seem to comprehend.
FYI, in one of the standing mile events, with a mediocre launch, my Viper ran an 11.1 quarter. I think that I have done substantially better in Mexico. Driving my Viper is much, much easier than driving the Supergas door car, the Supercomp dragster and , especially, the Top Dragster. The less time you have to do things in the quarter, the more skill is required to do them. But I know that you will not understand this. You will just come back with another tale of adoration and love for "your guy".
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
This thread needs more caps lock
bluestreak
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It would still be close even on mpsc. I don't think anyone would guarantee a win but it's likely Viper could be ahead, especially if they address this brake issue.
elanderholm
Enthusiast
Trofeo's are extremely fast, just not in viper sizes...yet.
Bob the event in question was PRO TEST DRIVER SHOOTOUT LOL as i posted previously your MR P wound up ASKING ADVICE because ITS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT LEVEL OF EXPERTISE .Bob why do you think the driver in question is FORDS HIRED GUN. Ford could have ANY DRIVER IN THE WORLD (INCLUDING ANY TOP FUEL GUY) do their prototype Rand D testing why him .Bob why is he PAID the amount of money he commands .Bob why did a guy named Jack Roush choose him to run one of Roush cars in the ONE LAP OF AMERICA (your telling me ROUSH couldnt have hired a NHRA TOP FUEL DRIVER )PS you ran an 11.1 in a supercharged GEN 3 The last supercharged GEN 3 he tested (bolt on application )ran 10.7 on stock tires
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