MCS new product poll

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

MCS has been working on a new product offering for some foreign applications, a new NON remote reservoir coil over. They are making rebound adjustable only models now and are working on doubles for some applications. There is a limit as far as packaging (with in the length of a given shock body) for a double that can be possible without compromising everything that makes them the best choice for ride and handling.

There are no current plans for a Viper spec shock, I personally think that there would be a place for them especially for the customer that is just looking to lower their Viper properly and improve the ride. The rebound adjustment would be the exact same valving and adjust-ability as the current remote shocks and the compression would likely change ever so slightly with the rebound changes. It would also still have a high pressure nitrogen charge.

If I can get them to consider pursuing this option for the Viper would you be interested? I would assume they would have a lower price point then the remote shocks making them more attractive then the similarly offered shocks from other manufacturers. With another plus being factory support right here in the US.

 

[JohnnyH]

I would be interested. Depending on price and how close the ride quality that everyone seems to be raving about

 

[redtanrt10]

Mark, running Moton's so not looking at a change. I think there is a market there for the enthusiast that wants some better handling and/or a lower ride height Today the lower cost route is spring caps or KW2's. The KW's provide a decent ride/handling improvement but their not set up to change springs. I don't know anybody around here (DC, A&C, etc) that has the shock tool so I had to sent them back to KW a number of times to swap springs. An intermidate set up by MCS at the $2000-$2500 price point (with easy to change springs) would sell to many here. Hope all is well! Mike

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

I would be interested. Depending on price and how close the ride quality that everyone seems to be raving about

The ride quality will be the same as the full boat Clubsport versions.

Mark, running Moton's so not looking at a change. I think there is a market there for the enthusiast that wants some better handling and/or a lower ride height Today the lower cost route is spring caps or KW2's. The KW's provide a decent ride/handling improvement but their not set up to change springs. I don't know anybody around here (DC, A&C, etc) that has the shock tool so I had to sent them back to KW a number of times to swap springs. An intermidate set up by MCS at the $2000-$2500 price point (with easy to change springs) would sell to many here. Hope all is well! Mike

The price point would probably be a little higher then the KW offering, but the quality and the ride will be far and away better. I will push the price point as far as I can if they will consider doing it, but these will still be considerably cheaper then the 2 way Clubsports route without cutting corners to just make it cheap as possible. The old adage is still true, you get what you pay for, I'm just trying to get the cost of entry closer for the other 50% of the Viper community that wishes the ride height and ride quality could be improved.

Thank you all for the feedback!

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

PM's sent, thanks for the inquires it really helps to get this hopefully off the ground!

 

[JAY]

Thanx Mark !!!

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

MCS is very excited about how this poll is going and I am really pushing for it to happen so keep the voting going!

Thanks everyone,

 

[Xhlr8n]

Lower the viper and better handling. This something I would consider too. Please keep us updated..!

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Keep us posted on your product developement MJ. I have clients that will purchase a performance shock in this configuration!

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE
Toddy

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Will Do Toddy, always a pleasure to buy and sell with you, love the quality products you provide and the timely manner in which you accommodate my requests. Good luck with the new header project they look like a beautifully crafted work of art, I know I will be offering them a lot to my clients. BTW I hope you are feeling better my friend.

Keep us posted on your product developement MJ. I have clients that will purchase a performance shock in this configuration!

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE
Toddy

 

[JAY]

Just wondering Mark , will these be comparable to KW's in regards to Performance ? Thanx for your input !

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

They will blow the KW out of the water for ride comfort AND performance. The goal is similar ride to the clubsport version without the compression adjustment. It will be nitrogen charged so they would give similar support.

Just wondering Mark , will these be comparable to KW's in regards to Performance ? Thanx for your input !

 

[JAY]

Very Cool !!! That said , I know They will sell !

 

[troublemaker]

I am very interested in these. Will these be upgradable to remote res. and further damping adjusters down the road? I only ask as it was usually easier to sell a basic"er" shock for a good price if the buyer knew that they could have their shocks upgraded down the road if their requirements changed(at least in a previous hobby that dealt with shocks often).

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Yes that would be a point we will like to see, I know the other singles out for different brands of cars now are built with the upgrade in mind so I do not see why this would not be the case for these. Body and quality will be the same as the current remote options MCS is offering.

I am very interested in these. Will these be upgradable to remote res. and further damping adjusters down the road? I only ask as it was usually easier to sell a basic"er" shock for a good price if the buyer knew that they could have their shocks upgraded down the road if their requirements changed(at least in a previous hobby that dealt with shocks often).

 

[witz323]

Hi Mark,

I'd appreciate it if you would keep me in the loop as well. I've been wanting to upgrade suspension for a couple years now. Thanks.

 

[lotti]

how long before these would be available and how much are we talking 3k? I am ready to buy now trying to decide what I am going to get.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

I'm working with MCS to make this happen, but I don't have a completion date yet. I'm hoping that they can fit into the proper price point to get the Viper community a truly high end shock offering befitting a Viper without cutting corners to just make it the cheapest. The Viper is a high performance car that needs to have shocks that can keep up.

Thanks and I will keep everyone in the loop,

how long before these would be available and how much are we talking 3k? I am ready to buy now trying to decide what I am going to get.

 

[viperbilliam]

Mark,

What about the Nitrogen re-filling? This is also a hassle point for me. Requires expensive tool and looking for Nitrogen source from time to time?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

The nitrogen fill can be set by MCS before they are shipped so you will not have to worry about the initial fill. Since there are no lines or fittings on the non remotes the fill should last a very long time. It should be checked and re filled to correct pressures at some point in its life, but if you do not mess with the shrader valve you will get a very long life out of it.

The nitrogen is a big part of the support for the shock, this also contributes to the excellent ride quality so it is an important element. If there was no pressure the ride would become harsher and the shock less responsive to expansion joint type hits.

Mark,

What about the Nitrogen re-filling? This is also a hassle point for me. Requires expensive tool and looking for Nitrogen source from time to time?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

*** OK guys I have been given the green light on these shocks! We have ordered 5 sets of the SRT single adjustable non remotes and they should be ready to ship in about 3 weeks. The new design will be perfect for the street and occasional track guys that want to lower their Viper and have the ride they have been dreaming about (These shocks will actually ride BETTER then the Club Sports that EVERYONE raves about!) Nitrogen fill will be spec'd on order and set for you so there should be no need to worry about that process unless you want to change it on your own, then that is also possible with the included fitting.

The target price for the package with springs and helpers is $3200 which is considerably less then the $5250 retail of the Clubsport doubles! If you are interested in some of the best value suspension you can buy for the Viper please get a hold of me early for even better deals if you pre order!

If you have other "toys" you may be able to get in on the ground floor for other models they can accommodate, just email the request to me an I will do the rest.

Thank you all for making this offering a reality!

 

[JAY]

Thanks Mark for your efforts ! Will call you .

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

You are welcome Jay, only the best, that's the way we roll.

First 3 sets are spoken for so call me if you want in on the first units! If they are all spoken for by next week I will try and add some more units to this order.

Thanks again,

Thanks Mark for your efforts ! Will call you .

 

[JAY]

Thanx Mark ! Looking forward to the MCS Set up !

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Only one set out of the first 5 left, after that it will be $200 more and the cost of shipping so if you are contemplating this don't wait to long! Although you know I will work with you either way after the first 5 to save you something.

 

[SRT09]

Any word on pricing to upgrade this to a remote setup down the road? I should have an answer for you Monday

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

I just had a customer switch to the remote MCS so I have a freed up set of the "specials" shock setup if there are any takers. I have also ordered 5 more sets to have in stock after the sale. Thanks to all of you that have asked about these and also to the new owners

I am still working on the addition pricing for the remote canister upgrade and will let you know shortly.

 

[Dom426h]

The nitrogen is a big part of the support for the shock, this also contributes to the excellent ride quality so it is an important element. If there was no pressure the ride would become harsher and the shock less responsive to expansion joint type hits.

I've been reading a lot of technical articles on shocks recently since i want to upgrade my GTS for the street & track. Im an engineer so i research the hell out of anything before i buy it as i'd like to be fully capable of specing/adjusting/tuning components. Also i dont want to be the dumb rich guy that gets asked a question from a fan and cant give him anymore info than what i paid for it. LOL. Im aware of how shim stacks, piston seals, and fluid capacty of a shock all effect the performance. It doesn’t take much to figure out the the Moton/Penski/MCS are the top viper choices. However, I do not have the $ for those options. So i need to learn more and find the best shock setup for the cheapest price. One i am pretty certain that i need is a shock that has nitrogen not CO2. My current stock GTS blue koni's seem to act differently halfway through a tracksession(in a bad way) and from what i have gathered a shock with external capacity &/or NIT fill will help to keep a shock performing more constantly as it heats up. I want to know more though...

Could you please elaborate on your above comments about nitrogen by answering the following questions:

1. Nitrogen. I assume most performance oriented shocks now-a-days use nitrogen instead of CO2. Were talking about like a buck or two diff per shock for the diff fill. Why would anyone cut this corner?
2. You talk about pressure. Please elaborate on this. Im i correct in thinking that nitrogen is capable of being pressurized in a shock as where CO2 cant because of its properties that are more likely to cavitate at higher temps therefore if the CO2 was pressurized then it would mix with the fluid and cavitate even quicker?
3. Why is NIT pressure necessary? I thought the Fluid is what determines the dampening curve as it passes through the shim stacks. Is the NIT pressure only there to stabilize the fluid because otherwise when the fluid heats up it would expand? Im picturing a cup 1/2 full with fluid the other 1/2 full with NIT with a lid on top. No pressure. Now heat it up and the fluid with expand pressurizing the NIT. OK, so now do the same experiment but Start with the NIT being pressurized. Whats the benefit to the fluid? Preload? Wouldnt that cause the fluid to heat up quicker? I dont see how that would be good...
4. It is known that Penski & Moton & MCS all use NIT in their shocks.
What about:
-KW
-Koni(our stock gen2 ones for example)
-Stock Gen3 DS
-What about the new Alden "Vipair" shock?

Thanks in advance for reading through my long post

 

[Paul Hawker]

Not a shock expert, but I believe the enemy of shock operation is foaming or frothing that occures when the shock oil is squeezed through the tiny orifices that enable the shock to dampen suspension motion in relation to the road surface and the vehicle.

For riding down the street, it is not usually an issue as the foaming is mild.

But when there is a tremendous amount of motion (such as on a track, or hot day) the oil does not have enough time to convert the foam back into a viscous fluid. Nitrogen is used to pressurize the fluid. This pressure slows down the creation of froth and causes any froth to go back to liquid. Much like a soda can is liquid under pressure, but as soon as you pop the top the liquid releases it's carbonation and bubbles appear.

For ultra high performance, remote canisters are used to give even more space for frothing to be controlled.

Do not know about CO2. Thought most normal shocks used regular air.

Other issues come into play for ride and handling. The design of the shock needs to be appropriate for the application, stronger components are better than weaker, lighter weight is better than heavier, the size of pistons need to be sufficient to prevent flex etc.

Looking forward to hearing from the experts on this.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Sorry I meant to respond to this and it fell through the cracks... Paul pretty much answered the Nitrogen questions, any high pressure gas shock made today uses Nitrogen to control foaming, although the MCS design goes a step further and can use it to add some "lifting force". This action controlled by canister pressure can actually add small amounts of "spring rate" to fine tune setups without needing to change springs in small amounts. The Remote shocks have this ability and to a much lesser degree the non remotes will also. The limited volume in the non remotes and the slightly smaller shaft size reduce this affect. We have decided that the Non remote singles will ship with 200psi and you will likely never need to worry about adjusting them or servicing them. If you do want to experiment with different pressures though you will have that capability.

Thanks and sorry for the delayed response.

BTW the first wave of shocks will ship next week so thank you first 5 for your orders, the next shipments will follow shortly so thanks for your patients.

Not a shock expert, but I believe the enemy of shock operation is foaming or frothing that occures when the shock oil is squeezed through the tiny orifices that enable the shock to dampen suspension motion in relation to the road surface and the vehicle.

For riding down the street, it is not usually an issue as the foaming is mild.

But when there is a tremendous amount of motion (such as on a track, or hot day) the oil does not have enough time to convert the foam back into a viscous fluid. Nitrogen is used to pressurize the fluid. This pressure slows down the creation of froth and causes any froth to go back to liquid. Much like a soda can is liquid under pressure, but as soon as you pop the top the liquid releases it's carbonation and bubbles appear.

For ultra high performance, remote canisters are used to give even more space for frothing to be controlled.

Do not know about CO2. Thought most normal shocks used regular air.

Other issues come into play for ride and handling. The design of the shock needs to be appropriate for the application, stronger components are better than weaker, lighter weight is better than heavier, the size of pistons need to be sufficient to prevent flex etc.

Looking forward to hearing from the experts on this.