PROJECT: "******** ACR-700R" Has Begun

[JAY]

Thanx for sharing , love this build ! Can't wait to see the Dyno numbers ! Congrats !

 

[dipapa]

Any further updates/metric on this gen4 heads & cam?

So the car simply runs good on a gen4 mopar controller that cannot be custom dyno or road tuned?

 

[TrackAire]

Any further updates/metric on this gen4 heads & cam?

So the car simply runs good on a gen4 mopar controller that cannot be custom dyno or road tuned?

Being a GenIV, there is no such thing as a custom tune like you can do with a Gen 3. It's either stock or the Mopar Controller. You can do custom pcm replacements like a Motec or equivalent for twin turbos, etc, but expect to pay approximately $10k for the privilage.

Cheers,
George

 

[dipapa]

Yes, I'm aware of that.

Just looking to hear more metrics/data for the gen4 heads & cam with mopar controller.

Any wideband A/F data for part & full throttle verify how good the mopar controller responds to a modified gen4 motor? Was a A/F gauge installed on the car?

And what about timing...is it conservative or advanced for this heads & cams setup and mopar. Can the car use more timing? hows the setup on 91 oct?

I have also been in query with the well know tuning guru about the MOTEC the tuning control, verstailty & optimization with high oct fuels & E85 is good stuff.

Im mean there is much work and money into this new gen4 ACR and the heads & cam so if a standard mopar controller tune are not completely optimized then the cost for a MOTEC may be justified. I think that decision really depends on how much the tuning can further be optimized and how much more hp can potentially be made.

And maybe a few runs on different dynos with the new motor setup be good to hear as well.

 

[Moundir]

Any chance to dyno this beast yet? Also, why is the new damn computer so hard to crack? I'm not too happy with the measly 600 rwhp these cars can put down

 

[FastGuy68]

Any further updates/metric on this gen4 heads & cam?

So the car simply runs good on a gen4 mopar controller that cannot be custom dyno or road tuned?

Just to be clear again, all I have done is ported intake upper & lower, ported heads, decked heads, installed stronger pushrods, changed valve spring shims, installed Denso ITL20 sparkplugs, installed Taylor 10.4mm 40 ohm race wires, installed ARP custom head bolts, installed BBG ACR-X Headers, installed ACR-X BORLA 3" catless exhaust, installed K&N filter,installed MOPAR ECM, installed MOPAR poly trans mount and replaced the stock crankcase venting system with one of my own design. If you look at everything, all I have done is make the engine more efficient at moving air and beefed up a few week spots. Therefore I don't see the need for anything beyond the MOPAR ECM at this point. I am running SUNOCO GT100 Unleaded to make sure I don't have ANY detonation issues whatsoever. I bought the car to do track days and the occasional street drive and i feel pretty happy with where it's at.

I do not plan on putting the car back on the dyno before getting 1,000+ miles on it to ensure a good beak-in. As it sits today I still only have 750 miles on it but I will be spending 3 full days on the race track during the Woodhouse Viper Event next weekend at Hastings Motorsports Park. I am sure the trip to the dyno will be in aprox. 2 weeks. I have been busy with other things like installing my safety harness kit and getting my new trailer set up to it's 1st trip next week. I also have to get the car over to Woodhouse Performane to get my track alignment/corner weight on Tuesday.

I will say again that the little driving I have done since getting it back on the road has been eye opening to say the least. I feel pretty confident that we have met or exceded our original goal of 700 H.P. at the flywheel. I honestly don't know the total money I have in the project at this point and don't care because I would do it again in a second!!

 

[FastGuy68]

One side down & one to go.... By the way, my car had bolts in all 4 lower factory safety harness mounting points unlike some who have not making finding them without cutting the carpet very easy.

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[FastGuy68]

Allmost forgot to add........I will also be installing a set of Stoptech Braided Stainless Steel Brake Lines and replacing the fluid with the Castrol SRF Racing stuff. I'll post pics of this once I get them installed this week.

 

[Black Moon]

Hey, thanks for the usefull info and I would have to say i have learned 90% of what I know about the Gen 4 Viper thanks to guys like you!
BTW - I am doing self engineered oil catch can system that is a little more efficiant than the ACR-X set up. It's very similar but the small details make it cool. I'll be posting detailed photos soon. Here is a teaser pic....

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Where did you buy these pieces from? Will they plug/fill an exiating vent hole which is about 1-1/4"? I have a breather now and want to do a catch can but don't want to have to weld up the hole we previously used. Thanks for the help. Sal

Just a little reminder of what the two black fittings on the valve covers look like from the "inside". This view would be looking from the top showing the 3 ported sides of the nut that works to restrict the oil but allows the air to move at a -12AN flow rate.

If your wondering why -12AN for the size, well two of the biggest names in oiling systems MOROSO & PETERSEN both reccomend "NO LESS THAN -12AN for crankcase venting".

 

[FastGuy68]

Where did you buy these pieces from? Will they plug/fill an exiating vent hole which is about 1-1/4"? I have a breather now and want to do a catch can but don't want to have to weld up the hole we previously used. Thanks for the help. Sal

You can get them from JEGS or Summit Racing online and as long as the hole is no bigger than that they should work. They are made by MOROSO and the part #22635.

 

[FastGuy68]

Just an update for those still interested.......at just over 1000 miles my car decided to eat my stock clutch & transmission!! I am still not sure what caused the failure (and probably never will) but my car started having a hard time with the 2-3 shift right before it went "BANG"! The clutch threw one whole friction face off the front disk and the transmission feels like it suffered a major failure based on the input shafts new found movement and the inability to roate 360 deg without locking up! I have NEVER had a problem with any transmission nor have I ever had a clutch failure in all the performance cars & trucks I have owned over the last 25 years. I have always only had manual transmissions in my daily drivers and fast cars so it's not like I just learned how to shift a manual trans either! Anyway, my car is in the shop getting a new clutch and transmission this week and hopefully it will be on thew road again by this weekend. I am still going to dyno the car but will need to give the new parts a few heat cycles and miles to break them in first.

Here is the stock clutch and what was left of the failed friction disk, the rest of the disk was M.I.A. Other than the failed disk the rest of the clutch & flywheel will looked brand new.

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[thompsonracing]

Sounds like it's time to contact Toddy and get a BBG clutch!

 

[BlknBlu]

Mike,

Before the clutch went out your car was eating up the track and your mods really shined in Hastings. You have an awesome car.

Bruce

 

[fqberful]

It sounds suspiciously like your torque output is close to or over the torque rating of the trans. I did this to a TKO 5SPD with a built V8 in a Dakota. Didn't mangle the clutch but the trans acted the exact same way. Lots of pieces on the inside.

Please let us know what the tear down reveals.

--FQB

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Pretty sure Mike already has a BBG clutch in hand from Toddy after his episode. Tough to see him have some issues after all the work to get it to the track at Motorsports Park Hastings.

NARRA has an event there in August and Woodhouse has their annual " Track Experience " there in September, so hopefully Mike will be able to get it back on the tarmac soon to check out all the upgrades.

 

[PAvenomRT/10]

Sorry to hear about your clutch and transmission problems, especially after all the work you had done to the car. Are the clutch and transmission covered under warranty with the upgrades you have done or was the warranty voided by the upgrades?
Thanks,
PAVenomRT/10

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Mike,

Did you ever find out for sure that the revs did not hurt the engine? Really sucked to see this happen so soon after, what did you find inside the transmission or has it been torn down?

 

[redtanrt10]

Michael, wow sorry to hear! Like you I haven't seen clutches do that and we have a number of guys who run hard and often. I know Michael Von Q said the X's cars had some clutch troubles and they've upgraded. Good luck, hope to hear more about your viper progress! Mike

 

[FastGuy68]

Sorry to hear about your clutch and transmission problems, especially after all the work you had done to the car. Are the clutch and transmission covered under warranty with the upgrades you have done or was the warranty voided by the upgrades?
Thanks,
PAVenomRT/10

First of all, I appriciate everyones response to my situation.

Secondly, let's just say this has been an expensive lesson in the book of "If you wanna play be ready to pay"!! I knew going into this "project" that I would be on my own if something went BOOM so I never even considered warranty coverage as an option. As a matter of fact I didn't even ask about the price to get a clutch from BBG over-nighted to me because I knew I would be paying for it no matter the cost.

I have to give a big THANK YOU to Toddy at BBG as he dropped everything he was doing late on a Friday evening to get me a new clutch, pressure plate and flywheel Fed Ex'd to me over night with less than an hour to get it shipped out. That's what I call SERVICE!! Unfortunetly, the clutch was just a part of the problem as it was the transmission that had the real issue which we didn't verify till the next morning.

Thankfully, the transmissions are very reasonable from DODGE and in stock! I may buy another one as a spare just in case.....

I also want to express my thanks to Ted Hughs & George Anderson who helped get me a nice new clean garage with a lift at MPH so I could pull the clutch & trans the next morning. Finally, I have to thank Bill P. for the ride and one really shagged MPH CHEVY COBALT for at least having a fun weekend over all.

 

[Roffey]

Feel free to throw out any questions you might have and I'll do my best to get you the "NO SPIN ZONE" answer.
"[/B][/COLOR]

Just hope that isn't referring to O'Reilly's warped spin zone

 

[FastGuy68]

I am happy to say my ACR has a new trans & BBG ACR-X clutch.......AND it's on the road again! I have only been able to put about 50 miles on it since the repairs but I'm happy to say there was no other damage to the car beyond the clutch & trans.

Weather permitting I'm going to get a few more short runs on it then I am headed back to the dyno!!

 

[dipapa]

How hard were you on the clutch for this part to break? Not suppose to happen on a new track oriented car .

Is your car the only reported incident of sudden clutch failure lock up?

Get all over Dodge about this. They owe you an answer.

Good you made it better & stronger now.

 

[FastGuy68]

How hard were you on the clutch for this part to break? Not suppose to happen on a new track oriented car .

Is your car the only reported incident of sudden clutch failure lock up?

Get all over Dodge about this. They owe you an answer.

Good you made it better & stronger now.

1. The clutch or car was never abused in any way to cause this type of failure. The catostophic trans failure caused the clutch to go.
2. I only know of one other "similar" failure and it was on a ACR-X.
3. Honestly can't blame Dodge for a Tremic problem and really can't blame Tremic for a material failure.
4. Yes, BBG clutch IS MUCH BETTER!

 

[FastGuy68]

Car is running great and just waiting for the weather to cooperate as it's been a little too hot (110+ heat index) for the last week to hit the dyno. If the weather does not cool down soon we will do a late night dyno run instead. Stay tuned.........

 

[Viper X]

Fast Guy,

I lost the trans in my 09 ACR too. Fortunately, mine didn't blow like yours did. It never shifted perfectly from the factory and got worse with use, then became really noisy one day. I had to have it rebuilt. After the rebuild, it still wasn't right. DC Performance found an alignment problem with the bell housing to trans junction, likely done when the trans was installed at the factory. The trans "indexes" into the bell housing with "locator" pins and the holes in the aluminum bell housing were "oblonged", so the trans never worked right. DC installed a new bell housing and I installed a trans cooler from Viper Race Headquarters (Tom Francis) and no issues with the trans since.

On the Gen IV OE clutches, they are a known issue and many have failed, mostly during track driving. Some of rhe rivets seem to fail. Not sure if anything has been updated on them yet.

Also, most track guys are running Motul Multi ATF in their TR 6060 trans rather than the factory fill. It seems to take the heat better.

Good luck with your car,

Dan

 

[TrackAire]

Fast Guy,

I lost the trans in my 09 ACR too. Fortunately, mine didn't blow like yours did. It never shifted perfectly from the factory and got worse with use, then became really noisy one day. I had to have it rebuilt. After the rebuild, it still wasn't right. DC Performance found an alignment problem with the bell housing to trans junction, likely done when the trans was installed at the factory. The trans "indexes" into the bell housing with "locator" pins and the holes in the aluminum bell housing were "oblonged", so the trans never worked right. DC installed a new bell housing and I installed a trans cooler from Viper Race Headquarters (Tom Francis) and no issues with the trans since.

On the Gen IV OE clutches, they are a known issue and many have failed, mostly during track driving. Some of rhe rivets seem to fail. Not sure if anything has been updated on them yet.

Also, most track guys are running Motul Multi ATF in their TR 6060 trans rather than the factory fill. It seems to take the heat better.

Good luck with your car,

Dan

Dan,

I too had some sort of clutch problem that would make the car shift "clunky". Problem was it would shift great one minute and then not shift smoothly 2 miles down the road. I also changed the fluid hoping that would help, but it did not. Something is going on with the oem clutch, just not sure exactly what the issue is. I replaced it wiith a BBG unit and the car can be shifted with two fingers on both the upshift and downshift. The difference was dramatic.

Trans cooler is a great idea and on the list of future mods.

Cheers,
George

 

[V10lover]

I truly enjoyed(and learned) reading about this NA project.
Any dyno #s yet?
Great project and job executed by you and BBG.
Dont worry about the trans/clutch as these things can happen even with an all stock OEM car.
Bet you are over 700hp now(flywheel)!!

I am thinking on a similar project(except the heads and wanna keep high flow cats on mine) for my ACR + NO2 for next year. Will need to get forged pistons and rods for the spray

 

[FastGuy68]

Just to update - I am still trying to get the car on the local Dyno Jet but between the weather temps & humidity and the dyno shop being somewhat backed up it's just not getting done. I REALLY WANT TO SEE THE NUMBERS and am starting to consider loading the car up and hauling it somewhere else at this point. I can't beleive it's taken this long........

BTW - the car is running great and I have tried to drive it every couple of days just to get it more broken in. Also, I have my MGW shifter finally so that along with the stoptech brake lines and Woodhouse motor mounts are next on the install list........

 

[FastGuy68]

Ok, well after MUCH DELAY I am finally happy to post my Dyno Runs! We got the car on the rollers last night and without any changes she put down 601 H.P & 575 ft. lbs. SAE corrected! Keep in mind the car only has 1300 miles on it which should loosen up and do even better in another 1500 miles or so.

There is no doubt in my mind that if we could make adjustments to the timing and fuel in the MOPAR ECM that these numbers would be higher. My gut feeling is the car is still pretty fat (rich) and is probably costing me another 15-25 H.P. Either way I am happy with the way the motor pulls and holds the torque for such a nice long time. I wasn't sure going with no cats and 3" all the way was going to turn out this well in the torque numbers but I feel justified in my decision now.


The Dyno is a Dynojet 248 and has not had very many pulls on it. The shop is a GM LS motor specialist and my Viper was the first non-GM car on it. Luckily, my car put down the highest numbers to date! It's safe to say there were a few Vette guys who had superchargers that left the shop last night very impressed at my N/A numbers with only head, intake, exhaust and ECM.

My next goal is to find a way to program the ECM for a better A/F ratio.

Finally, I have to say "Thank You" to Toddy @ BBG in Sacramento for getting me the POWER I was looking for in a completely reliable manner. He really knows his craft and I look forward to our next little project together. Truley a "CLASS ACT"

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[BlknBlu]

Very nice, those are good numbers.

Bruce