Question for T56 experts

[cyaford]

Ever since I bought my Viper over 2 years ago, I've had a problem with 6th gear. Seems the synchro is going out. I have to engage the clutch for several seconds when going into 6th, or it will grind. I know, what the hell am I doing using 6th gear?

2nd gear will sometimes grind, but only when shifting fast.

I've never had the car to the track, but would like to make a few passes before the dragstrip closes for the winter. Obviously, I want to adress the transmission and get it working properly.

I have contacted 2 reputable T56 repair companies and below are their recommendations.

www.thegearbox.org recommended the following:

-Basic Overhaul kit($178), which includes:

1st & 2nd three piece synchronizer rings
3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th carbon kevlar synchronizer rings
brass reverse synchronizer ring
front and rear seals
shift fork pads
synchronizer keys
retaining springs
shifter bushing

-Billet 3-4 synchro keys $60(he says the stock ones have a high failure rate)
-4 sets of bronze fork pads $106 for 4 sets

Here is what Six Speeds, Inc. (formerly t56rebuilds) recommended:

-Blocker Ring Kit- $169 -part of the synchro that will need to be replaced if it is worn out.
-5/6 Slider Assembly- $95 - part of synchro
-5th Gear- $95 -replace due to damage from prolonged grinding.
-6th Gear- $95 -see above

They also suggested doing the following upgrades to give me a better and more reliable transmission:

-New 1/2 Slider- $115
-New 3/4 Slider- $115
-Billet 3/4 Keys- $75
-Bronze 1-4 fork pads- $60
-Steel 3/4 Fork- $39 (Vipers before 2003 don't have the fork)
-New Input Shaft Seal- $10
-New Output Shaft Seal- $17


Does anyone with experience see anything that is not needed or know of something I should add? I've been told to definitely do the 3/4 steel fork, since I'll have the transmission out. I plan to order the parts soon. Any suggestions or smart ass comments welcome.

 

[dave6666]

Did someone say smart ass comments welcome???

KaCHING!!!

Really though, I'm no expert on the T56, and certainly at the level you're talking about. But a couple of other things I'd consider:

-> Clutch hydraulics - replace the slave when the tranny is out if it is more than 10-15K miles old. May help the shifting. Bleed it regardless. Change the fluid regardless.

-> Motor mounts. Put in Woodhouse if you don't already have them. It will help with shift accuracy.

-> Tranny mount and cross-member. Dave's Big Brakes billet piece. Ditto as above.

You combine all those with a fresh gear box and you'll start seeing more Honda's in your rear view mirror.

Dave... That was tacky... Smart ass maybe even... Dave...

 

[cyaford]

Did someone say smart ass comments welcome???

KaCHING!!!

Really though, I'm no expert on the T56, and certainly at the level you're talking about. But a couple of other things I'd consider:

-> Clutch hydraulics - replace the slave when the tranny is out if it is more than 10-15K miles old. May help the shifting. Bleed it regardless. Change the fluid regardless.

-> Motor mounts. Put in Woodhouse if you don't already have them. It will help with shift accuracy.

-> Tranny mount and cross-member. Dave's Big Brakes billet piece. Ditto as above.

You combine all those with a fresh gear box and you'll start seeing more Honda's in your rear view mirror.

Dave... That was tacky... Smart ass maybe even... Dave...

I actually figured I'd get you(and possibly Chad) to reply with a smart ass comment.

Good suggestion about the mounts. I'll get those ordered as well.

What about the clutch? Should I replace that as well? I'm sitting right under 30k miles.

 

[dave6666]

What about the clutch? Should I replace that as well? I'm sitting right under 30k miles.

Absolutely I would replace that clutch. Ebay for $165 if you like the stock Luk setup. I have been using mine for over a year now. Just be sure to get the correct needle type pilot bearing from Dodge (~$15) and the correct centering tool. I bought a universal clutch pilot tool from Toolsource.com made by KD Tools for like $18. Worked perfectly. Never have understood the people using the finger in the hole method on that cause they didn't have the right alignment tool. I mean, stabbing the tranny in is satisfying work, but unlike Chad trying to bomb the big one, I prefer a single sweeping stroke!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

When shifting, the blocker ring has friction faces (little "clutches") to get the gears to come to the same speed so the shift fork can push the synchro rings onto the gear you want. If there is drag from the flywheel/clutch/pressure plate, then the transmission parts have a tougher time to get everything accelerated/deccelerated so you can shift.

Look into the Roe clutch bar that quickens the clutch pedal action. What it really does is decrease the mechanical advantage, so while it might feel a little harder to push, the result is that the pressure plate separates further away from the flywheel. In my Gen 1, I relocated the peg that the master hydraulic cylinder attaches to (moved it away from the pivot point) and it makes a lot of difference in regards to shifting ability.

As an experiment, switch to auto trans fluid. It's thinner, should allow more friction at the blocker ring, allowing rotating parts to come to the same speed faster. As a diagnostic, it might help you decide if the blocker rings are part of the problem. If you do disassemble the transmission, it is helpful to look at the parts. It's not hard to compare used to new parts.

 

[RobZilla]

If you're doing some or most of this work yourself, your best bet may be to take the tranny out and drive it to a guy you trust. In my case I found a guy that would inspect it for free. They should be able to tell you what you need and what kind of cost you're looking at. At least once you know the exact problems you can contact those companies for exact pricing.

Another option is to replace the tranny, as I did. I got a take out from an '06 and Woodhouse really hooked me up. Don't forget to change the trans fluid often, 10-15k miles.

As Dave said, the clutch, flywheel, and mounts are good to change. Slave cylinder change is easy, same with the master although not completely necessary.

Search the threads, I know I posted a detailed description of my problem and install a few months back.

Best of luck.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Ever since I bought my Viper over 2 years ago, I've had a problem with 6th gear. Seems the synchro is going out. I have to engage the clutch for several seconds when going into 6th, or it will grind. I know, what the hell am I doing using 6th gear?

2nd gear will sometimes grind, but only when shifting fast.

I've never had the car to the track, but would like to make a few passes before the dragstrip closes for the winter. Obviously, I want to adress the transmission and get it working properly.

I have contacted 2 reputable T56 repair companies and below are their recommendations.

www.thegearbox.org recommended the following:

-Basic Overhaul kit($178), which includes:

1st & 2nd three piece synchronizer rings
3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th carbon kevlar synchronizer rings
brass reverse synchronizer ring
front and rear seals
shift fork pads
synchronizer keys
retaining springs
shifter bushing

-Billet 3-4 synchro keys $60(he says the stock ones have a high failure rate)
-4 sets of bronze fork pads $106 for 4 sets

Here is what Six Speeds, Inc. (formerly t56rebuilds) recommended:

-Blocker Ring Kit- $169 -part of the synchro that will need to be replaced if it is worn out.
-5/6 Slider Assembly- $95 - part of synchro
-5th Gear- $95 -replace due to damage from prolonged grinding.
-6th Gear- $95 -see above

They also suggested doing the following upgrades to give me a better and more reliable transmission:

-New 1/2 Slider- $115
-New 3/4 Slider- $115
-Billet 3/4 Keys- $75
-Bronze 1-4 fork pads- $60
-Steel 3/4 Fork- $39 (Vipers before 2003 don't have the fork)
-New Input Shaft Seal- $10
-New Output Shaft Seal- $17


Does anyone with experience see anything that is not needed or know of something I should add? I've been told to definitely do the 3/4 steel fork, since I'll have the transmission out. I plan to order the parts soon. Any suggestions or smart ass comments welcome.

I have done business with a few T56 shops for high HP applications. I can't say enough good things about SixSpeedsInc. What they are suggesting is is what I would do. They have build my most recent tranny as it has had zero problems to date.

JD

 

[dave6666]

Oh yeah. One more thing.

Perfect time to install an upgraded shifter if you've been thinking about that.