Should I have lost against a Porsche Turbo?

[SUN RA KAT]

I think the late model Porsches are AWD in turbo configuration. They are pretty close in power-to-weight ratio to our Vipers.

But a Yellow Viper looks a whole lot better than a Porsche turbo, and be honest, you wanted the other cars on the closed course to see your car better, so you went slower so they could get a better look.

 

[allanlambo]

i wouldnt necassarily agree with the statement that a viper looks a whole lot better than a porsche turbo. both are very cool cars, especially in yellow !

 

[Gerald]

Jim

...

Time to get that Roe supercharger..


Gerald

 

[Dr Roof]

I had a similar experience with a Porsche. I was real mad!!! I can't wait to meet him on that closed strip again!

 

[onerareviper]

Raced one from 45-150 up a slight hill. Pulled 15-20 car lengths. I have a 1998 GTS with around 430-440 RWHP (Exhaust/Filters/Tubes) and 3.73 gears. The 30+ or so horses and the 3.73 gears probably helped.

My questions would be:

1.) At 60MPH in a stock 3.07 Viper, you should have been in 2'nd gear at the start. Were you? Or did you make the mistake of being in 3'rd...

2.) At 80MPH in a stock 3.07 Viper, you should have been in 3'rd gear at the start. Were you? Or did you make the mistake of being in 4'th...

P.S. Per JonB - " b) On the street, or roadcourse, the 3.55 acceleration is about 15% faster, say from 20mph - 140 mph, than an OE 3.07. FACT"

P.S.S. - Performance shift points:

Rear 1st2nd3rd 4th 5th
3.07 58 76 114 151 204*
3.31 54 70 105 140 189
3.54 50 66 99 131 177
3.73 48 63 94 124 168
4.10 44 57 85 113 153

 

[onerareviper]

JMcGuire,

No wonder why you didn't pass him - gotta keep that monster V-10, or any engine for that matter, in its power zone. Take your Viper out tonight, cruise at 60MPH in 4'th, slam the gas until you get to 115MPH. Have someone (or yourself) time how long it takes. Now do the same test, but start in 2'nd gear. At the top of 3'rd you should be going 115. Make sure you shift as fast as possible into 3'rd (of course). I bet the time difference will be SIGNIFICANT! I'll take an educated guess and say around 2-4 seconds. Now imagine what 2-4 seconds at that speed equates to in car lengths. Betcha 10-20.... So for God sakes, slap on that new rubber, and smoke that Porsche like no tomorrow!

 

[allanlambo]

i have no doubt a viper gts could beat a stock twin turbo porsche, but to beat one by 15-20 car lengths? i dont think so.

 

[ronviper]

JMcGUIRE, the dinning room set looks much better than the tires. By the way if he jumps you with accelerating first playing cath up is a lot harder to do. Also down shifting to third would have put you higher in your rpm curve which would help performance. Keep the faith.

 

[onerareviper]

Hey Allenlambo,

Well I guess you'll have to call the Porsche owner - he's at home crying like a little beeeaaattchhh.

It was at least 50 yards ahead. Not sure about the exact car lengths, and too tired to do math. We raced repeatedly with the same result. Don't know the guy, so can't deny/confirm his driving skill. Although, from a roll, not much skill involved. No reason to lie, as I know many cars can beat me in a straight-away.

A new M5 was my only other race. Pulled a bit more on this guys than the Porsche 911 TT.

Later

 

[Martin D]

I agree, it is in the gear. You should have pulled that car down the highway.....

Good luck with your next encounter.

Regards,

 

[Tom Shapiro]

Hey Jon, time to trade up to the 03!

 

[bad viper]

You don't know..maybe his wasn't stock?
Those cars are actually de-tuned at 415 HP.
With a few mods mine makes 505 rwhp or 560 flywheel.
this picture is from one with 560 flywheel.. but I don't think
mine will pull that 212 MPH speed..maybe??
there is also a one minute video if anyone wants I'll try and find it.( of the instruments) during this guys run also.

You must be registered for see images

 

[allanlambo]

again, i do believe a viper gts is faster than a porsche tt, but no way, no how, no where will a stock viper pull a stock tt, by 15-20 car lengths. not given 2 competent drivers.

 

[NosLaser]

The power to weight ratios are pretty close, however the driveline loss will be a hindrance for the Porsche.

For the guy who said he beat one by 15-20 cars, I am really impressed that you didn't say 15-20 car 'links' because that's what your story sounds like. In order for it to be a kill, the other guy has to actually be racing you. As Allanlambo said, a stock GTS will most likely beat a stock Porche TT, but can you fathom the horsepower you would have to be making to pull 15-20 cars on a vehicle making over 400HP??? Honestly, do you realize just how ridiculous that claim sounds? Perhaps the excitement skewed your vision momentarily. No flames, just reality.

Regards,

 

[jcaspar1]

A little math:

At 150 mph onerareviper's car is covering 220 feet per second or 16 Viper lengths per second. If he were .7 second ahead at 150 that would be 11 car lengths. 1.5 seconds ahead is 24 car lengths.

Doesn't sound too unreasonable.....

 

[onerareviper]

Everybody,

I really don't care who believes me. This is the internet, and anyone can 'type' anything. Although, I do appreciate the math, jcaspar1. For those of you that keep saying 'stock', MY VIPER IS NOT STOCK. I have around 30-40 more RWHP than a stock GTS, and also have 3.73 gears. IMO, and the opinion of others, it is a good bit faster than a stock Viper. 440 RWHP / .85 = 517HP at the flywheel. Compared to a stock twin turbo's 415HP. Not to mention, more than likely, the Viper has a good bit more HP/Torque under the curve, due to the cubic inches. My car also weighs a little less than a 911TT, if memory serves. So although my story is, for some reason, unbelievable to some of you - it is fact. And I don't think 50 yards is 'all that much' considering your moving 150 MPH. In a 1/4 mile drag race, yes. I would guess that our race covered close to 3/4 a mile. 50 yards ahead is not all that much.

P.S. - And if you believe the magazines numbers, you are a fool. Those low 12 numbers are achieved by dumping the clutch at 6000 RPM in a Porsche TT. In the real world, people don't want to destroy there $120,000 car after 6 months of driving. Normal launches in a 911 TT 'stock', probably close to high 12's. This is what I've seen, non-modified.

P.S.S. - Allenlambo, since you take such faith in the magazine numbers, one issue a while back (I think Motortrend), did a 1 mile race with some high performance cars. I am 99% sure the Viper and 911 TT were in the event. I would be interested to see the time difference, and speed. If I recall, the Viper GTS won the event. And at 170 MPH (How fast the Viper was going at the mile), 50+ yards is nothing. I bet if someone has this issue, and some math skills, they can calculate the 'yards ahead' the Viper was..... This car may have been the older 911 TT 400HP, not sure, but at least it will give an idea. Of course, I don't look to magazines for factual information.

 

[toddt]

JMguire said he started in 4th!

3rd would have been a much better choice at that 60mph start speed. Also, it helps to slip the clutch, spin up the engine, and drop the clutch to begin the run--that gives you an instant momentum jump.

He hindered himself, and yet stayed with the porsche fine.

I don't understand where all this awe about the TT is coming from. Especially from 60. Please! AWD has no significant effect in roll-ons like that. In fact, it HINDERS the porsche because of driveline losses, as the above poster astutely pointed out.

Look at the numbers:
Viper TT
0-100 9.56 9.68
1mile 30.49@164 [email protected]
Qmile 11.92@116 12.19@119

You can see from these numbers that the TT has the advantage down low.

Bottom line: I believe you would have done better if you had gone from 5th to 3rd to start the runs. Slip the clutch and drop it to begin.

Starting from 4th, you'd have trouble with a 2002 zog, so beware.

 

[allanlambo]

onerareviper, if you look a few posts above your last post, i specificly wrote "stock vs stock" not your modified viper to a stock porsche. i have no doubt that a modified viper can beat a stock porsche by any amount of carlengths, same would hold true vice versa also.

i definately do not hold magazine reports in high regard, but looks like todd posted the numbers on your one mile run for you. 4 tenths of a second difference.

also saying people wont drop their clutch on a turbo is like saying people wont powershift a viper, some do and some dont. as to what youve seen with your own eyes, i have seen bone stock 996tt's turning 11.90's consistantly, with my own eyes.

 

[onerareviper]

Alright Allen,

Stock to Stock it is a close race. I guess I just got p*ssy because people were doubting my experience. If I go out tonight, and get beat by a yugo, I would tell you guys. I really don't care. I'm 31, not 16 (no flames). Although, I wouldn't mind another 4 years of college! And I also understand that ANY car can be made fast, especially in a straight line. Just takes $$$$.

On a humorous note, you posted a 5 minute Motortrend video that demonstrates the 1 mile test I was referring too. http://www.espritfactfile.com/videos/motortrend/MT3-med.ASF The Viper won at 30.1 at 173.3 MPH. Almost a full second faster than the TT porsche #'s posted. Remember, the Viper was traveling 173.3 MPH. Hmmmmm. Sounds like 15+ car lengths. Now for the math. Not exact, but here goes: 180 MPH = 1 mile in 20 seconds. 1760 yards in a mile. 1760/20 = 88 YARDS per second!!!! 88 yards = 3168 in. Viper won by approx. 3168 inches. Vipers length is 175.11 in. Now 3168/175.11 = 18 Viper car lengths. I'm now officially a bored geek, but I'm ready to go out and throw done some Iron City beers. Maybe NOSLASER can brush up on his 8'th grade algerbra, and realize it was VERY possible in a slightly modified Viper. And I'll make sure I don't race any VW's either

 

[allanlambo]

onerareviper, i have no doubt of your expertise. i dont think you should use figures from the motor trend test against the other figures todd posted. cars perform differently under all conditions. i have no doubt though that the viper is slightly faster than the porsche on the top end, down below 150mph it is close!

hey, as a side note, the viper did blow up after the top speed run in that video!

do they all do that? just kidding.

 

[allanlambo]

oh as a side note, ill be 33 in december, guess that makes me the old man of the bunch!

 

[onerareviper]

Yeah,

We are absolutely the old ones.... I will take an educated guess and say NOSLASER and VW are the young ones... Young Whippersnappers.

Later

P.S. - Yeah, the Viper started spraying Antifreeze. Kind'a funny, being the Viper is very reliable - for an exotic. Oh well, sh*t happens.

 

[ZX1100]

I'm sure it would be a close race but just a few days ago our buddies were out having some fun. A Viper GTS (not sure on year, 97-98) against a Porsche TT (2002). They did all the different runs you can imagine with the Viper coming out on top. The TT did a little better when it started from higher speeds like 100mph or so though. Both were stock cars. Porsche brakes were awesome but the car couldn't handle corners as well as the Viper from what I was told.

 

[bad viper]

HAD TO BE DRIVER if TT couldn't handle corners as well as Viper.
Owned and tracked them both myself.Just my opinion..

 

[onerareviper]

TurboVR6,

First of all, you are a *****.

Second of all, I said 'I don't care if someone beats me in a race'. Read that sentence again, and observe the word 'I'. I don't speak for every Viper owner. An ***** can own a Viper, Corvette, Yugo, an apparently, even a VW...

Third of all, my previous car was a 10 second mustang. It cost me $10,000 total. So the F*ck what? The Viper is superior in every way, except 1/4 mile times. Why would anybody buy a Viper, if all they were interested in was 1/4 mile times? You have a very immature view of automobiles, and I doubt your even 24. I'm guessing 18.

Fourth, since all your interested in is 1/4 mile performance vs. cost, I will include 2 pics of a 10 second car for $10,000. To bad you weren't around when I sold it for $9,200.

 

[96 GTS]

Turbo VR6,

You can whine, gripe, and brag all you want. At the end of the day (or end of the 1/4 mile), you go home in a VW, and I go home in a Viper.

 

[Sonny 00 GTS ACR]

Actually, for the same money, TurboVR6 could drive home in 7.6 Vw's.
I am not a drag racer but I do have a great deal of respect for those of you who are. That being said, I wonder myself about discussions of Porsches, Vipers and other "exotic" cars arguing about who is fastest at the dragstrip. When anyone who wants can go out and buy a 10 sec, $10,000 Mustang or VW, I guess I just don't get it. To compare a Viper to a Porsche why not look to a road course where they both shine. It just seems like a more complete test to me.

I don't mean this to be a negative post or a road racing vs drag racing argument, but I'd be interested in hearing why you think it makes sense to spend that kind of money and only use one part of the car's strength?

 

[Paolo Castellano]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bad viper:
HAD TO BE DRIVER if TT couldn't handle corners as well as Viper.
Owned and tracked them both myself.Just my opinion..

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wayne, it cannot be the driver! I was driving the stock 1997 Viper GTS( Not my '96 GTS with a full cage which is getting the frame recall done at the moment) against the Porsche! I went for a ride with the guy to see how he was handling the curves, on the closed track scenario of course, He was turning in too soon and taking the wrong lines which was diminishing his exit speeds. Even though he has some inexperience with technical road courses, this guy has big ball$ and can really get on the car in a straight line and has been known to blow by semi trucks on a 2-lane highway @ 180+. He then let me drive the car through the same series of curves 5-6 times and the Porsche actually understeered at the part of the curve where we were pulling the highest amount of G's. I could not believe this as I have been programmed to believe the Porsche AWD's as having ungodly amounts of road holding ability. The stock 1997 GTS did no such thing with 5 year old rubber on the car at the same speed on the highest g-pulling portion of the curve exit. We ran from a dead stop, the Porsche slightly pulling me off the line, but by the time I got mid-way through 3rd, I was 2-3 cars ahead, by the end of 4th, I was far ahead. I have to watch the video to see exactly how many cars by the top of 4th. I will have to say this though, I observed that the Porsche was pulling dead even with me from the 30-40 MPH rolling start and at the lower end up to about 100 I only seemed to make noticable gains when he had to shift through more gears than I did. Also, when we rolled from 100-120(on the closed course, of course) we seemed to accelerate dead even all the way up to the top. That's my experience and that is exactly the way it hapened, we both had passengers to verify the facts! Paolo
P.S. I also had the chubbier of the two passengers to boot!

 

[TOOOFST]

PAOLO PAOLO PAOLO

 

[Tom86ZT]

Paolo, first off, chubby, chubby, ok yeah i am chubby. We did have about a 70 weight deficit in people, 180+220=400 vs approx 150+180=330 and you forgot to mention that we had an almost full tank of gas and the porsche had almost no gas. How little gas you may be asking? Well approximately 4-5 minutes after the first 2 runs (this is after slowing down to 40-65mph on the course) the porsche ran out of gas, so it had an even better weight advantage when we ran from a roll. It was a blast, can't wait for you to get your car back Paolo, I'd love a ride in that thing.

Tom