So what about these street racing links?

[Y2K5SRT]

By the esteemed Mike Brunton:
Hmmm, I smell hypocrisy. Wonder what the party line will be about these? Last I heard it was not OK to link to forums that allowed non-VCA-kosher content - but I can link to 50 forums that allow that without censorship - so why is this link censored?

http://www.vviperalley.com/

(take out the extra "V" in the start of V i p e r a l l e y and it'll work.

if someone intends to pull this post, there better be a [******] good explanation, or I'll be on the warpath.

Gosh! I am just so darn diddley sorry that I didn't take the time to go to the original link and watch the video. I guess you DO want everybody to be babysat throughout all of this. After all, you certainly didn't come to this very informative thread to HIJACK IT and cause trouble, did you? See, when somebody posts a link directly to a video with the description that includes "bikes going on the shoulder to avoid traffic" and "awesome street race", it makes it just a little harder to ignore. Likewise, even a good attorney would have difficulty suing this forum or its sponsors if there is no direct mention or direct link to a street racing video. I am pretty sure you have been around long enough to remember the constant tongue-in-cheek "closed course" posts which inundated this site with relative impunity. It is only when you start waving the "street racing" flag that it became a problem.

But, in order to satisfy your desire to see further clamping down (why, I don't know - the Alley site is doing just fine without this BS), I have edited out the direct link and shown only the link to the forum itself. I will be sure to try and follow every link and clamp down on all of them as you would like me to do. More work for me and more happy campers. I appreciate it. Oh, and I also believe that the "bad words" list here is too restrictive, including tuner names and "competing" web sites. They should be free and clear. Unfortunately, my powers are extremely limited and I have no authority to change that.

Mike, I think the world of you and you know it. But this is ridiculous. You have an EXCELLENT discussion going on with minimal BS and then a couple "alley boys" feel the need to come in and screw it up for no other reason than to be antagonistic. Nobody from this site is hijacking the threads on the Alley site as there is no reason to do so (hopefully you banned "Windbreaker" successfully). What is the purpose other than to cause trouble? Moderating this site is a big enough task without people jumping in just to be asses.

Your points, many VERY valid, were made here long ago. There is also a forum specifically for such suggestions as well as many, many VCA officers listed in the back of VIPER Magazine that I would encourage you to contact. I firmly think you SHOULD go on the warpath and I will back you up on many of your arguments. In the meantime, your warpath "collateral damage" includes ticking off a hell of a lot of people here that could care less about the board policy when you hijack a thread that is very meaningful - and for your own political agenda. Focus your anger towards those that deserve it and try to be understanding while some of us try to make this a little easier for all. Forcing a reluctant hand is not a good thing for anybody and just makes you look bad for doing so. And don't forget you also have a much less restrictive site available that is for the people and by the people. Unfortunately, the name is edited out here.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Chris,

You're not getting it.

FIrst of all, this was NOT a Viperalley "raiding party". Second, it was not emailed to me for a response, and it was not a political statement intended to get people to visit viper alley. I was actually reading the thread out of interest, and thought "hey, how come THIS video is allowed?". The answer was "because it's linked from another site". So, if links from another site are allowed (as they obviously are), then I did just that. And you censored it - and you censored the original post. Now, granted you were even-handed (which I respect), but only after I forced the issue. The original link was not edited until I partook of the same latitude and posted an identical link (content wise).

Why?

You had responded to the thread, so you obviously knew about the link. The stated reason for no racing vids was liability for the VCA. Liability is what you may have in the event of an accident, so don't tell me you guys are screening videos and making judgement calls on whether it could lead to VCA liability - I know that's not the case.

So what's left? The stated reason that links to vviperalley.com were not allowed was because the site contained material not suitable for users of this site. Let's see if some WELL KNOWN links are also censored... (I know all you mods are itching to edit this post and take these links out - if you can, leave it up for Chris to see - if you must edit, at least just change some letters so he knows the sites I linked to)

www.corvetteforum.com
www.hustler.com
www.*******.com
www.rotten.com
][******] <-- (vviperalley.com)
www.vipernation.com <-- (vvipernation.com)


These are all WELL KNOWN links. I wonder which will get censored? I won't know until I submit this post, but I'm willing to BET that the last two will and none of the others.

That doesn't make sense. It's clear to anyone with a even a peanut sized brain that you guys can't censor ALL links - we all know that. But isn't it strange that ONLY competing sites to this one get censored? Why? Who doesn't know that ******* existed and is objectionable content?

The stated reason from Joe a while back was that it had NOTHING to do with fear of competition, or criticism of the VCA, but rather the content on those sites was objectionable.

You know and I know that isn't the case.

Let me be clear. If I was Joe, I wouldn't allow links to vviperalley.com or vvipernation.com either! **** yes I'd censor them! But I wouldn't BS people and make up excuses why I did it - I would say "why would you think I should help my competition?".

That's the problem - being treated like kids or like fools. I'm not stupid - I know why you censor the other sites. Just don't lie about it. And if you say "well if you know then why do you need to ask?" - well, if the stated answer was "you should know the reason so we won't go into it" then FINE, but just don't lie to me. As they say, don't pi$$ on me and tell me it's raining.

If people would just be a little more up-front, then I woudln't have a problem.

I don't care that you censor street racing videos - I agree with it. I agree with censoring the ******** clad pictures. I don't agree that I can't say damm or **** - the reason is because Jay is really religous and he feels those are "bad" words (as I understand), but I also realize that Jay (and maybe Joe) and I have different viewpoints about that particular issue. I'm not going to cry because I couldn't say those words. I accept and agree that you guys can make decisions and stand by those decisions.

The ONLY part I DO NOT AGREE WITH is when you lie to people to justify your position. That doesn't sit right with me and never has.

Like when someone tells me that DC has ZERO control over this site. Then someone else (who has been in the VCA from the get-go) LAUGHS OUT LOUD when I say that and tells me that DC has all the control in the world over this site.

Just don't lie to me and think I'm too dumb to pick up on it. I'm a grown adult - I can handle the truth.

That's my only beef. I don't care about all the "stuff" that happened back then, because frankly without that, the alley would never have come about. So in a way, we owe you guys one. In addition, some folks on the alley care much for who has more users, or which site gets more posts - again I don't care. I just do what I personally enjoy, and that is spend more time there than here. I don't expect you or anyone to be upset and try to win me back, and I don't expect you to eventually cave under VA pressure.

All I expect, actually demand, is to not be lied to under the pretense that I'm a god-dammed oaf and I'll never pick up on it!

And I KNOW you agree with me Chris but you don't feel like you can say it - and that *****!

EDIT:
Interestingly vipernation.com is now allowed. It wasn't before. I wonder if that was part of the deal when you guys bought viperclub.com? I dunno... maybe .com is still censored? Who knows. But alley is still censored, and that makes my point perfectly.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

And I agree with your reply almost 100%. In my own very personal opinion, we censor way too many words. Did you know that the word "damm" (although properly spelled) appears in a "G" rated movie? Yep, Gone With the Wind. So why in the world would we censor such a wussy word here? You got me. I have argued against it to no avail.

As to the street racing links, "Hear no evil, see no evil". As a moderator for the site, I don't have the time and patience to look at every link. What we are to watch out for is basically "keywords" that indicate it is a street racing video/testimonial. The post you refer to had no such reference and I chose not to follow the link. Much like the blind eye that was turned towards the "closed course" posts of before. It is when it is "advertised" as street racing or describes "dodging traffic" that it is slated for an early death. Ironically, it wasn't until you and the other guy (another cynic) posted that it was recognized as a street race scenario. So kudos to you two - your Junior Moderator badges are on the way. Otherwise I thought the post had some VERY good information in it. Thus I edited all of the links accordingly, including yours.

As to the *************************** (okay, a few extra "*'s"), I don't understand it either. Advertising a site is one thing (in which case we delete those posts/signatures anyway), but a simple reference to a site should not be edited. The fact that it is a competing site is NO reason to edit it out. Indeed, I personally believe that the "alley" is an appropriate site in that there is no ****** allowed. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to edit every single site that contaiins foul language. I think just about every site on the Net eventually links back to something less savory. I agree with you 100% that editing for politics is inappropriate. Unfortunately, I have absolutely zero control over that, among many other things.

Sorry I won't be able to provide any more replies to this thread, but I am taking some long-overdue R&R from the computer for a couple weeks. Catch you then.

Chris

 

[Jay Herbert]

Mike, I am going to step into this and try to make it a littel more clear for you. Teh policies that posteres agree to when they sign up fo this forum are:

Posting Polcy:

1. All posts must conform to a standard that is acceptable in content to Prime Time Broadcast Network TV (TVPG ), no ******, *********** or profanity). Posts not maintaining this standard will be deleted.

2. Personal assaults, threats, use of copyrighted material, fraudulent statements, or comments derogatory to any ethnicity or orientation will be deleted.

3. Negative statements about vendors, customers, or others must be first hand, and substantiated. Furthermore, we reserve the right to hold negative posts until substantiated, and to give the parties reasonable time to work it out.

4. Attempts at thread hijacking (malicious posting in a fashion to a topic, with intent to change the initial focus) will be deleted.

5. Redundancy, bumping a topic to bring its' position to the top of the forum, or multiple new threads that are intended with purpose to annoy will be deleted.

6. Classified ad posts to the forums will be deleted. Non-Viper Commercial posts will be deleted with the exception of approved commercial posts by site sponsors. Please note that classified ads, in our classifieds area, are free to VCA members.

7. Links, or specific descriptive mention (by declaring their name, even if it is not an exact link) of web sites that do not meet the policies set fourth in our existing policy guidelines, or that use licensed or copywrited material without permission is prohibited

8. The Viper Club of America nor its sponsors condone illegal street racing. As such, there will be no posts promoting or reporting such activity. This includes descriptions, pictures, or videos. The VCA encourages you to "take it to the track" and drive safely.

9. Any suggestions, ideas, or discussions on web site policy must be posted to the appropriate (web site suggestions) topic area. We welcome your input.


If a web site does not meet the above policies, it is prohibited. That simple.