They totaled my Viper today
- Thread starter black mamba1
- Start date
OP
OP
black mamba1
Enthusiast
Having sex with the gas pedal...the guy was hot rodding in my Viper trying to see what she could do.
I'm just getting caught up, and invite your call for any needed follow up. I did NOT read this entire thread.....
GlennSullivan
Viper Owner
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Posts
- 71
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- 0
And I guess he found out huh!
Most people really don't understand how absolutely violent high horsepower cars can be They will and frequently do bite them in the Ass.
CSXT802
Enthusiast
I can't believe this was allowed. When I was working as a tech at a Buick dealer ( 20 years old, fresh out of college). I Walked to my lift bay to find a 1987 Buick GNX #317 parked there. With the service manager standing next to it waiting for me. I was instructed to preform a tune up on the car. I was told there would be no test driving the car and that he would pull the car out when the work was finished. At first I was insulted. When I checked the odometer and saw that this 11 year old car had just over 3,000 miles on it. Thats when the light switch went on. I preformed the service.Then lovingly boxed up all the removed original parts, bagged up the boxes and placed them in the trunk. After all I am a car guy and the owner wishes should be obeyed.
eucharistos
Enthusiast
CSXT802
Enthusiast
good 1st post
Thanks. Looking back on that day (12 years ago now) it's the way things should be done. I was 20 years old and had no business driving that car. Young people do stupid things. I was no exception.
What everyone should do after modifications is get their vehicle appraised by a certified appraiser. Document your vehicle's condition and all extra modifications installed to get the "value" of your car set in stone. This document is then forwarded to your insurance company, kept on file, and is the holy grail of what your vehicle's "worth" is. Of course, your coverage policy and subsequent payments will be based on this appraisal.
I think, for most people, they do not want to pay any extra premiums on the base insurance policy, so they do not get a custom appraisal which valuates the car at higher than standard black book numbers. But this is a case in point where you would have wished to have the appraisal and not taken chances. These statements are by no means meant to take a jab at black mamba, I just want to point this option out to those that have invested $$$$ into their car and would wish to see it paid for in the case of an accident.
I think, for most people, they do not want to pay any extra premiums on the base insurance policy, so they do not get a custom appraisal which valuates the car at higher than standard black book numbers. But this is a case in point where you would have wished to have the appraisal and not taken chances. These statements are by no means meant to take a jab at black mamba, I just want to point this option out to those that have invested $$$$ into their car and would wish to see it paid for in the case of an accident.
You have Obama care ... we have been cursed with Gov. Insurance (it has become a tax subsidy). When I called about a value policy they informed me that my cost would be about 10% per year after my 43% discount. So, that would be 5,700 per year. That's a couple hundred more than double what I pay now. Without the 'fake' safe driver discount my Collission coverage alone would be about $2800 with my comprehensive at $2500 and my Liability about 1,000.
Sounds like a better deal just to buy a new highly modified supercar every ten years? My standard policy covers $1,000 worth of electronics and $5,000 for other mods.
Ted
For those that care - not every Province in Canada has Government insurance. Some people vote for liberty, other don't.
Think California versus, say, Texas. British Columbia would be California and Alberta would be Texas.
Insurance in Alberta is free market.
Greg
Black Moon
Enthusiast
BM,
Any update?
Any update?
Greg's correct, I think Sask also has Gov insurance. Alberta insurance cost was about 50% on my first car, then about 25% for my second car and third car could be only 10% of BC's cost. BC gives no addittion discount for more than one car or family, married etc.
C.Hermsen
Enthusiast
I wasn't sure what you were talking about, so I looked up "Hot dogging" on Urban Dictionary!
OP
OP
black mamba1
Enthusiast
Ok guys, here is an update.
They offered me nothing. Absolutely nothing. I faxed their insurance company all the receipts. They kept claiming they didnt understand the modifications. Then they said they had to get a Nationwide Specialist who understood Vipers. The Specialist called and said he got all my documents, and that he would have a decision for me in a day or two. TEN DAYS LATER he called and said he never received the list of modificaitions. Now, I am already a month and a half into this so I go off on the guy. I said this is the most unprofessional experience I have ever had with an insurance company. He apologizes, then calls me in about two days and said we will only give you $47,000 for your Viper, and we wont fix it. In so many words, I told him to go **** himself.
The dealership and the body shop refuse to offer anything..so to court we go. Wnen the body shop found out I was suing, in so many words, they basically told me to "go right ahead. We f*cked up your car and totaled it. You dont have a Viper, and we dont give two sh*ts about our crashing your car and we aint gonna offer you shi*t. Sue us.".
So thats what I am doing.
Anyway, I am selling the engine, the engine is undamaged and runs fine. The engine has a built lower end, cam, Manley Rods, CP Pistons, bearings, etc..she is rated to withstand over 1000 hp to the rear wheel. We took a little compression out of her in anticipation of foreced induction. She dynoed at 512 rwhp and 537 rwtq on Mustang dyno. You can email me at [email protected] if you are interested.
These motherf*ckers are not going to keep me from getting back into the Viper experience.
They offered me nothing. Absolutely nothing. I faxed their insurance company all the receipts. They kept claiming they didnt understand the modifications. Then they said they had to get a Nationwide Specialist who understood Vipers. The Specialist called and said he got all my documents, and that he would have a decision for me in a day or two. TEN DAYS LATER he called and said he never received the list of modificaitions. Now, I am already a month and a half into this so I go off on the guy. I said this is the most unprofessional experience I have ever had with an insurance company. He apologizes, then calls me in about two days and said we will only give you $47,000 for your Viper, and we wont fix it. In so many words, I told him to go **** himself.
The dealership and the body shop refuse to offer anything..so to court we go. Wnen the body shop found out I was suing, in so many words, they basically told me to "go right ahead. We f*cked up your car and totaled it. You dont have a Viper, and we dont give two sh*ts about our crashing your car and we aint gonna offer you shi*t. Sue us.".
So thats what I am doing.
Anyway, I am selling the engine, the engine is undamaged and runs fine. The engine has a built lower end, cam, Manley Rods, CP Pistons, bearings, etc..she is rated to withstand over 1000 hp to the rear wheel. We took a little compression out of her in anticipation of foreced induction. She dynoed at 512 rwhp and 537 rwtq on Mustang dyno. You can email me at [email protected] if you are interested.
These motherf*ckers are not going to keep me from getting back into the Viper experience.
v10enomous
Enthusiast
Get the money and then start the proceedings... Seek punative damages... Like I posted here somewhere in this thread about my brand new 1981 280zx that was stolen from the dealership, it's just a car to them and they live in a sea of cars. Their take is that it's strictly an insurance matter and $hit happens. They aren't just going to throw money at you unless you somehow force their hand. I didn't pursue my case because the only real damage beyond the car itslef was that I was out of a car for a month or so when they had to see if the car would be recovered and I was compensated for a rental
bmw2nv2000
Enthusiast
If the car was just insured as a stock 04 Viper with no extra coverage for mods then I would say $47k is a very sweet offer. No offense but I dont think your car would have brought $47k before it was wrecked on the open market. I do hope this all works out to your satisfaction. And out of curiousity what kind of number are you looking for them to pay you?
Flexx91
Viper Owner
Cannot seek or be awarded punitive damages in a civil case unless he can prove that the act the malicious and intentional. The act was appears to careless and unintentional but not malicious.
v10enomous
Enthusiast
I didn't say that he would actually get them but it is always somewhat subjective and it could generate a better and more expedient settlement. Intent is hard to prove or disprove unless you somehow know what was in the guy's head at the time.
United States
Punitive damages are a settled principle of common law in the United States.[15] They are a matter of state law, and thus differ in application from state to state. In many states, including California and Texas, punitive damages are determined based on statute; elsewhere, they may be determined solely based on case law. Many state statutes are the result of insurance industry lobbying to impose "caps" on punitive damages; however, several state courts have struck down these statutory caps as unconstitutional.[16]
The general rule is that punitive damages cannot be awarded for breach of contract. But if an independent tort is committed in a contractual setting, punitive damages can be awarded for the tort.[17] Punitive damages are usually reserved for when the defendant has displayed actual intent to cause harm (such as purposefully rear-ending someone else's car), rather than in cases of mere negligence.[18]
Punitive damages are a focal point of the "tort reform" debate in the United States, where numerous highly-publicized multi-million dollar verdicts have led to a fairly common perception that punitive damage awards tend to be excessive. However, statistical studies by law professors and the Department of Justice have found that punitive damages are only awarded in two percent of civil cases which go to trial, and that the median punitive damage award is between $38,000 and $50,000.[16]
There is no maximum dollar amount of punitive damages that a defendant can be ordered to pay. In response to judges and juries which award high punitive damages verdicts, the Supreme Court of the United States has made several decisions which limit awards of punitive damages through the due process of law clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution. In a number of cases, the Court has indicated that a 4:1 ratio between punitive and compensatory damages is high enough to lead to a finding of constitutional impropriety, and that any ratio of 10:1 or higher is almost certainly unconstitutional.
In Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants (1994), a very high and therefore often criticized amount of damages has been awarded to a woman who burned herself with allegedly too hot coffee she purchased from McDonald's.
In BMW of North America, Inc. v. Gore (1996), the Court ruled that an excessive punitive award can amount to an arbitrary deprivation of property in violation of due process. The Court held that punitive damages must be reasonable, as determined by the degree of reprehensibility of the conduct that caused the plaintiff's injury, the ratio of punitive damages to compensatory damages, and any comparable criminal or civil penalties applicable to the conduct. In State Farm Auto. Ins. v. Campbell (2003), the Court held that punitive damages may only be based on the acts of the defendants which harmed the plaintiffs. The Court also elaborated on the factors courts must apply when reviewing a punitive award under due process principles.
Most recently, in Philip Morris USA v. Williams (2007), the Court ruled that punitive damage awards cannot be imposed for the direct harm that the misconduct caused others, but may consider harm to others as a function of determining how reprehensible it was. More reprehensible misconduct justifies a larger punitive damage award, just as a repeat offender in criminal law may be punished with a tougher sentence. Dissenting in the Williams case, Justice John Paul Stevens found that the "nuance eludes me," suggesting that the majority had resolved the case on a distinction that makes no difference.
Black Moon
Enthusiast
Can you get 47k and your wrecked car? You could sell to one of the resellers or part it out yourself. That would be worth considering in my butt hole opinion.
dave6666
Enthusiast
We have a concensus of butts forming.
For the sake of Black Mamba, given that this is now a legal matter, we probably want to hold our thoughts on what the value of his car was. Given the fact that it looked like the dealership was on other boards, I would imagine they would screen shot every post they see that would susbsstantiate the lowest offer possible.
dave6666
Enthusiast
Tucker I agree with you to an extent, but I think of more relevance the body shop would seek historical sales figure from sites like ebay, Auto Trader etc. A bunch of fat car dudes posting BS - their opinions - on a forum is probably not a big concern. Sales figures of past sales are factual supporting evidence.
If I was the owner of that car I would be researching those statistics.
If I was the owner of that car I would be researching those statistics.
True, just hard to find an add online for built motor SRT's with adjoining comments regarding their value. In a situation like this, the comments posted above would be used without question, and can't do anything but hurt the OP.
Martin
Enthusiast
Things like this piss me off to no end. They crashed your car, caused you many hours of inconvenience, most certainly caused you stress and angush, not to mention distracting you from your normal gainful employment (could be very costly in this economy and marketplace...). And they're taking a hard-nosed stance on the value of your car and refusing to pay for the modifications?
I hope you have a good lawyer, and I hope your state allows for reimbursement of reasonable attorney fees if they force you to take them to court.
If they won't agree to pay you for the engine that you had built from the ground-up, why not just accept the $47k and pull the engine and let them have the rest of the car? That would seem fair and reasonable to me...
I hope you have a good lawyer, and I hope your state allows for reimbursement of reasonable attorney fees if they force you to take them to court.
If they won't agree to pay you for the engine that you had built from the ground-up, why not just accept the $47k and pull the engine and let them have the rest of the car? That would seem fair and reasonable to me...
