Tuner - customer mediation or arbitration?

Discussion in 'Dealer/Viper Tech Reviews' started by Supercharged Vipermad, Oct 16, 2000.

  1. Supercharged Vipermad

    Supercharged Vipermad Enthusiast

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    I posted this in another section (hope I didn't violate any rule), but here it is:
    Where would be the best place to mediate a dispute between Viper Tuners / suppliers and a customer? It seems petty, just promises not followed through on, 3rd party services not being paid (now they’re coming to me for payment after I paid the bill), no response to e-mails and voice messages.
    I think they are all similar complaints we’ve heard before, but a string of posts doesn’t seem like the answer. What is? Would arbitration from this board work? Maybe that’s not the answer either. Anyone have a good idea?
     
  2. Steve Ferguson

    Steve Ferguson Enthusiast

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    Jeff, I don't think an organization that works side by side with Dodge, and then accepts advertising revenue from tuners and suppliers, would be the best "third party arbitrator"? That could open up an even bigger bag of worms.

    The government provides the BBB, and I know that works if you can deal with the endless rules.

    I do not think we can banish the question you posed, but there needs to be a more credited program proposed before any action gets taken.

    Sorry to here your frustration.

    100% BONE STOCK 93 (no supplier frustration)
     
  3. Supercharged Vipermad

    Supercharged Vipermad Enthusiast

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    Steve, Thanks for your response and thoughts. [​IMG] I just didn't want to start a string of posts like I've seen before (elsewhere....remember?) without some guildlines, boundry conditions, etc. [​IMG]

    When I saw some of the rules in the "Tuner" section, I thought they may be directed at just this sort of review.[​IMG]

    I do think it's important for Viper owners to be aware of issues and responses from our suppliers.[​IMG]
     
  4. Steve Ferguson

    Steve Ferguson Enthusiast

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    Jeff, I now get what you are saying. Sorry for being so dense.

    This has long been discussed, but unfortunately, no solution has ever been found. If you have a method that could be fair to all the parties involved I am certain that it would be reviewed.

    I truly hope you have an answer, because this has stumped us for years.

    Thanks for caring!
     
  5. Jay Herbert

    Jay Herbert Enthusiast

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    If you do have a problem with a Texas supplier, sending all documentation to
    the TX AG and they can help (713) 223-5886. They offer a service that allows you to call them, give a companies
    name, and they'll send you a list of all complaints against that company. My guess is if they get enough complaints about a particular company, they look into things a little closer. Kind if neat, and would eventually force a company to clean up it's act.

    Boy it would be great to come up with something that in the end left all tuner customers happy with their purchases and treatment. There are so many quality suppliers out there now, smoke and mirrors may not work much longer for those using such things.
     
  6. Sean Roe

    Sean Roe Viper Owner

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    To think this is an issue that needs to be discussed just blows me away.
     
  7. Supercharged Vipermad

    Supercharged Vipermad Enthusiast

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    Sean, In what way? When the communication gets nasty and unreasonable, a 3rd party objective person might point out good points on both sides and lead to a good resolution, (for both parties).

    Steve, I'd like to submit a recommendation that the two parties submit details, data, records, etc. to a monitor (like one or more of our board monitors) and we handle it much like "Judge Judy" does. No one else can speak and the "Judge" controls the platform.
     
  8. Steve Ferguson

    Steve Ferguson Enthusiast

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    Jeff, that is exactly how the arbitration procedure I went through was handled. That's a great thought, but who qualifies to be the arbitrator? In cases like this both parties would have to agree to this decision, and judging from my experiences with some of the "questionable" suppliers, I highly doubt that they would agree to it.

    I don't mean to be the barer of bad news, I just do not know how this could ever truly work.
     
  9. Supercharged Vipermad

    Supercharged Vipermad Enthusiast

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    Steve, Thank you for continuing to discuss this tough topic with me. I know it's not popular nor an easy thing to deal with. I would suggest we try to nominate two or three arbitrators (from the likes of you, JonB, Joe, et al....mostly the moderators of the board or the really knowledgeable people here). If we voted on them (like a democracy), then even if in the end either party refused to act in accordance with the arbitrator (that drew that review), we would have a unbiased, 3rd party, objective review. That to me would be worth it's trouble and would solve problems, point out foolish customers, warn new owners of how a supplier may act, etc.
     
  10. Supercharged Vipermad

    Supercharged Vipermad Enthusiast

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    I have a different suggestion:

    How about a section where customers and suppliers can post experiences and responses, without a mediator or arbitrator? We could insist no commentaries from the bleachers (to keep down BS), all post must be verifiable, truthful, factual, etc. That way the supplier could respond and we could all see the interaction between customer and supplier in resolving issues. That is important because the customer is wrong as much as the suppliers are and this way we can see the dynamics and judge for ourselves.

    I would suggest categories such as suppliers with cross references to types of upgrades (headers, N2O, blowers, etc.), just to make it fast and easy to analyze pros and cons of our suppliers.
     
  11. Marv S

    Marv S VCA Member - UT/AZ

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    "I have a different suggestion:
    How about a section where customers and suppliers can post experiences and responses, without a mediator or arbitrator?"


    Jeff,

    Good points but isn't that what this Dealer/Viper Tech Reviews section is for?
     
  12. Supercharged Vipermad

    Supercharged Vipermad Enthusiast

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    Marv,
    "Good points but isn't that what this Dealer/Viper Tech Reviews section is for?"

    I thought it might be (see 1st few posts), but was just checking for rules and procedures. I didn't want to be asssociated with some of the bad stuff that has gone on in the past.

    I like Steve's suggestion to have a place where facts can be validated and only the involved parties would be allowed to post.

    That way, potential customers can see the interaction in full.

    I understand mediation isn't what this site is for and now I know why. (Kind of makes me feel "special" when it takes this long to get it through my skull)
     
  13. Steve Ferguson

    Steve Ferguson Enthusiast

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    For those looking for a format, check out the Miata.net site. They have a review section which has good and bad points. The fact that anyone could post with a BS e-mail address is a negative.

    Something like this could be implemented, but there would need be be a standard of factual information that would need to accompany any positive or negative posts.

    As far as the VCA providing a "mediation forum" I do not see that happening.

    The VCA promotes the enjoyment of Viper. When someone wants to personalize their Viper to meet their own needs that should be done without the VCA.

    No one has been stopped from posting factual statements about good and bad experiences. That will remain. But becoming the Kangaroo court? Thats a job for Whopner.

    I could see a section where owners leave a post that asks for private e-mails from people who have dealt with suppliers or tuners. This would keep it personal, like the job being requested.

    Please give some feedback on what you think of the site listed above. Thanks.
     
  14. Supercharged Vipermad

    Supercharged Vipermad Enthusiast

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    I've had some confusion about this supplier problem / dispute that I originally posted about. I don't want to talk about people or harm their names, just clear up a situation, so I didn't mention (and don't want to) the supplier name.

    I was not refering to TNT, (they are a very loyal, dedicated part of my racing effort, and good friends).

    I'm sorry some of you saw fit to accuse them in this case, but please don't. Go read the stuff they've done for me under the racing section....actually twice in the last month they have worked nights, weekends, whatever to get me back to the track for problems that weren't their fault.[​IMG]
     
  15. Maverick The Electrician

    Maverick The Electrician Enthusiast

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    I wish I could get my car running right.
     
  16. Marc Lublin

    Marc Lublin Enthusiast

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    Although it doesn't seem likely it would be so nice if some type of arbitration system could be figured out. Going through the courts is painfully slow and expensive. What is a person to do if they have had a problem with a tuner and have what they believe to be cold hard proof. Since most or all of the major tuners advertise and post here, it would be helpful if they could give some input. Like Jeff said, I don't think it's about smearing someone's name, it's more along the lines of getting just results for both sides and seeing that these problems don't happen with others.
     
  17. Tpup

    Tpup Enthusiast

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    I went through the BBB Arbitration when I "lemon lawed" my Suburban. It seemed fair. I spoke to the Arbitrator and she told me that she was a volunteer who worked some cases. I don't know that much about it but its worth checking out...
     

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