VEC1 installed [Dyno results]

[ElDiablo Viper]

I can tell you that VEC1 is the best mod for the buck.

My car dynoed at 430RWHP and 468RWTQ on a cold day with Corsa and K&N

Later I removed the cats and dynoed the car again at 100 deg weather and got 411RWHP and 454RWTQ. Car run very FAT.

Now with VEC installed and 90 deg day I dyned at 437.4RWHP and 480RWTQ. I can feel that the car is a lot quicker and it is more fun to drive it.

Now in a cold day I should easy be over 440RWHP

Thanks to ECS in NJ for the install and dyno testing.

 

[Snake Bitten]

NICE! How many miles are on your GTS?

 

[joe117]

12 ft/lb more torque is about 2.5%, right? That would be about the same as cutting 80lb from the weight of the car, right? You get a big boost out of that? It all helps but I can't believe it makes a big, seat of the pants, improvement.

 

[jcaspar1]

What settings are you using?

 

[ElDiablo Viper]

I have 5K miles and belive me that you can feel the difference. The numbers that we are talking about are at the wheel. If you can't feel 25RWTQ than something must be wrong with your pants

The best setting (looking at dyno and how lean/fat) is the low on 0 anf high on -6

 

[ElDiablo Viper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joe117:
12 ft/lb more torque is about 2.5%, right? That would be about the same as cutting 80lb from the weight of the car, right? You get a big boost out of that? It all helps but I can't believe it makes a big, seat of the pants, improvement.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also it is 25LBS on the same day so with your calculation is 160LBS off your car. That means driving with a passanger or not.

 

[joe117]

What I'm saying is that the increase in torque is minor. The correction values fed into the dyno could be causing the results to change. Why would there be a decrease when the cats were removed? What do you mean by, "Car run very FAT"? If the dyno is being run properly there shouldn't be a change from hot day to cold day readings. I still don't see an increase of 25 ft/lb from your figures. And again, even with your figure of 25 ft/lb increase, I don't think the increase will make the car feel "a lot quicker". You don't give any rpm values. Even an increase of 25 ft/lb at the peak, measured on a dyno, isn't going to mean that you can feel anything driving on the street.
Some guys change their plug wires on a good running engine and then say they can feel it. Some guys say they can feel the smooth tubes. I say bunk.
In a 1/4 mile, A car like a Viper will drop about 1/10 sec for a 100lb weight reduction or 10hp increase. A 100hp shot from nitrous will drop your et about 1 second. I don't think you can feel the kind of increase in torque that you say you are measuring.

 

[lleone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joe117:
Some guys change their plug wires on a good running engine and then say they can feel it. Some guys say they can feel the smooth tubes. I say bunk.
... I don't think you can feel the kind of increase in torque that you say you are measuring.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think what most people feel is the change in "how" the engine is running. Personally speaking, I would be really surprised if I could tell a 50hp difference in my Viper. My SOTP dyno just isn't that good. I can tell though, the differences in how the engine runs between the various factors and conditions that affect performance. At least in my Viper and to me, the power all feels about the same.

 

[1TONY1]

ElDiablo, Were all your #'s corrected numbers? If so then the temp etc. shouldn't matter....were all the runs on the same type dyno? It sound like you picked up alot because your car was fat and the vec1 got the mixture back. If you had done the vec1 before removing the cats you would not have seen near the gain. Kinda like saying you picked up 30hp by changing sparkplugs when one plug had no tip on it. I'm interested in everybody's experience with the vec1. I think Sean's site says 14hp/16tq is normal.

 

[ElDiablo Viper]

I took the cats out and never got the light so I thought that the sims were not needed. Then I put the car on the dyno and found out that I run 10.7 which means reach/fat. My numbers varied from 401RHHP-423 and 439RWTQ-464 As you do know that the weather has a lot to do with the dyno even if the numbers are corrected. Just dyno the car at 100 deg and then bring it on a cold day when the air quality is good and see your numbers jump.

My best run was with 12.0 air/fuel reading sims installed and VEC1 setup at LOW 0 HIGH -6.

I feel the difference in the way the car responds to to me steping on it. I'm willing to take a bet that I'll be over 440RWHP on a cold day. You also know that Vipers got hot very quickly and when they do your HP goes down.

Last thing. My first dyno with 430RWHP and 468RWTQ was done on a different dyno. Few guys told me that the dyno that I did most of my runs gave them 10-12 HP less. So maybe I did not have all that HP to begin with. My next thing is to go to the first dyno and see what I get.

 

[vinman]

I had mine done on a custom Enron Dyno (certified by Arthur Andersen). My Viper has 15,555 RWHP and RWT is 18,056 lb/ft.

really though.. I can pick up differences in my car by the presense of tire shake during a "roll on" acceleration from 10MPH. on hot humid days, 90 degrees+, there is very little of any. on cooler days, in the 70s, on the same patch of road, the car will shake the tires and fell like its on the edge of breaking them loose all the way through first and then bakes them up pretty good into second...

another hillarious measuring unit is the "office pass ejector" I keep a card to get into my parking lot in the webbing located between the visors... its basically the same size as a credit card maybe twice as thick... on a really good air day... that thing will launch itself out of the webbing during hard acceleration... what a fun car to drive!

 

[MtHam ACR]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As you do know that the weather has a lot to do with the dyno even if the numbers are corrected.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'Correcting' removes the variability of the weather from dyno testing, it base-lines the numbers to a common standard.

 

[ElDiablo Viper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MtHam ACR:
'Correcting' removes the variability of the weather from dyno testing, it base-lines the numbers to a common standard.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But does not prevent your car from runing hot on a hot day. Hot car=low HP

 

[fast?]

I think seans vec works great too.
previous #s without VEC:
434.6 rwhp 450.9 rwtq.
VEC set at -16:
436.8rwhp 464.5 rwtq.
VEC set at -20:
443.3rwhp 476.9 rwtq.
BTR nitrous propane:
578.4 rwhp
The VEC smoothed out my curve line throughout the whole run.

 

[slaughterj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MtHam ACR:
'Correcting' removes the variability of the weather from dyno testing, it base-lines the numbers to a common standard.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But what about density of air due to the cold, therefore more air into the car? Exactly what does the SAE correction factor take into account?

 

[MtHam ACR]

A good source about "corrected" dyno numbers found here:
http://rshelq.home.sprynet.com/calc_cf.htm

"The dyno correction factor takes into account all of the effects of temperature, altitude, atmospheric pressure and humidity to arrive at corrected horsepower and torque values."

"the standard reference conditions are: Air temp 77 deg F (25 deg C), 29.235 Inches- Hg (990 mb) altitude-corrected barometric pressure, 0 ft ( 0 m) altitude, 0% relative humidity."

 

[joe117]

I didn't say that you couldn't make a little more power with your mod. I said that the power increase you claim is too small to feel. It certainly is too small to make the car "much quicker". Again, 10hp will drop about 1/10 from your 1/4 mile ET. 20hp might drop your ET .2 seconds. That would be an improvement of about one and a half percent. Do you think you can feel that? The numbers you are talking about are probably down in the noise as far as the dyno measurements go. In other words, I don't think the dyno has enough repeatability to accurately measure the small increases you are looking for. If I wanted more power from my Viper I would get a small nitrous shot. You will get real power for little money. What you are messing with will never get you anything you can feel.

 

[Sean Roe]

The VEC1 does it's most good in the mid range, correcting a drop in the factory PCM's power curves. The peak #'s increase also, but not as much as the mid range.
It's quite easy to feel the improvement in throttle response, even when rolling onto the throttle on the highway in 5th or 6th gear.
Here's a dyno graph of our GTS with and without the VEC1 adjusted. Note the gain in the mid range. Adjustment settings noted at the bottom.

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This is just an FYI for those who haven't actually tried one, or been in a Viper with one, that would otherwise not understand the gains that could be made.

Sean