Viper Racing Questions

Mopar Boy

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So, what classes can Vipers race in? What are the car safety requirments that are needed? What are the driver requirments? What are ther costs that are involved?

To back up a step, I think I would like to get into racing a little more. Since I was a child it has always been my dream to race and now that I am closer to making that possible, I am looking into it a little deeper.

Any suggestions or advice?

Thanks!

Robert
 
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Mopar Boy

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I guess I should have added that.:rolleyes:

I am not sure I would want to run my car as the damage that will eventually happen is not worth it on such a clean car. But to get a car just for the track.....:D:D

Robert
 

Boxer12

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I disagree with the advice given. Set up your car for the track. You cannot 'race' without a rollcage and helmet. That is the main requirement that you need. You will want to use race pads & fluid, and probably 18" wheels and tire combos. There are a few other details, like an add-on tray in the oil pan, vents for the valve covers, etc. Don't think of your car as a collector, it isn't. Use it for what it was meant to be used for if you have that desire. You don't tear them up unless you can't drive smooth or you have shunts and incidents, which are rare but do happen. HPDE starts out with newbies, and you can run with PCA, NARRA, NASA. SCCA requires a rollcage. Have fun and don't hesitate to ask questions. You will get a lot of opinions, mainly from pppl who have never been on a track except for HPDE event or two. They are track posers. Just my 2c.
 

dave6666

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Explaining Viper things to you
And I disagree with the counter-advice. ;) Every time I'm out at the track posing I look at all of the cars that are being tracked frequently and the cosmetic abuse is staggering. And yes, I'm talking about no off track excursions, just the constant pelting of rubber sand and other track bits from your hot sticky tires and from the hot sticky tires in front of you. Let alone having to swap your poser between street mode and track mode all the time.

Also, It sounds like he's talking about competition not just track events. That will be even more brutal cosmetically on the car because someone is trying to get by you unless you're in last place.
 

Tere

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Before you start racing, learn to drive on the racetrack. Enter DE and HPDE track events where you drive with an instructor and eventually get cleared to do high performance driving solo. Then you can start doing timed events (driving against the clock). Then do some instructed race driving -- it's a whole lot different when you're surrounded by other cars. Then you have your race car built and track tuned. After all that and a few hundred thousand dollars later, you're ready to actually race. :):drive::)

Just doing HPDE is pretty brutal on the car -- tires, brakes, suspension, engine, and drivetrain all get a pretty severe workout. Let alone the cosmetic damage from flying debris. It takes me about a half a day to configure one of my cars from street to track setup (and another day getting it reconfigured, fluids changed, and cleaned up). It's fun, but kind of an expensive hobby.
 
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FrankBarba

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First...What is your price Range for a Car ? Do you want a competative car or mid pack car ? What series do you want to race in? Each series has a different set of rules...

What is your budget for Prep, spares ?
What is your budget for Transportation to & from the Track?
What is your budget for Lodging while at the Track?
What is your budget to keep your wife happy if your married?
Finally what is your budget if the car is damaged?
Most do not purchase Racing Insurance, I would suggest buying insurance. I know that if i wrecked my Racer it would be years before i could save the funds to have repaired. If you want to race talk to racers, not Track Days People. If you want to do Track Days talk those people, not Racers...
 

Steve 00RT/10

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First off: Robert.....I don't think you want to run that machine on a track. :2tu:

Best advice yet. "Racing" and "Time Trialing" (running a car around a track) are two different things.

I agree, but to go a step further.....you don't need to race wheel to wheel or do time trial stuff to have a thoroughly enjoyable day at a road race track once in a while. Very minimal cost.... Get your car checked over before driving your car to the track. Make sure you start with a good set of brake pads (bring extras) and swap the brake fluid to Motul or similar. Go to an event with instruction. You'll be in the novice class. That's all that's required to get a taste of the thing. If you only do it a time or two a year...that's all that's ever required.

You can go any direction you want from there.....and spend as much as you can afford.

Steve
 

gb66gth

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Advice; go to a good racing school! You may think you are a good driver, and you may be, but there is no substitute for a real, proper, well equiped racing school. Skip Barber, Bondurant, Bertil Roos, they are worth the time and money. They'll teach you to handle yourself behind the wheel properly, ontrack, in their cars. Simpley put, they will change the way you drive.
 

ViperGal

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See Viper Days and Viper Racing League and call Ben Keating - winner of Viper Racing League last year and site sponsor I believe through TomBallDodge.com who is also one heck of a great guy and can set you up right - heck he even has his own personal mechanic set up any mods you need if you get your snake from him. He may even have a track car or two available right now. PM me if you need his direct number.

:drive:
ViperGal
 
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Steve 00RT/10

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Advice; go to a good racing school! You may think you are a good driver, and you may be, but there is no substitute for a real, proper, well equiped racing school. Skip Barber, Bondurant, Bertil Roos, they are worth the time and money. They'll teach you to handle yourself behind the wheel properly, ontrack, in their cars. Simpley put, they will change the way you drive.

I absolutely agree....but you don't need to do this to get a taste of what it's like. If you like, by all means do a school and set your car up. Bang for the buck.....the Spring Mountain 3 day course in NV may still be one of the best. I did in the spring of 2002. Over 325 track miles in a ZO6 over the 3 days. One full day of car control exercises.

I did forget to mention insurance. I wouldn't get on any track without it. My regular insurance covers me for what I do (except autocross).....at least so far.

Steve
 

gb66gth

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Steve OORT/10, what does your insurance company cover? Track Days? Naw?! 'Cause I've never heard of an insurance policy that covers life after pit-out. I am very interested!
 
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Mopar Boy

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Thanks for all of the very good advice! :hail: Please keep it coming!

To answer the questions that are asked as an answer to my questions.:) To clarify, I am making plans for the next couple of years. I cannot go out and get a car with where I currently sit today.

First off, I would like to eventually race as opposed to just track days. My intent would be the VRL. All going well in the next few years I will be in a position to be able to take my dream that far, however sitting here today I have a few other commitments that I would have to see through before I can purchase another car. I would do another car as I would like to keep my current car in one piece without needing to worry about stone chips.;)

That being said, I think for now I should gain experience with Viper Days, TD's, and yes, I do plan on a driving school at somepoint as well as I know I do not have profesional skills. By the time I finish that I will have the experience and hopefully will also then have the resources to get the track car and do REAL racing.

Frank - You asked the most hard questions!:D

The car - My budget for a car today is zero, however I made the intent to get my first Viper and I got it, and now I will set my goal on a second. It will only be a matter of time for this one but depending on class and race series, that will depend on how soon I can afford the car. I imagine the faster the series, the more expensive the car. For starters, I would be content with mid pack but I know I will not be happy there in the long run.:rolleyes:

Transportation - I already have a tow rig with trailer so I would be all set there.

Budget - I do not know this one so much. This is part of the reason I am asking these questions so I can see if it would even be feasible. My guess for yearly budget would be $10,000-15,000ish. Is that workable?

Damage - If the car was damaged, I can do all of my own work, all I would need is parts. I would then go with your suggestion regarding insurance.

Series - I do not know most of the short form lettering that was posted (HPDE, PCA, NARRA, NASA, SCCA) nor do I know what is involved with each, so I am having a hard time answering that one. As mentioned, I am VERY green thumbed at this. :2tu:<--Green


I do non't want to confuse everyone here. I WILL go racing in the next few years, but as with all things I get into, I do my reasearch in advance so I now what I am getting into. Hence the reason this post is so general. I honestly do not know the answers to some of the posts, hence the reason I am looking for the advice from you experienced folk on what I need to do. I have little track experience but I know I want to learn.

Robert
 
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Steve 00RT/10

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Steve OORT/10, what does your insurance company cover? Track Days? Naw?! 'Cause I've never heard of an insurance policy that covers life after pit-out. I am very interested!

I guess you'll have to keep shoppin' around. I have been fully covered every year I've gone since 2002. Non - timed / instructional. I have the local agency check every year before I go knowing that it could change and has for many. I was on a track once a couple years ago where a guy incurred $26K in damage on his Viper. He was covered under a similar policy. I am not covered when I autocross. I don't consider that very risky. It is likely only a matter of time before the free ride ends. That will be the end of my track days. The car will be pushing 100K miles by then. Time to give it a break

Steve
 

KWilliams

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Mopar Boy,
NARRA is a VCA supported track day company that owns Viper Days. We specialize in instructing novices to racers with a curriculum specifically designed for Vipers. Many of our customers track their street cars track with little, if any, damage. Painters tape is used to protect leading edges and works well.

We encourage Viper owners to put the wax down and come out and enjoy their cars on the track. The Viper is one of the best track cars ever made. It's a shame that they don't all get used for that purpose.

We will be at Brainerd, MN May 15-17 and Mosport, July 10-12. Log on to NARRAonline.com and give us a call or email for more info. We travel with a track side support company that can take care of any mechanical needs from set up to brakes or any other mechanical need. You will learn more about you and your car than you can imagine and have a blast in the process.
 

gb66gth

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Good to now Steve, I'ld like to ask my insurance guy but I'm afraid the answer is going to be something like, "what thet hell are you thinking?!"
 

RTTTTed

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Easiest way to race.....Arrive & Drive a Miata....


I agree with Frank's idea, but would it have to be a Mazda? How about an old Shelby Charger turbo? Get an 87 GLH. Save $15,000 on the car and that leaves you money to buy extra Bodies for spare parts?

With some work aren't the old FWD TDs as good as a Mazda?

The Daytonas weighted 2600-3200, but the Charger bodies were 2200#.

I bought an extra Shelby Charger and once I get it up around 220hp I figured I go track it.

I've carefully HPTD'd with my Viper, but I've watched a bunch of rubbin, and some pushin'. Also watched a slicked Mazda slide into a tire wall and leave some parts behind. Come around a couple corners and find dirt all over the corner I'm entering at high speed. Thank god the EVO was backwards BESIDE the track and not inf front of me.

With a Gen 2 hood being a $30,000 part here in Canada, Viper fixing is for sponsor guys. Carbon fiber parts are even more expensive.

Ted

Ted
 

gb66gth

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I'm currently racing Spec Miata in SCCA & NASA. It's great bang for the buck. Plus, if you do have a "moment" they're pretty tough litle cars and parts are both cheap and plentiful
 

Steve 00RT/10

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I'm currently racing Spec Miata in SCCA & NASA. It's great bang for the buck. Plus, if you do have a "moment" they're pretty tough litle cars and parts are both cheap and plentiful

I have a friend with a race prepared Miata. Blackhawk Farms road track is his regular track venue. He is a good driver and will routinely wax Vipers ( and most others) on an xcross course, even with his street Miata....me included. PAX number with a blower seals the deal. I was never able to beat him stock when the POX....errrr PAX was applied. Miatas are an excellent little car for such things. No doubt driver skills are a big part of it. The blower actually slowed my times down a little....hard to handle the TQ. No biggy...it's all fun at the end of the day.

Steve
 

Boxer12

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Your budget is going to decide this question for you: To race a CC, I think its more like $10k per weekend, unless you are your own tech. CC owners can tell you more specifically. I think the rebuild is at around 50 hrs on a CC motor, and that's not included in the previous figure.

To run your street car at track days, about $1500 per weekend depending on tire allowance.

To repaint a front clip: $250? In three years, I have accumulated about 3 stone chips on my hood and haven't had to repaint the front clip yet. Driving on the county roads in Texas, or anywhere that they resurface the roads with tar and stones, will do as much or more damage than at the track (assuming you stay ON the track).

No offense to Dodge, but Corvette is the way to go if you don't want to spend CC money and don't want to drive a Miata. You can buy a built motor for a few grand and ALL parts are cheaper, including CF body panels, brakes, etc. You will end up with a car that is fast, but not 'different.'
 
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CCBrian

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In regards to a CC...$10k minimum a weekend if you are paying the big boys to work on it. On a Double National weekend, I figure $5K not including entry, motorhome fuel etc. Tires run $3500 plus I figure $500 for wear/tear per hour of run time. And that assumes no incident damage. We do all of the work on the car-one of my friends is a shop foreman/certified Viper tech. I have @35 hours on my motor and it is pulling stronger than ever. Another friend here on west coast has almost 200 hours on his motor...and he won 1st this year in SCCA club racing in BP and 3rd in GT1! He has gone through 2 transmissions so far. But club racing is several notches below World Challenge...those cars take a beating...literally. Start with something slower...and take a driving school...even if doing open track. Something like a Viper or Corvette driven near the limit is way differnt than going out some back road or a stoplight race. And actual wheel to wheel is another level all again. I remember my first time out in my 2001 ARC on the track and got my A*** handed to me by a preped Neon-and my ego thought I was a great driver...at that point I headed to a race school and never looked back. And if you want to drive fast,its practice practice practice....and a *** of money. You better have the support of a significant other- I am lucky my whole family supports my addiction. But seriously, something like a Spec Miata would be a great place to start-and they are safe and cheap...a rarity in racing/tracking.If I were to start over that is where I would go. Also, you should just go out to an open track or go volunteer at one of the racing orginizations out there like SCCA, NASA etc. just to meet the people there. The amount you can learn from these drivers and workers is priceless...and you may make some great friends in the process too. And one more bit of advice...buy things in this order. 1) Safety equipment including good brakes/tires 2) Drivng school 3)A faster car/motor should be last on your list.
Good luck!
Brian Barnes
2008 SCCA NORPAC National BP Champion
 
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Mopar Boy

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Thanks for more info! That is great!:yay:

Brian - Thanks for the detailed look into the cc life!

Now, that miata thing. Does it HAVE to be a miata??:rolleyes: I am a Dodge boy. I has to be a Dodge of some form!:lmao:

Robert
 

CCBrian

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There are some prepared 1990's Neon ACR's that come up once in a while and are cheap and fast...read my post again and you will understand. Last one I saw went for something like $5000 with fully preped w/cage etc!
Brian
 

Leslie

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You've gotten a LOT of great advice! I would most definitely do a full 2-3 day driving school like Spring Mtn and bend everyone's ear and check out what you really want to do for the first 2 yrs while you get some seat time.

I don't race, I've been doing HPDE's for about 5 yrs now. My budget runs around $1K for a wknd, costs including brake pads/fluid/rotors/gas/hotel/beer/tire wear, etc etc. I run my Z06, it has 90K miles on it and most of them at a track haha. It's a relatively inexpensive car to maintain and I have just enough rwhp to have some fun (about 420rwhp).

I am in adv group now and instruct with PCA. I love it, I have a blast and don't worry about how my paint is wasted on the car hahaa! I see a lot of guys run the miata's and can do it without breaking the bank too much.
 

FrankBarba

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Mopar Boy....Neon...I've got a great Right Hand Drive Neon built for the SpeedVision World Challange Series. 200HP, Motec all the fine Chrome Molly Suspension ect..ect..ect...10K Includes spare motor, wheels, tires, ect..ect...
 

TexasPettey

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Another vote for racing with the Miata, especially if budget is a concern. I'd say that if you have to ask about how much something costs when racing a Viper, it's time to look into a Miata. Everything is expensive on a Viper, disposables alone for a weekend of actual racing will be in the $1000 range.

I know that there's no possible way I could afford to actually race my Viper. The first time I blew a motor, had a major body incident, etc., my budget would be blown.

Look into the NASA events and qualification groupings. That's a great way to get started in the racing area.
 
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