What do you think of this guy's post?

[klamathpro]

This guy is selling an 01' with 612rwhp on stock pistons and rods. He is a street legal race car builder who builds both Stealths and Vipers. I made the following comment on 3si.org:

Originally Posted by klamathpro

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Are the pistons upgraded to forged on that 01'? If not, you sure maxed out that creampuff.


He replied:

"Nope, power does not brake pistons, detonation does.

I ran 9.7@151mph on stock 3000gt cast pistons. and that’s with only 3.0L supporting ~800 wheel HP.

I know of plenty of 2000-up Vipers with heads/cam AND NOS making allot more HP then this car on the stock "creampuff" pistons. And NOS is ALOT harder on motors then N/A power is. I Sprayed my 2000 ACR with a 225 shot day in and day out, most likely close to 100 BOTTLES of NOS, I sold that car with 20K miles on it and the person that owns it now last time I talked to him he had 60K miles on the stock motor and still going."

I can't post a link because you have to be a member of 3si.org to view it.
Now from what I understand, HP and torque do have a big role in destructing cast pistons on the creampuffs, not just detonation alone, am I right? I would think 612rwhp would be about 650hp at the crank which should be at the limit of creampuffs.

He is a respected racer in the 3/S community but can he even get 612rwhp with the bolt on mods he has?

He has the following mods:
2001 GTS 14K miles
$55K
612 rwhp, 619rwtq all the time, fill it up with 91 pump gas and go.
Over $25,000 invested in mods
19" CCS 505A wheels 19X10 FT, 19X13 back
275/30R19 FT, and 355/25R19 RR Perelli P Zero's
3.55 rear Gears
Ported Striker aftermarket head castings Shaved to get 11.1 to 1 Comp
Jesel 1.7 rockers
Striker street cam
Smoth tubes
RC ported Throttle Bodies
Balenger Headers
Corsa Exhaust
Archer UD pullies
RPS Alum Flywheel
Magnacore wires
Ron Davis Readator
Roe Rad hoses
Up-graded water pump
DC Tune
Short throw shifter
Lowering springs

 

[plumcrazy]

that HP is no problem for it....it is all in the tune though.

and 25 shot could bust it up if it wasnt tuned and running properly

but why do the strikers and all the engine work and NOT do the pistons...hmmm

 

[klamathpro]

that HP is no problem for it....it is all in the tune though.

and 25 shot could bust it up if it wasnt tuned and running properly

but why do the strikers and all the engine work and NOT do the pistons...hmmm

I'm not disputing whether a creampuff can handle 612rwhp, I'm asking if he's correct in saying that detonation is the only thing that destroys creampuffs, and whether his mod list can even achieve these N/A numbers? Because if he's right, then a creampuff should be able to go past 800rwhp without a problem.

My understanding was that creampuffs have serious risks past 600rwhp, not really that they can't handle it.

 

[SYNFULL]

what's he using for engine management?

 

[Joseph Dell]

I'm not disputing whether a creampuff can handle 612rwhp, I'm asking if he's correct in saying that detonation is the only thing that destroys creampuffs, and whether his mod list can even achieve these N/A numbers? Because if he's right, then a creampuff should be able to go past 800rwhp without a problem.

My understanding was that creampuffs have serious risks past 600rwhp, not really that they can't handle it.

It is all in the tune. While the increased cylinder pressure is significant, detonation under boost causes cylinder pressures to be 100x what they are under non-detonation. which is the time that the ring-lands decide to go bye-bye on a cast piston car with short ring lands.

So no, the raw pressure won't hurt it. In fact, you can go up to 700-800rwhp on a viper with stock pistons with a good tune. your margin for error just drops a touch, that's all.

Detonate a forged-piston car and you'll still drive home. detonate a cast-piston car and you'll hear a pretty bad rattle and hopefully you won't hurt the engine block.

JD

 

[viperdude118]

Just as I suspected, it looks as though its one of Matt Monett's cars. He is very well respected on the 3si platform and very knowledgeable as a tuner. To answer your question about detonation alone causing piston failure, well I am not exactly sure what the right answer is. But I would trust this guy, I believe he has one of if not the most powerful Stealths out there.

 

[plumcrazy]

what JD said

 

[chimazo]

That's an n/a car, so the cylinder pressure increase isn't like it would be on an FI car, even with the bump in the CR. 90% of that motor's power is coming from the increased flow of the shaved Striker heads. There's no reason to think that it won't be as reliable as any other Viper if it's tuned properly.
I've read of 700hp+ FI Vipers with the cast pistons. The problem with FI and cast pistons, as JD mentioned, it that all it takes is some bad gas, a malfunctioning/empty alky system, a stuck wastegate, etc., and the pistons are toast, typically with a broken ringland or even a hole in the top from a hotspot. That's one of the benefits of an n/a setup - less worries.

FWIW, there are many FI 550-650rwhp Corvettes and tons of 350-400hp SRT-4's, Subies, Evo's (all turbos) running around with cast pistons.

 

[Camfab]

612rwhp = 700+ crank hp. His mods are right on for 600+ rwhp.

 

[Catwood]

what JD said

I'd agree also except I've seen forged pistons break also within a 1/4 mile race. Problem is you can't really hear detonation in a racecar. I did drive it home but an inch of piston land was gone. FWIW, this was a non viper application but I think the priciples are the same. Detonation under load is a piston killer, forged or not. With stock pistons I broke 7 of 8 lands, but the car did still run, just wasn't as fast.

 

[BigCarrot]

He's right... sorta. There is a limitfor cast pistons, but 600rwhp isn't it. I made over 700 at the wheels on my '03 and it was fine. I'd say it's mostly in the tune.