Which Cylinder heads are the best?

2002_red_gts

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I have been searching this site for some time to find the info I was looking for but cant find it. Im looking at putting together a head and cam package for my 2002 GTS. What are the best heads out there. Im leaning towards Greg Good, I emailed him just waiting on a response. So far I have found these

Greg Good

Rolling Thunderz

BTR

Striker

Gen 3 heads (not really feeling them with the custom work thats has to be done for the P/S)

Im in the military so price is a concern so I can sacrifice some CFM's if the price is a bit lower. So basically which head is the best bang for your buck?
 

plumcrazy

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out of the box, strikers are. hands down, nuff said. but they are not being made (same as BTR which i believe is long gone). You can get some sick power/numbers out of a good set of greg good heads. he flat out knows his stuff. go with greg.

who is rolling thunderz ?
 

MTGTS

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Greg's are awesome but you better have 6 months to wait for heads as I understand he is very busy
 

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Well, first of all, you need to break your question down;

You have mixed Head Porting options with Head Casting options, they are not mutually exclusive.

For Head Casting Options:

1. Gen-2
2. Gen-3
3. Gen-4
4. Striker

For Head Porting Options:

1. BTR
2. Greg Good
3. Rolling Thunders
4.Etc...


As far as what is best;

Castings: If a whole upper-end package is acceptable, a Gen-4 conversion is the best IMHO. If you are looking at Bolt-On Only and want to retain the Gen-2 Manifold, then Strikers would be best, followed by Gen-3, Followed by Gen-2. Note than Gen-3's do require a Power Steering Pump mounting system to be added, as would the Gen-4's.

Porting: Hands down, Greg Good. While I cannot comment on BTR, Rolling Thunderz has a LOT of problems that I know of. I am only a couple hours from them, and have seen first hand the failures and ongoing problems on just about every Viper they touch.

With that said, you can mix and match the above options. You can use Gen-3 Heads and GG to port them for example.
 

treesnake

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I run Strikers on my Gen 2. They flow so well that a Roe blower actually inhibits these heads. Jeff Mory told me the
only way to make these heads work to their full potential is with TT induction...
The direction that I am going with my car now, I wish I would have gone to JM's ultimate set of heads, the Striker R.
For starters, the Strikers and Striker Rs are built with a completely different casting than the OEM head.

When I ordered mine, Jeff Mory built the heads based on my intentions with the engine. He asked questions about
wether I was going FI. If I drove primarily street, road race, drag race etc.. He then fitted the heads with the
appropriate springs and custom pushrods. They come with Jesel RRs.. JM also has custom ground cams to complement the heads.

When you consider you get custom springs, pushrods and Jessel RRs, not to mention all the engineering that went
into them, the pricing is accurate....IMO

I wonder if it is a coincidence that the 08 heads flow similar numbers as the Strikers. The reason I say this is because I know someone that personally saw a set of 08 heads on JMs work bench....
Over a year before the first 08 hit the street....:D

Here's some detailed info, performance data and where to get them.....
Video link and additional info at the end....



VIPER CYLINDER HEAD OPTIONS and
GENERAL VIPER ENGINE INFORMATION:
GENERATION I TO GEN III

GEN-I
The model years for this car are 1992-1996. The production valve sizes are 1.920 Intake & 1.580 Exhaust. Most Viper owners are under the impression that the Gen I can not make as much horsepower as the later year cars; but this isn’t true. Gen 1 factory hp is 425 and the engine displaces 488 c.i. Most rear wheel dyno numbers come in at 385 to 395 hp. It is possible to make 500 to 530 rear wheel horsepower with a properly modified cylinder head, cam & rocker arm package and a set of high flow headers.

GEN-II The model years for this car are 1996-2002. The production valve sizes are the same as Gen 1 cars 1.920 Int. & 1.580 Ex. This is the most popular model car. Gen 2 factory hp is 450 and has the same 488 c.i. displacement as the Gen I cars. Rear wheel numbers in stock form come in around 410 to 420 hp. With a cylinder head, cam & rocker arm package you can make 530 to 580 at the wheels. Tuning, headers & other bolt-on’s contribute to the 50 horsepower spread.

GEN-III
Gen-3 model cars are from 2003 to 2006. The cylinder head is basically a factory- ported Gen 2 head. Production valve sizes are 2.000 Int. & 1.580 Ex. The engine size and horsepower increased to 505 c.i. & 500 hp. Rear wheel hp is 435 to 445. With Strikers @10.5:1, a matching cam, tune and full exhaust mods, you can expect 600 horsepower to the wheels through a manual transmission. The Gen III engine was also used in the Ram SRT-10 trucks through the 2006 model year. It is, with the exception of the oil pan, exhaust manifolds and a couple of minor changes, the same engine that powers the cars. The automatics on the Ram SRT-10 Quad Cab trucks (introduced in 2005) are typically 30 horsepower lower than the manual transmissions because of power losses through the automatic transmission.
Note: when using any aftermarket rocker system you must use a valve cover spacer kit.

STRIKER HEADS:
The J.M. Striker Head is the first and only head of its kind. J.M. used over 15 years of racing head experience to develop the Striker Head. J.M. realized the Viper is a superior car that needed a superior cylinder head. The Striker head will meet and exceed an impressive amount of abuse that any Viper owner can place on it. From street, to road race, to radical drag racing there is a Striker head option for you. The JM Striker Head for the Dodge Viper accommodates both Gen-2 and Gen-3 engines.
Features include intake valve sizes from 2.040 to 2.150. Exhaust size from 1.580 to 1.625. All existing intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds & aftermarket headers will fit this head. The guide centers have been moved to un-shroud the valves while improving the “line of sight” from the intake manifold to the valve and bore center. This provides a much straighter shot through the intake port. All of these changes while maintaining maximum port velocity, offer a major air flow improvement over any other current ported production head available today (including the GTS-R head).
The new chamber design and spark plug placement have a faster burn rate that allows the customer to run higher compression while still running pump gas. The water jackets are improved and allow more efficient cooling of the cylinder head. Deck thickness has been increased for higher horsepower and blower applications. Material has been added around the rocker arm pads to stabilize the valve train at higher rpm limits where higher lift cams require more spring pressure. Overall the Striker head has more material resulting in increased rigidity for the most demanding applications. The only accommodation required is a different offset for the rocker arms.
J.M. exclusive Striker heads feature;
 Specific 5 axis CNC programs
 Machined to exact tolerances, port to port consistency
 Combustion chamber range from 58cc to 82cc maximum
 Cast from ****** alloy A356 with a T-6 heat treat
 Increased deck thickness
 Ductile iron seats
 Manganese bronze valve guides
 Revised valve locations maximize port air flow and efficiency.
 Larger water jacketing improves cooling
 Hardened head bolt inserts.
 Utilizes existing intake and exhaust manifolds
 Striker Street version with 2.040 intake & 1.600 exhaust valves
 Striker-R (Race) Version with 2.100 intake & 1.600 exhaust valves (Call for more information)
 Requires the use of a shaft style rocker system
 3/8 chromoly pushrods included in package
 Heads come fully assembled (Please specify application) Options available; Bronze alloy seats, Inconel exhaust valves, Drag race & blower springs, Intake manifold port match.
STRIKER- Flow Charts on a Superflow SF-600 @ 28”W.C.
Gen II Heads vs. Striker Street Heads
Gen III Heads vs. Striker Street Heads
TEST #1 // Baseline Test Testing Detail, Engine Dyno

A baseline was established by testing the engine in a “base‟ form. The engine is a 1998 Dodge Viper GTS V-10. The engine is 502 cubic inches in displacement. It has a 4.030 bore and a 3.960 stroke (same displacement as a Gen 3 engine). This engine was in excellent running condition with “break-in” mileage only.

Engine Summary-
- Gen 2 Block - 4.030 Bore Dry Sleeve - 3.960 Factory Crankshaft - Stock Rods - Forged Pistons - 9.8: 1 Compression Ratio - Wet Sump Oil System (Stock) .Stock Cylinder Heads - T&D 1.7 Roller Rockers - Mopar 708 Camshaft @ 114 Intake Centerline - Stock Timing Set - Stock Intake Manifold (No Port Match) - Stock Throttle Bodies - Stock Injectors (54 PSI Fuel Pressure) - Hydraulic Lifters - Champion 12YLC Spark Plugs - Edelbrock Headers - Chevron 91 octane pump gas - Factory “crate” PCM
BASELINE STATS-
TORQUE NUMBERS ON THE BASELINE ENGINE ARE 629.83 LBS. FT. @ 4200 R.P.M.
HORSEPOWER ON THE BASELINE ENGINE CAME IN AT 560.37 H.P. @ 5000 R.P.M. DUE TO THE EXISTING PERFORMANCE CAM, ROLLER ROCKERS AND HEADERS INSTALLED PRIOR TO TESTING.
TEST # 1 // JM Cylinder Heads STRIKER Head Testing Detail The first test was conducted using the baseline engine with the following modifications: - JM STRIKER Cylinder head - CNC Ported Street Package - 2.040 Intake Valve - 1.600 Exhaust Valve - Crower 1.7 Ratio Shaft Mounted Roller Rocker Assembly - 74cc Chambers ( 9.8 : 1 compression ratio maintained) - Champion REC10YC4 Spark Plugs
As you can see, with just the installation of the Striker cylinder heads, the torque increased from 629.83 @ 4200 to 683.29 @ 4300. Horsepower numbers rose from 560.37 @ 5000 to 632.99 at 5300.
So far, a gain of 72.62 horsepower and 53.46 lbs. ft. of torque.
Keep reading and look what happened when the cam was installed !
THE TOTAL POWER GAIN WITH THE BASELINE ENGINE THAT ALREADY HAD HEADERS, ROLLER ROCKERS AND A MOPAR PERFORMANCE CAMSHAFT WAS AS FOLLOWS:
TORQUE: A GAIN OF 71 LBS. FT.
HORSEPOWER: A GAIN OF 119.24 HORSEPOWER
**These power numbers were obtained WITHOUT a modest increase in compression (easily obtained with a light head cut before shipping)

TEST #2 //JM Custom Roller Camshaft
Testing Detail The final test was conducted by adding a JM Cylinder Head‟s Proprietary Camshaft (Hydraulic Roller)
This test shows the torque numbers rising to 700.83 lbs. ft. @ 4400 r.p.m. and horsepower climbing to 679.61 horsepower at 5500.
The camshaft alone represents a gain of 46.62 horsepower and 17.54 lbs. ft. of torque !
C.N.C. PORTED O.E.M. HEADS (Available for Gen I to Gen III Viper Engines)
These heads contain the following upgrades:
· Competition „CNC‟ valve job on intake and exhaust valve seats · Heads receive complete „CNC‟ porting for maximum airflow and port velocity · New bronze guides in intake & exhaust, honed for desired clearance · Replace production intake & exhaust seats with oversize ductile iron seats · Combustion chamber reshaped for improved flow and combustion efficiency · Milled deck surface 0.030” to obtain a 75cc chamber volume (9.6:1 to 9.85:1) · Milled intake face 0.030” · J.M. stainless 2.04 intake valves · J.M. Stainless 1.60 exhaust valves · J.M. Spring and Titanium Retainer package · J.M. Valve Spring Locators · New Viper keepers · New Viper seals J.M.
**Note: when using any aftermarket rocker system you must use a valve cover spacer kit for the Gen III engine. We sell spacers & rockers for all years.**
Testing Detail- CNC PORTED O.E.M. VIPER HEADS This test was conducted using the baseline engine with the following modifications: - JM Cylinder Heads Stage 3 CNC Ported FACTORY Viper Heads - 2.040 Intake Valves - 1.600 Exhaust Valves - Crower Valve Spring / Retainer Package
THE CHART ABOVE SHOWS TORQUE ON THE BASELINE ENGINE ROSE TO 661 LBS. FT. @ 4400 R.P.M. AND HORSEPOWER TO 609.63 H.P. AT 5400 R.P.M. THIS REPRESENTS A GAIN OF 31 LBS. FT. OF TORQUE AND 49.26 HORSEPOWER. THESE GAINS WERE REALIZED WITHOUT ADDING A MATCHING JM CUSTOM ROLLER CAMSHAFT !
GEN I O.E.M. VIPER HEADS VS. STAGE 3 PORTED O.E.M. HEADS
GEN II O.E.M. VIPER HEADS VS. STAGE 3 PORTED O.E.M. HEADS
GEN III O.E.M. VIPER HEADS VS. STAGE 3 PORTED O.E.M. HEADS
STRIKER HEADS AND STRIKER BILLET VALVE COVER SPACERS INSTALLED ON A 2005 RAM SRT-10.
THE ENGINE RETAINS A VERY STOCK APPEARANCE IN SPITE OF A WHOPPING 145 BOOST IN HORSEPOWER WITH OUR HEAD AND CAM PACKAGE.
STRIKER INTAKE PORT: YOU CAN SEE THERE IS A MUCH STRAIGHTER SHOT TOWARD THE INTAKE VALVE THAN THE O.E.M. HEADS PROVIDE, DUE TO THE REVISED GUIDE LOCATION.
STRIKER HEAD AND VALVE COVER SPACER WITH THE O.E.M. VALVE COVERS (GEN III), DURING THE PROJECT ASSEMBLY.
A PEEK UNDER THE COVERS AT THE PREMIUM GRADE COMPONENTS USED WITH THE STRIKER HEADS. THIS IS A SHOT OF THE CUSTOM, SHAFT-MOUNTED ROLLER ROCKER SYSTEM USED AS WELL AS THE UNIQUE, BILLET (STRIKER) VALVE COVER SPACERS. THESE SPACERS ALLOW FOR THE ATTACHMENT OF THE O.E.M. VALVE COVERS, HOSES, PLUG WIRE LOOMS, ETC.
THE INNOVATIVE FASTENING SYSTEM AND SATIN FINISH PROVIDES A CLEAN, LEAK-FREE SEAL.
ANOTHER PEEK UNDER THE VALVE COVERS OF THE CUSTOM ROLLER ROCKER SYSTEM AND VALVE COVER SPACERS OF THE STRIKER HEADS.
STRIKER HEADS
Although every engine is a bit different, here are some REALISTIC POWER GAINS obtainable with our Viper Head and Custom Cam Packages…
® 85+ H.P. WITH THE HEADS PROVIDING A SUPPORTING FREE-FLOW EXHAUST SYSTEM (ESPECIALLY ON THE VIPER CAR) IS USED TO COMPLIMENT THE STRIKER’S SUPERIOR FLOW.
® 30 ADDITIONAL HORSEPOWER IS AVAILABLE THROUGH A MODEST INCREASE IN COMPRESSION WITH THE HEADS. FACTORY C.R. IS 9.6:1 RECOMMENDED COMPRESSION RATIO- 10.5:1 (Available by head milling). The fast-burn combustion chamber of the Striker head allows for a nice boost in compression on pump gas without the use of fuel octane boost additives.
® 35 ADDITIONAL HORSEPOWER WITH ONE OF OUR PROPRIETARY CUSTOM ROLLER CAMS.
Total Horsepower Gain with Striker Heads, Camshaft and tuning- 145 horsepower
Note- A large increase in torque will also be realized.
CNC PORTED STAGE 3 O.E.M. HEADS for Gen I to Gen III Viper Engines
For those wanting improved power without going straight to the Striker Head and Cam Package, we also offer CNC ported versions of the stock Viper Heads. These heads with an appropriate matching camshaft can provide an additional 95 horsepower to the wheels with proper tuning and a supporting free-flowing exhaust system.
EXHAUST SYSTEM NOTES:
Due to the additional room in the engine bay, the RAM SRT-10 trucks have a more free-flowing exhaust manifold than the Viper cars. Although headers are recommended for any application, the requirement for headers on the trucks is not as important. We have had great success with the trucks through the o.e.m. exhaust manifolds even with the Street Striker head and cam packages.
A bit of history…
“Years of airflow research and racing experience is being put into the design of these head and cam packages”.
“EVERY ONE of these cylinder heads, from the original stock Viper castings, through the Ported o.e.m. Stage 3 castings to the Striker heads were designed by the same individual-Mr. Jeff Morys; and there is no one more qualified in this area than the original designer. To add to his credentials, Mr. Morys also does consulting work for N.A.S.C.A.R. and Roush Racing.”
“Jeff saw limitations in the production Viper head and designed the Strikers. These heads are a completely new casting, designed from the ground up yet are fully compatible with the o.e.m. Viper engine in terms of manifolds and other bolt-on parts”.
“We offer a variety of solutions for a Viper owner looking to get more power out of their Viper engines, ranging from CNC machine port jobs to the full- on custom Striker heads for the Gen II and III motors. These packages are for those looking to obtain a large power increase without going to the street-style forced induction systems. In fact the power gains provided by the Striker and cam package are comparable or surpass the forced induction system’s performance in a mechanically simple way.”
“The Striker R head is also available for those wanting the ultimate power in a true race head for a big displacement, big turbo Viper drag vehicles”.
“We are very proud to offer the Striker cylinder head. There is NOTHING like it on the market today”.
We also offer ported head and cam packages for the SRT-4, SRT-8 and 5.7L Hemi engines (designed by Mr. Morys) as well as modified heads for the General Motors LS1 engines! Please call or e-mail for more information.
IMPORTANT NOTE:
In an attempt to compare one head to another, flow benches are often used. The c.f.m. value (cubic feet per minute) normally at the Industry Standard of 28” of W.C. is a guide when making comparisons between heads or when porting a head to see how the port reacts to changes to it’s shape.
WHAT CAN’T BE DETERMINED SOLELY BY THESE FLOW BENCH NUMBERS IS HOW MUCH POWER THIS MODIFIED HEAD WILL ACTUALLY PRODUCE ONCE IT IS BOLTED TO A WORKING ENGINE.
The common misconception is the higher the flow number, the better. Or even worse, the higher the flow number the more power the engine is going to make.
For example, the Striker’s Intake port flows 330 c.f.m. on a flow bench. The o.e.m. head flows 270 c.f.m. through the Intake port. So, does that mean if an O.E.M. head can be made to also flow 330 c.f.m. it will produce the same power on an engine as the Striker head? The answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT.
That is not to say that improvements can’t be made through porting the (o.e.m.) factory heads. In fact we sell exactly those and they can provide a rather large power gain on Viper, Hemis and the Neon (SRT-4) engines. Just be aware there is a practical modification limit to any head design.
There is quantity of flow and there is also quality of flow. If you are reading this, you are probably after more engine power and not a high cylinder head c.f.m. number. In fact porting for even more flow past a certain point can actually create a power LOSS!
Properly ported heads along with a camshaft to take advantage of them can provide amazing power gains. Gains that will rival the power and performance (often exceeding) those engines with street-style forced induction systems.
There are no additional hoses, belts, brackets, intercoolers, clamps, methanol injection pumps, larger injectors, fuel pump/system mods or tuning issues. Just ALL MOTOR POWER…ALL OF THE TIME !!
 

NI-KA

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Give Todd Claucherty at Arrow Racing Engines a call. Arrow has some options for GEN II owners. The top end of your motor will end up looking lke a GEN IV but you will be putting down equivalent HP and Torque as a GEN IV.
 

Viper Specialty

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Ok will do is it pretty much just a gen IV swap on a a gen II short block?

Search for a conversion thread by Nader in the SRT section- it is a similar example to what he is talking about above, albeit a more advanced package design than Mopar/Arrow. It is probably on the first couple pages.
 
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Treesnake, that was quite a mouthful. :D

It was interesting until I got to the end and saw Ronnie's contact info.

One of my Viper truck customers that has a Procharger build made 950 rwhp with my ported stock castings, which is the highest powered one in its class for now. He posted his results on the truck site and Ronnie came in raining on the guys parade because the truck didn't have Strikers. He's a poor sport, and I don't care what he says. YMMV.
 

bushido

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I got JM ported stage 3 stock heads, and what Dan Cragin told me. Is that they flow really well,almost as good as the Strikers,but without the Striker price..
 

treesnake

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Treesnake, that was quite a mouthful. :D

It was interesting until I got to the end and saw Ronnie's contact info.

One of my Viper truck customers that has a Procharger build made 950 rwhp with my ported stock castings, which is the highest powered one in its class for now. He posted his results on the truck site and Ronnie came in raining on the guys parade because the truck didn't have Strikers. He's a poor sport, and I don't care what he says. YMMV.

Sorry Greg. I dont know a lot of the behind the scene actions or personalities...

My post was not intended to take anything away from your stellar work. Your good work and great results are well
known in the Viper community.
I use several parts that you have modified and couldn't be happier....:2tu:
 
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Sorry Greg. I dont know a lot of the behind the scene actions or personalities...

My post was not intended to take anything away from your stellar work. Your good work and great results are well
known in the Viper community.
I use several parts that you have modified and couldn't be happier....:2tu:

I didn't take it that way. Ronnie is not very clinical when discussing heads, it's psuedo scientific jargon supporting whatever it is he happens to be selling. In other words if he isn't selling it it's junk.

There are several ways to go on heads obviously. We've seen great power from OEM heads as well as aftermarket. Ultimately, a Viper owner needs to do his own research and go with makes him happy. It's nice to have choices.

Have you ported your intake? There's a lot of room for improvement on that manifold.
 

Jack B

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A little clarification, BTR used Rolling Thunderz early on. There were some problems and Tom (BTR) stopped using them. I also had a major problem with Rolling Thunderz.
 

Tim

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On my 2002 RT10 I’m running Stryker Heads, cam with Belanger Headers and Corsa Exhaust putting down 550+ RWHP. They work, there is no question about that.

What happened to Jeff and his heads?

Tim
 

Viper Specialty

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A little clarification, BTR used Rolling Thunderz early on. There were some problems and Tom (BTR) stopped using them. I also had a major problem with Rolling Thunderz.

Hey Jack,

What was your problem?

I have seen:

-Rockers installed bashing the baffles until they broke into pieces and fell into the engine
-Cam profiles/Port Jobs that are just plain untunable
-Multiple head chambers/ports with porting that later punched through to the water jacket
-Stripped out/missing header bolts

The list goes on...
 

treesnake

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I didn't take it that way. Ronnie is not very clinical when discussing heads, it's psuedo scientific jargon supporting whatever it is he happens to be selling. In other words if he isn't selling it it's junk.

There are several ways to go on heads obviously. We've seen great power from OEM heads as well as aftermarket. Ultimately, a Viper owner needs to do his own research and go with makes him happy. It's nice to have choices.

Have you ported your intake? There's a lot of room for improvement on that manifold.

Funny you should ask that... As a matter of fact I have.
Thanks for the great job YOU did porting my intake....:headbang:

The first photo is ported intake on top of Striker heads. The spacer ring on the top of the heads was needed because I used Gen 3 valve covers. You need the extra clearance when using RRs and the shallower Gen 3 VCs



Some of GG's porting craftsmanship... (minus the nos jets...)



 
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2002_red_gts

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Wow that's a nice looking intake. That was my next question I have found a good deal on a fully ports and honed intake. Is there alot to be gained o. A gen 2 car even if it's stock. The heads will come as I save up money just trying to piece a set up together
 

evomind

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Wow that's a nice looking intake. That was my next question I have found a good deal on a fully ports and honed intake. Is there alot to be gained o. A gen 2 car even if it's stock. The heads will come as I save up money just trying to piece a set up together

id like to know too.
 
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You pre-paid for parts. The labor was going to be a trade out.

I can send your parts or your parts money back any time.

I've also responded to all of your e-mails. No need to imply on here I'm dodging you.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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For the record I did not mean to imply that Greg was dodging me. For some time we've kidd'ed each other about Asian hookers and I should have tied something like that into my post. My apologies if I lead anyone to believe Greg wasn't a standup guy. The constant praise Greg has gotten for years and the fact that his business continues to thrive speaks for itself.

Again, my apologies. But I am wondering if I paid him in Japanese Yen instead of dollars. :)
 

evomind

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so the turn around time could be about a year?
thats a long time.
 

TexasPettey

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Greg got to my heads in ~2 months from drop off to pick up on both occasions, including some extenuating circumstances that could have easily added to that time. If you tell him you've got a deadline, I've found him to be very realistic with his estimates on getting the work done.

The other thing you'll see from Greg is 100% top notch work. If there is something that needs to be done to make it right, he's going to let you know and you can be sure he's not BS'ing. This includes things that come up mid project, which are often overlooked by low quality shops.

I'm a bit biased, as he did a great job on my Gen1 heads. They flow 305cfm on the intake, which is 95% of the way to the best Gen2 flow numbers I've seen.
 

plumcrazy

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from what i have seen with guys ive sent gregs way, 2 months is pretty average. its been a while since he did mine, but thats what i remember it taking. my experince is like texaspetty.
 

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