My Thoughts on SRT-10 Coupe

Recently back from Detroit, and I agree 98.7% w/ Bill Pemberton's 'passionate' post. But here are my own random thoughts, selfishly placed in a new thread.
P.S. Moderators: Time to re-name this area SRT-10 / SRT-10 Coupe. Make 'VGX' fade away?

1) I love the re-designed coupe (having seen 3 different mules) and I have mine 'ordered.' I got the 1st-ever-released GTS and I hope I get an early SRT-Coupe. It will be my 13th Viper, not counting organ-donor cars for parts. The seats seem a bit smaller, and the rear cockpit bulkhead needs to improve rearward visibility...and it WILL before production. The "bump" in the headliner behind the rear-view mirror is too large for tall guys. I dislike it a whole lot. But SRT listens.......

Hint: I saw an SRT-10 mule in COPPERHEAD, and while touring the ASC plant where panels are made and painted, I saw the Copperhead color on their schedule for the near future. Maybe it was a show car ...maybe production. But NICE!

2) Z-06? It took GM (3+ years Under Lutz no less) 15 YEARS to CATCH UP . Repeating; CATCH UP. They made the C-6 more SRT-10 like, agreed? The SRT uses a big chunk of magnesium in ALL SRTs, and now, so does (only) Z-06. Yea, the HP/Wt tips to Z-06, and lap times will probably equalize. But I suspect their 'suggested' performance numbers are optimistic. Did Z-o6 improve? YUP, a lot. They MATCHED the performance bar, and raised it a few engineering (cost) points. That balsa-cored floor is cool. Lots of aluminum. Engineered++.

3) But HP concerns? For about $2000 in (MoPar) parts, dealers can add 25HP. For about $4000,add 50HP. Call it an SRT-10 Coupe w/ Stage I , Stage II upgrades.

4) To re-certify the SRT-10 motor as a knee-**** to a Z-06 would be cost-prohibitive. TRULY ! Better to raise the bar (significantly) in the future, and let Z-06 owners (not C-6 owners in general) breathe a sigh NOW because they FINALLY caught up to the Viper. It took them ~15 years, since the 1st Z-06. No biggie. I have NEVER encountered an arrogant, taunting, Z-06 owner, but if I did, I'd simply say: "Took ya long enuf....15 years just to CATCH UP!

5) Do I think that Viper will have more HP in the future? YUP. And think about it: Viper would be dumb to overlook the biggest buzzword in the auto industry today: HEMI. Dean Hansen asked the SRT-Tech session at VOI.8 this very question: "Why not capitilize on the Hemi-Hype with a new Viper hemi-head motor"? The body language on the SRT panel SHOUTED at you. Heads went down. Mouths were covered. Arms folded. Mouths smirked. Read between those lines.

6) D-C Marketing Guys Note: Corvette blew it by NOT (yet) capitilizing on the "dreaded" 427 moniker. The FIRST Z-06 only made a handful, but it is legendary. They should use 427 too! I bet Ecklers sells a lot of crossed-flag 427 badges for Z-06 owners.

The 426 HEMI is even MORE legendary....It used to mean C.I. But these 425 HP 6.1 Hemis need just one more HP to be 426HP. Find it. Then, Badge these 300-Cs and trucks and whatever as a 426 HEMI. Women and Children will hide. Seniors will smile. Bench racing will commence. Money will be made.

7) My 14th Viper will be the next brute that SRT build us. But my 13th will be the SRT-10 Coupe. Blue-White please. And I wont fear any Z-06, or feel inferior or threatened in any way when one is nearby. Becasue Ill still be in a VIPER.... and they'll be in just another Corvette. And Im probably a waaaay better driver. Ooops...I'm bench racing again.....

KEEP THE FAITH..........

The 426 HEMI is even MORE legendary....It used to mean C.I. But these 425 HP 6.1 Hemis need just one more HP to be 426HP. Find it. Then, Badge these 300-Cs and trucks and whatever as a 426 HEMI. Women and Children will hide. Seniors will smile. Bench racing will commence. Money will be made.

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Note that the 426 Hemi was rated at 425 HP by Chrysler - I think they find the 425 HP rating for the 6.1 to be historically significant alreay. Now if they would just find a car worthy of the heritage to put the 6.1 in...

....... Now if they would just find a car worthy of the heritage to put the 6.1 in...

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If D-C builds the FIREPOWER (and re-names it) they will be in the ballpark!

....... Now if they would just find a car worthy of the heritage to put the 6.1 in...

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If D-C builds the FIREPOWER (and re-names it) they will be in the ballpark!

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Agreed, but the Charger is not even close to being worthy of the name or the heritage.

Great comments Jon!!!

JonB,

Great Observations Agree the 426 Hemi is brings back memories. I had a 69 Plastic PiG 427 3x2 and was blown away by a 426 Hemi which ****** my chain hard! I replaced the 427 with a LS7 Open Chambered Al head 454. Memories are still there! Likely why I can not bring myself to buy another Corvette(felt GM did not support street performance enough) no matter its performance numbers.

Jon, points taken, but I have a feeling the new z06 will blow the srt's doors off on a road course, in mear mortals hands a c5 z06 is a close race right now, with all the technology that the vette has got to be a monster, and the mods theory also applies to the small block, im sure there are aftermarket upgrades allready in the works, not to mention the awesome dry sump system.

Also where are you getting 15 years of the zo6? I had a 94 vette with a zo6 option & all it had were bigger wheels & rear gear, nothing else, hardly a comparison to the c5 at all. We are all viper fanatics, but props must be given to GM,I have had many a vette & the price gouging by a local dealer when the c5 came out drove me into my GTS& I couldnet be happier,BUT.............I have to say Im considering a new vette for the first time in 8 years, thats saying something(& keeping my viper of course!)

Jon,

Great post! I will see the SRT10 in a few weeks here in Chicago at the charity preview event. Can't wait!!!

JON-----Great Post! I'm sick of hearing my Father-In law tell me how great the new Vette is going to be. I've owned 2 and its like you said its still a Corvette. The price is also getting up there. They will loose a few of the seniors citizens with this one!

Come on guys, lets stop with the age related Vette owner comments. I am sure not everyone that owns a Viper is 21 or less. Both cars are great. Lets pick on the Porsche and Lambo drivers -- they are the jokes right?

Come on guys, lets stop with the age related Vette owner comments. I am sure not everyone that owns a Viper is 21 or less. Both cars are great. Lets pick on the Porsche and Lambo drivers -- they are the jokes right?

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I got my viper at 10 and im 21 now.

Well said Jon! I cannot wait for the both of the new GTS and the Z06 to come out.



P.S. Can we just pick on the Porsche guys since I own a Viper and a Lambo?

05 Yellow SRT10
03 Red SRT (gone)
02 Graphite GTS (gone)
97 Red GTS (gone)
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Our other cars: 2005 SL65 Pewter / 2005 G55 Graphite / 2005 SSR Silver / 2004 Gallardo Yellow / 2004 NSX Black / 2004 Z06 Machine Silver / 2004 H2 White / 2002 Candy Red Prowler + 2001 Orange Prowler + 2001 Silver Prowler / 2002 35th Anniversary Camaro SS Convertible / 1970 Black Chevy SWB Pick up / 1969 Garnet Red Camaro SS 350 / 1969 Chevelle SS 396 / 1969 Impala SS 427 / 1968 Chevy Step Side Truck L98/700r4 / 1967 Hugger Orange Camaro 400 / 1955 Yellow Chevrolet Truck / 1934 Ford Sedan / 1930 Ford Hiboy Coupe 302 5spd

Jon, all of your points are on target. However the pendulum swings, and in the case of the Z06 it may have swung to Chevys favor. As for point 3, it seems wrong to have to mod a more expensive Viper to beat a stock Vette, even if it is a Z06. I will always have both Vipers and Vettes, and will track what I feel is superior. I hope that feeling comes from a Viper again someday.

JonB,

Great Observations Agree the 426 Hemi is brings back memories. I had a 69 Plastic PiG 427 3x2 and was blown away by a 426 Hemi which ****** my chain hard! I replaced the 427 with a LS7 Open Chambered Al head 454. Memories are still there! Likely why I can not bring myself to buy another Corvette(felt GM did not support street performance enough) no matter its performance numbers.

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Plastic Pig? LOL My Stingray was 700lbs LIGHTER than my Hemi, not counting faster. Most people confuse the performance output of the "Street Hemi" (which came in MOPAR factory cars) vs the "Race Hemi" which were used for the track. Two totally different beast.

I conceded and itemized the engineering points where the Z-o6 excels. SRT shared their 'budget' to bring out an SRT-10 based Coupe, and state-of-the-art elemts were not in the cards for 2005.5 Coupe. Noteworthy: Z-06 427 has an 11 to 1 Compression ratio. Viper is still 9.6

I took a bit of license w/ years....Viper has been around since 1992, so 2005 is only 14 years it took GM to catch up-equal-(exceed?) some of the Vipers STATS. But GM certainly has not met-exceeded the CURB APPEAL of the new SRT-Coupe, in my opinion.

But that ZO6 at the Detroit show was truly awesome...the chassis display was impressive, and even the "spokesmodel" new a LOT about the car and could answer intelligent questions. The SRT-Coupe babe knew only her memorized script.

HINTS: Something neat is coming from D-C at NY Show..... stay tuned!

Regarding that note on 11 to 1 compression. The ZO-6's literature stated 93 octane is required. The best fuel I can get in California is 91 octane. Will the Vette's knock sensor dial back the Horsepower/Torque so that I get less than 500 Hp?

Regarding that note on 11 to 1 compression. The ZO-6's literature stated 93 octane is required. The best fuel I can get in California is 91 octane. Will the Vette's knock sensor dial back the Horsepower/Torque so that I get less than 500 Hp?

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91 octane will suffice. No way ANY manufactor today will build a car that isn't 50 state leagal(not speaking in terms of emissions). Even though it's 11:1 the aluminum block and heads will dissipate heat enough to run 91.

Guys -- You don't seem to understand that the German's have taken over this company. When the merger happened -- there were 12 Americans and 12 Germans on the board. It is now 23 Germans and One American executive. They DO NOT care about the heritage of Dodge ( look at what they did to the Charger now after they had the sleek concept in '99. -- designed by the same guy who designed the Viper GTS ) Mercedes runs the show. These guys have no intwrest at all about the heritage of this company. And they do not care. To let the Corvette over take the Viper -- or come close -- is proof enough that they don't understand or care about what it means to us. They don't. And you can expect more of the same, bland, right-angle cars from these guys.
Name me some classic cars that have the harsh squared off lines and still get raves decades later..........The cars that remain " classic " have flowing, curving lines....

My 2 cents

My brother worked for a German engineering company, American input is the last thing they wanted. American advancement in the company? Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!

Its funny you talk about catch up...the Corvette has always been the nicer car, just had less power. Now that people do not recognize the Viper on the street anymore(other then Gen 1 and 2's) there is really no comparison between the new z06 and Viper.

Now that people do not recognize the Viper on the street anymore(other then Gen 1 and 2's)

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I think you've been misinformed.

HINTS: Something neat is coming from D-C at NY Show..... stay tuned!

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Jon,
That was a great post! Good to hear about the copperhead orange being put into production. Can't wait to see it. Do you know for sure what is coming to the NY show? I might just be going to that in March with a couple of buds from another forum (where supposed to meet at Manhattan Motorcars on Saturday). If there's anything there I'll be sure to take pics and videos!

Ron

BTW if anyone else in the area is going I'll be having my viper jacket on.

Hopefully it's a new body style at the NY show, and not some new color. (sigh)

Great comments Jon. I just hope a future Hemi Viper motor will retain 500 cubic inches. A 6 something liter Hemi in a Viper would be a big disappointment even with the latest technology.

The Germans do not have a monopoly on engine technology - I've said it before and I'll say it again - the current basic 500 cubic inch engine can be made to over 1000hp (turbocharged), pass emissions at part throttle and attain 30mpg at steady 65mph. Let those who scoff at that pretend it can't.

I know this is possible via specific improvements that are so easy to make to what has been done by others already.

The Viper motor weighs no more and probably less than the current big Merc V12 TT. The power per weight and efficiency in a much more simple package is not old tech at all. The 500 c.i. V10 is just a lot more cubic inches in a package that is lighter and smaller than a 4.6 32 Valve Ford V8.

A Hemi 500 c.i. V10 would rule. ESPECIALLY if they made it sound like the big prototype FORD V10.... now THAT baby sounds unbelievable.... no current Viper can sound like that Ford mule - but DC could change that.

I would love to see a HEMI head V-10 in the Viper. It would more than likely raise the HP enough to not worry about the Z06 and would capitalize on the HEMI craze right now.

As for the 426 returning, I'm not sure about that one. If they could honestly make something to put it in that would do the name and heritage justice, then ok, but I am not convinced that they can.

The Charger didn't make me too happy, but I guess you cannot hit 1000 all the time. The 300C and Magnum are tremendous hits.

Now if they did it right and broght back the 426 HEMI 'Cuda, well I would have to start selling things to buy it. But for now, I would rather leave the 426 to the days of old, that is until I can manage to build a 426 Dart.

Come on guys, lets stop with the age related Vette owner comments. I am sure not everyone that owns a Viper is 21 or less. Both cars are great. Lets pick on the Porsche and Lambo drivers -- they are the jokes right?

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Just brought my 2003 SRT-10 home today. It is my second Viper, the first being a 96. Just sold my second Vette, yesterday. I've also had Porsches, and driven quite a few Ferraris. Took Skip Barber in the 2003 Viper.

I'm 54. I remember thinking that I was having a ball in a 66 Mustang 289 Convertible, a Datsun 1600, a 77 MGB. Dumping on anyone' modern ride is really a reflection on how spoiled we've all become. We are all so incredibly lucky to have the chance to ride, much less own, cars like modern Vipers and Vettes. I waved to Vettes when I had a Vette, and I still will. And I won't turn down a ride in anyone's Porsche Turbo.

Frankly, a lot of this is the driver. I canyon raced a buddy who teaches motorcycle track school (I took the course when I had my Honda 929) in my 96 Viper against his Porsche Boxster. He's a better driver than I am. I couldn't drop him in the twisties. That's where skill matters. The cars are closely matched. The guy with the most track classes is going to drive the best, and whatever he's in, will be the better car. Othewise they are just going to be too close to differentiate. And yes, Millen didn't get his corner exits comfortable recently, and got taken down by the new C6. Not even the new Z06.

And yes, I'm OLD. But let's ******** the running shoes and go out for a 1/2 marathon or so. Then we can talk more about how OLD I am. I don't think age has much to do with whether you will enjoy a Porsche, Vette, or Viper. It's which car do you like better. My C5 Vette is a much easier car to go fast in on the streets than my 2003 Viper. But the Viper is just where I wanted to be. It just feels right for me. And that, I believe, is the litmus test for any of these vehicles.

Great post, congrats on your car!!!

Is anyone else besides me tired of the "merger bashers"? The Germans did this or that, yadda, yadda. Does anyone read the financial pages? Keep up with automotive business news? Auto sales figures? Chrysler is showing constant gains in sales over the last 3-4 quarters. GM and Ford are down. BIG winners 300, Magnum and Durango. 300 and Magnum being sold with NO incentives except financing and huge backorders at the plant. Let's talk trucks and SUVs, last week GM just rolled back MSRP on a bunch of their stuff by $2000, veeerry quietly. Crossfire is all SLK underneath and 300 and Magnum are all E class. This merger is starting to ROCK! Now the MERCEDES side, they are in the tank with financials, but no one at this point can say that the Germans have not pulled Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep up by the bootstraps by pouring Mersedes technology into the American cars. Talk to a Mercedes salesman lately? They are honked that DC built the 300C and are rolling it out the door at 38k loaded against an E500 with less horsepower for 60k. Mercedes just threw a V6 in the E class to get the price point down around 50k......Jeez, we even have a HEMI in the Jeep now. Ahh, yes, the glory days, before the Germans, the K Car and Cab forward.... takes my breath away....those were the days!
And another thing....the Z06.....never have SO many been SO sure that a car will be SO fast before the car has turned a wheel even in a magazine. Yes, a bunch of wonderful sounding forged magnesium thingees. And 500HP.......jeez, they actually caught up........They CAUGHT UP, they did not surpass the Viper in horsepower and I for one bet the cars will be dead even in testing, and I bet the Viper exceeds the Vette in top speed easily, have you ever wondered how those vents in the fenders on the Vette that looked like they are super glued on will work from an aero standpoint at 160mph plus? And I don't think the Vette engine is going to produce much more horsepower, the space between cylinder walls is paper thin now, and the compression ratio is going to work against serious power adders, while we all know the potential of the V10 to make ridiculous horsepower. SRT has played a great game of poker, wait and see what Chevy brought to the table, 6 months ago the rumors were 700HP for Z06. Now all SRT has to do is slap on a supercharger or modified heads and better headers and surprise....2006 ACR with 600-650HP.....And that's my prediction. Oh, and I also still own a "Plastic Pig."

Lee! Great post. Beer on me at the first luncheon.