VCA "Last Ram SRT-10" Raffle

MoparMan

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

You know whats funny, we are all bashing it over here, but over on the srt-10 section, they are praising it... damn combovers.. (sorry couldnt help myself, its a joke)
http://www4.forum.viperclub.org/showflat...;gonew=1#UNREAD

I don't know that it's so much "bashing" as criticizing. For some reason certain VCA figures are very sensitive to any sort of criticism whatsoever. I guess our $100 yearly fee buys us the right to drink the Kool-Aid and shut the heck up.
 

94RT10Ohio

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

Lots of negativity here.

Let me get this right. I am going to assume some of you buy the occasional $1 lottery ticket. WHich if it is for the big game (millions of dollars) your odds are something like 1 in 50 million. Meaning you will probably never win the prize.

Here you spend $100 to get 1 in 2800 odds and bash??? It is a much better deal when you look at it this way.

Not that I want to start a war, but I think some need to lighten up. Some of you sound like Mustang owners. If you do not want a ticket so be it, do not trash the efforts of others.
 

ViperGTS

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

You know - we have a saying here ...

... a lightning will hit you on the *** much earlier before you will win the lottery ... ;-)


Read the preamble. Item 7. This is a car club. Enthusiasts. Nothing more.
NO politics. NO reglion. No profit. No ...

PUR FUN - with our cars and friends.

- good (mid)night -
 
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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

>>>The VCA may very well be the one holding the next VOI,...<<<

That is an interesting "statement" in the a.m. "S2000 section" - seems to be that DODGE is not doing a VOI.10?!

LOL!! Why would they?!?! The VCA has become just another car club...nothing really to set it apart from any other car club...Mopar Car Club, Yugo Car Club, etc.

Since the VCA and the Viper have now joined the ranks of the Ram and Neon....DC would have to to a ROI and a NOI as well as a VOI!! LOL!
 
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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

Lots of negativity here.

Let me get this right. I am going to assume some of you buy the occasional $1 lottery ticket. WHich if it is for the big game (millions of dollars) your odds are something like 1 in 50 million. Meaning you will probably never win the prize.

Here you spend $100 to get 1 in 2800 odds and bash??? It is a much better deal when you look at it this way.

Not that I want to start a war, but I think some need to lighten up. Some of you sound like Mustang owners. If you do not want a ticket so be it, do not trash the efforts of others.

Nothing to do with the $$$ per se......but the fact that, well, let me put it this way:

The SRT-10 RAM QC Black Thunder (or whatever it is) has precisely WHAT to do with the VIPER Club?

They are GIVING SRT-10 RAMS away......exactly WHAT is there to be all excited about?

The VCA USED to bring you ONE OF A KIND vehicles (VIPERS)....RT/10 ACR, Wayne's Blue ACR one-of-a-kind. Now...you get a Ram they can't give away. Well....I guess they can based on this raffle. :)
 

Gerald Levin

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

Lots of negativity here.

Let me get this right. I am going to assume some of you buy the occasional $1 lottery ticket. WHich if it is for the big game (millions of dollars) your odds are something like 1 in 50 million. Meaning you will probably never win the prize.

Here you spend $100 to get 1 in 2800 odds and bash??? It is a much better deal when you look at it this way.

Not that I want to start a war, but I think some need to lighten up. Some of you sound like Mustang owners. If you do not want a ticket so be it, do not trash the efforts of others.

I'm not a math wiz but I have 8 years of college so that probably makes me smarter than 110% of everyone here. :eek: So let's say that 100 people went in on each $100 ticket. So there are 2,800,000 people, each with a $1 invested, trying to win the grand prize. No, its not a government screwjob as in the lottery (which is really a tax since you can't possibly win) but one chance in 2,800,000 is a monumental screwjob and you have a better chance of going to bed tonight and waiting up in the morning with me next to you then winning that friggin truck. And I'm sure that is a lovely thought. :headbang: Odds of 1:2,800,000 are insane. And yes math degenerates, the odds are 1:2,800,000. If you bought every ticket what would it cost and what would it yield? 1 truck=$2,800,000. Nucking Futs. :bonker:
 
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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

Gerald Correct you are not a math wiz. :bonker:

$100/ticket * 2750 tickets = $275,000(total take). You are off by a little decmile point. If all tickets are sold lowest take is $229,200

Odds of winning are 1:2750. :)

Being creative with numbers makes it easy to distort facts, Why not use pennies so you sell one ticket to 10,000 people for one penny. :confused:

I will play the number game the other way, everyone pays 250.00/three tickets. That means there are only 916 people with three tickets and one person with 2. Odds for each person are 1:917. :eek:
 

Marv S

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

So you're saying the take is $2,800,000 gross?

re-run those calcs.

[I'm not a math wiz but I have 8 years of college so that probably makes me smarter than 110% of everyone here. :eek: So let's say that 100 people went in on each $100 ticket. So there are 2,800,000 people, each with a $1 invested, trying to win the grand prize. No, its not a government screwjob as in the lottery (which is really a tax since you can't possibly win) but one chance in 2,800,000 is a monumental screwjob and you have a better chance of going to bed tonight and waiting up in the morning with me next to you then winning that friggin truck. And I'm sure that is a lovely thought. :headbang: Odds of 1:2,800,000 are insane. And yes math degenerates, the odds are 1:2,800,000. If you bought every ticket what would it cost and what would it yield? 1 truck=$2,800,000. Nucking Futs. :bonker:

To be accurate plug in the quantity discount of 3 tks for $250 (2,750 tickets total)
 

Gerald Levin

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

Fred, You are correctomondo. So I'm off by a freaking decimal point but the point of my Einsteinian theory is this raffle blows. When $100/ticket makes no sense since there are 2750 other tickets, then $250 for 3 tickets makes less sense. Why not $500 for 7 tickets, $1000 for 15 tickets, $2000 for 31 tickets, $4000 for 63 tickets, $8000 for 127 tickets, $16000 for 255 tickets, etc. So for $16000 you could get a 10% chance on a Ram after taxes will save you a few bucks if you are lucky. Like I said, I aint no CPA but this sux buttocks (buttockes? butti? buttafuco?). Anyone that is proactive/supportive for this raffle is either with the VCA or only has a $100 to his name and wants to quit walking to work.
 
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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

Now I get it! :bonker: You do not like the raffle prize. :nono: I am sure there are many who do not. In the past people also did not like the paint, or did not want a Race Car, etc. Can not please all people all the time.

I am a VCA member and support same. I will support the raffle as long as it is fast and has 10 cylinders.
 

94RT10Ohio

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

Lots of negativity here.

Let me get this right. I am going to assume some of you buy the occasional $1 lottery ticket. WHich if it is for the big game (millions of dollars) your odds are something like 1 in 50 million. Meaning you will probably never win the prize.

Here you spend $100 to get 1 in 2800 odds and bash??? It is a much better deal when you look at it this way.

Not that I want to start a war, but I think some need to lighten up. Some of you sound like Mustang owners. If you do not want a ticket so be it, do not trash the efforts of others.

Nothing to do with the $$$ per se......but the fact that, well, let me put it this way:

The SRT-10 RAM QC Black Thunder (or whatever it is) has precisely WHAT to do with the VIPER Club?

They are GIVING SRT-10 RAMS away......exactly WHAT is there to be all excited about?

The VCA USED to bring you ONE OF A KIND vehicles (VIPERS)....RT/10 ACR, Wayne's Blue ACR one-of-a-kind. Now...you get a Ram they can't give away. Well....I guess they can based on this raffle. :)

Yes, it is not a Viper. But last I looked it was a Dodge with a Viper drive train.

I do agree, does not belong in the GEN I II area, should be in the pit.

Sorry it is just some of the comments in this post just seems like I have a Viper and all other Dodge products can kiss my ***. Just rubs me the wrong way to see some do this when there are others within the VCA making efforts to make CAR people happy!! Thought most here were not like this....

To the people who organize the give aways, keep up the good work. If it is a Dodge SRT-8 or higher you have my interest.
 
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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

???? :confused:

It was the ONE OFF raffles of ONE-OF-A-KIND vehicles that sort of set the VCA apart from all other Dodge (or, insert you favorite car name) products.

You call it good work...I call it B. S.

Then....to have it open to the public.....something like this should be Dodge handling it, and touting it as a Dodge thing. It has NOTHING to do with the VCA except the $$$$....NOTHING about CAR people...unless they are named BENJAMIN!
 

Y2K5SRT

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

CRAP!! I just spent the last hour and a half typing one of my infamous novels and it disappeared when I hit "post" ("form no longer available"). Oh well, my loss is your gain - here is the Cliff Notes version followed by the more detailed explanation:
________________________________________________________________________

Cliff Notes: The VCA makes no money besides the raffles. We alone were offered a very, very unique SRT vehicle. We took that opportunity, and knowing not all Viper owners wanted a truck, made it a raffle open to everybody.
________________________________________________________________________

Okay, let's expand on the Cliff Notes now. Let me start by saying that I am speaking (typing) only on behalf of myself. I don't take a National office until January 1st. So the following is in no way endorsed by anybody, past or present, from the VCA. Here we go:

First off, how many raffles are held to bring in only the cost of the prize itself? None, of course. That would be absurd. Raffles are designed to raise money for an organization. Pretty simple. Now this particular raffle is for a VERY unique vehicle that many people would love to own - whether it be for $100 or $15,000 (if that were really the tax amount). Does it appeal to all Viper owners? Of course not. And that is why it is the first raffle to be offered outside of the VCA. But what really kills me is that it is the Viper owners that are complaining about it - and yet they are the only ones that directly benefit from it. The key is to understand exactly what and why this raffle is what it is.

Quick - how much of your $100 annual dues go to the National VCA? Tick-tock, tick-tock. Give up? The answer: Not a single penny from your annual dues goes to the National VCA. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Your dues go back to your regional clubs, VIPER magazine, membership badges, and club management (who is 100% JR Thompson - no VCA officers are paid a nickel). Yet the National VCA has to come up with funds for such things as Zone Rendezvous, VCA Notes ($38K), sponsorships like Viper Days ($15K), awards, banners, liability insurance for every member at every club event, membership renewal gifts, website expenses, additional management fees from JRT (800 number, flyers, etc.), board meetings, regional stipends, postage, conference calls, etc. Oh yeah, and raffle cars - often at MSRP plus any costs of customization.

So how much does the VCA spend? Well, according to the budget we received in April, the estimate for 2006 VCA expenses was $314,217. And the estimated income? $165,000. You do the math. So, where does the VCA come up with that $165,000 - much less the total amount of $314,217? Besides some minor categories like website advertising, VCA merchandise, and ads in VCA Notes - the raffles, of course. Without those raffles the VCA would cease to exist in a matter of seconds. So that brings us to this one.

Besides a handful of DC execs, how many people can call up the factory and tell them they want the very last car or truck off the line produced for that model? Very few, if any. If you knew you could end up with that vehicle for $100 or even $83.34, would you take a shot at it - regardless of what it was? Maybe. And if you were a Mopar fan and this was a significant Mopar, even more likely.

Now let's say you run the VCA. And let's say DaimlerChrysler/SRT offered to sell you the very last Viper-engine truck ever made. Even better, it was in the crew cab version (family-sized) and in the limited Night Runner trim. Not only did it carry the #400 of 400 plaque (which offers yet another very interesting twist of trivia), but it was signed by the folks on the assembly line and various folks from Team SRT. Would you turn it down? Or would you jump all over it with the thought of raffling it off to raise much-needed funds for the club? Assuming you wanted your VCA to stay in business, you would jump all over it.

So then comes the question of how many tickets and at what price. Will all the Viper owners want a truck? Nope. So should we sell a lot less tickets than the typical 2000? Or should we make this opportunity open to other car enthusiasts besides Viper owners? The result is that your National Board of Directors was consulted and agreed to raise the number of tickets minimally and decrease the cost as well ($100 vs. $125). What we felt was a pretty reasonable thing considering that we raised the number of eligible buyers from roughly 5,000 to roughly 100,000 that might be interested. Mind you, we had to jump through numerous legal hoops to do it, but we succeeded.

Now here is the kicker: That money directly benefits Viper owners in the VCA and nobody else. If anybody should be upset it should be the non-Viper owner: Joe Blow drops $250 and doesn't win the truck. Yet his $250 will go to benefit all those fat-cat Viper owners (tongue planted firmly in cheek). Are they complaining? Nope. I have let every car club I know of about this raffle and they were excited to get a shot at a significant "last of" vehicle. Hell, if I had a shot at the last Ford Lightning produced I would have bought tickets to that in a heartbeat - and I am not a Ford guy at all.

The bottom line is that the VCA offers a LOT of benefits for its members. And I suspect those benefits will continue to increase and become even more obvious. Including unique opportunities like this one. Now those benefits come at a substantial cost and the only way to cover that is with raffles. The VCA had the opportunity to acquire an incredible vehicle and jumped all over it. In order to assure that it sells well they offered it to nonmembers for the very first time. The idea is to keep the VCA strong and continue to underwrite major events, gifts, and numerous other direct benefits for our members. Greed? Absolutely not. The VCA wants to give back as much as possible to their members. Where else would it go?

Respectfully submitted,

Chris

PS. I would have been the first to buy tickets for this one but National Officers (or electees) cannot participate. Call me first if you win! :2tu:
 

IEATVETS

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

That explains that BUT (underlined) I feel that letting any Joe in on this raffle is not right. This is a club of Viper owners, for Viper owners and the VCA is now letting outsiders in. Whats next, any Joe will be able to buy a raffle ticket for the next special edition Viper?
 
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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

I'm all for ANYTHING that brings in $$$ to the VCA!! Maybe the Nevada guys can get some sort of raffle going on that includes "some ranch" out in Nevada!! :)
 

V10SpeedLuvr

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

That explains that BUT (underlined) I feel that letting any Joe in on this raffle is not right. This is a club of Viper owners, for Viper owners and the VCA is now letting outsiders in. Whats next, any Joe will be able to buy a raffle ticket for the next special edition Viper?

I think Chris made a good point. Allowing anyone to buy tickets helps support the VCA. Since some Viper guys ONLY like the Viper car and not truck, this will help sell more tickets since selling the idea of a truck raffle to exotic car owners could be tough. I do AGREE that all Viper (car) raffles should be VCA members only. But if they need to allow the general public in on this raffle to help sales, more $$ for us :)
 

twinturbo3150

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

I'm all for ANYTHING that brings in $$$ to the VCA!! Maybe the Nevada guys can get some sort of raffle going on that includes "some ranch" out in Nevada!! :)


where do I buy tickets!!!!! :2tu:
 

Y2K5SRT

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

That explains that BUT (underlined) I feel that letting any Joe in on this raffle is not right. This is a club of Viper owners, for Viper owners and the VCA is now letting outsiders in. Whats next, any Joe will be able to buy a raffle ticket for the next special edition Viper?
Agreed 110%. And it was hotly debated among the National Board as well. The challenge was that many have the same attitude expressed earlier in this thread: "A truck? Who wants a dang truck?" So the options were:

A. Decrease the number of tickets to something more in line with the interests of the average Viper owner. Unfortunately, as has already been demonstrated here, that might only be 400 tickets at $100 a pop. Not even enough to cover the cost of the truck.

B. Decrease the cost of the ticket but leave the amount available the same. Again, the challenge is that if you decrease the cost to say, $25 a ticket, even a sell out of 2000 tickets just covers the cost of the truck and the administrative fees (mailers, etc.).

C. Because it is not a Viper but is a historical vehicle (the impact of which you can decide for yourself), we could make other folks eligible to buy these tickets, thereby increasing our pool of potential buyers.

Obviously we went with "C" because we wanted to keep the price and number of tickets in the same basic range as previously held. And because it is a pretty significant vehicle for many collectors (Mopar especially), we thought offering this one outside would not only be good for the club (income), but also give other folks the opportunity to own a pretty special vehicle - that is not a Viper.

I don't think this establishes a precedent at all, at least as far as Viper raffles go. We know that Viper owners like to have shots at special Vipers and that we will generally sell out most Viper raffles without going outside of the club. Thus I can't see them opening up to nonmembers. It is a very distinct member benefit and the club knows it. However if we should ever happen to have another opportunity to acquire a "special" SRT vehicle (non-Viper), I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar again.

Now the alternative is to do something like the Mercedes-Benz Club of America, upon which the VCA was originally based: They also hold multiple raffles that have a car as a grand prize (and generally nothing special - no "one-offs"). They sell 8500 tickets at $60 each for a total of $510,000 per raffle. Only MBCA members can buy those tickets. And here is the kicker: <u>Anybody</u> can become an MBCA member regardless of whether they even own a car, much less a Mercedes. They even have a link on their raffle page for nonmembers to first join the club and then buy their tickets.

I suspect most here would prefer the way our club addresses this, don't you agree?
 

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

Chris - very nice commentary. One way that the VCA could have eased some of the concerns about opening this up to the general public would have been to have opened the raffle up for a period of time to the VCA members - first come first served. If after that time frame, there were tickets left - open it to the general public.

I also agree with those that have stated the obvious - if you don't like the truck or the raffle terms - simple - don't buy a ticket!

Merry Christmas!
 

Y2K5SRT

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

One way that the VCA could have eased some of the concerns about opening this up to the general public would have been to have opened the raffle up for a period of time to the VCA members - first come first served. If after that time frame, there were tickets left - open it to the general public.
Excellent idea! And actually our first choice that I left out of the options above. The problem was that there was no legal way to do it: Neither our attorneys or the State of Michigan (where it is licensed) would allow it. You establish the eligible purchasers up front and with no time constraints other than the end of the raffle itself. Definitely a great idea though!

Merry Christmas right back to you and the rest of the folks up there in Iowa...
 

big-n-italian

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

out of curiosity - if this raffle is open to the general public, how is the raffle going to be marketed outside the VCA?
 

shelbynut

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

More curiosity, am I correct in that the winner has to pay the taxes on the vehicle? And if so, is there a legal (or any) reason why? Just wondering why the VCA doesn't raffle off its cars "free and clear", with no tax burden going to the winner. I would think it discourages alot of people from buying when they learn they have to fork over $5-10,000 or more in taxes to claim their prize...

Jay
 

Y2K5SRT

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

out of curiosity - if this raffle is open to the general public, how is the raffle going to be marketed outside the VCA?
Barely. The idea was to spread the word among friends and family of VCA members that might be interested in buying tickets. Buy some for relatives this holiday season (in their name) and they could win this truck on Valentines Day. A little birdie told me that many of the folks that work for SRT and DC will likely buy tickets as well - this is their first chance to win one as well. But to my knowledge the ONLY group of people that will get any mailings, e-mails, etc. will be paid VCA members. I don't think there is any advertising besides what members such as myself might post on other car forums.

More curiosity, am I correct in that the winner has to pay the taxes on the vehicle? And if so, is there a legal (or any) reason why? Just wondering why the VCA doesn't raffle off its cars "free and clear", with no tax burden going to the winner. I would think it discourages alot of people from buying when they learn they have to fork over $5-10,000 or more in taxes to claim their prize...
Unfortunately, that is the nature of raffles in general. I don't know of anybody, including the Mercedes Club and several others, that raffle off a car "free and clear" from taxes. Indeed, the Mercedes Club states right up front that 25% in Federal taxes will be withheld from the winners proceeds. They state right in their rules, "Winners of vehicles are responsible for all taxes and fees based on the MSRP of the prize that is also subject to Federal tax withholding of 25%." The only way I could see any club getting around that would be to tack on a "cash bonus" of roughly 25% of the vehicles MSRP as part of the winnings. Of course that 25% would be taxed another 25% again and there would be no way to pin down the actual tax bracket in which the winner belongs beforehand. And I strongly suspect the actual cash value of the prize has to be filed up front in order to get the license. Too many variables to do that in a "free and clear" scenario.

The one bit of good news is that I suspect any bank would gladly loan the 25% (or whatever the tax bite ends up) based on the overall value of the truck itself. And those meager payments would be a lot more manageable than on a Comp Coupe loan... :2tu:

PS to Jay (shelbynut): I don't think that any such issues face winners in Canada, as you guys can win the lottery up there without paying any taxes. I suspect this is the same deal, but check with VCA headquarters (800-998-1110) to be sure.
 

NHL2133

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

That explains that BUT (underlined) I feel that letting any Joe in on this raffle is not right. This is a club of Viper owners, for Viper owners and the VCA is now letting outsiders in. Whats next, any Joe will be able to buy a raffle ticket for the next special edition Viper?
...However if we should ever happen to have another opportunity to acquire a "special" SRT vehicle (non-Viper), I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar again.

So when can we expect a Challenger SRT-8? :nana:
 
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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

Thank you Chris....very in-depth explanation.

I will continue to be displeased at the overall concept, but will keep my mouth shut from here on out.
 

SRT10

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

I will continue to be displeased at the overall concept, but will keep my mouth shut from here on out.

Let me help!
You must be registered for see images
 

Bonkers

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Re: VCA \"Last Ram SRT-10\" Raffle

More curiosity, am I correct in that the winner
has to pay the taxes on the vehicle? And if so, is there
a legal (or any) reason why?
In America raffles are considered gambling and the proceeds
of which are thought strictly as earned income. The IRS doesn't
see this as an SRTRam raffle, but as a $45,000 cash raffle.
Legally speaking the winner will be charged federal tax plus
whatever state taxes are (plus any vehicle taxes if applicable)
- usually Fed + State run around 38% of MSRP.

Just wondering why the VCA doesn't raffle off its cars
"free and clear", with no tax burden going to the winner.
Some organizations have exemptions to allow the taxes to be
paid as part of the winnings, but from my understanding it is
a nightmare process costing thousands, if not tens of thousands
of dollars.

I would think it discourages alot of people from buying
when they learn they have to fork over $5-10,000 or more in
taxes to claim their prize...
Any prize or gift over $500 is subject to taxation in the
US, but you have to keep in mind that the taxes are almost never
above the low-market value of the vehicle your getting -
especially the ones this club gives out. You're pretty much
guaranteed to get either the car of your dreams VERY cheap or a
nice cash payout from the sale. Lets say this truck can sell on
ebay for $30,000 - I don't see anyone walking away from $30k just
because they would have to pay $10k in taxes.

Last year the VCA got me about $1200 in discounts on parts. If I
buy one ticket for each of the next ten raffles I'll still be ahead.
And that's just for this year! For that reason alone I'll pay my
dues and buy the tickets even if I don't want the car.
 
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