stay NA or bolt on a SC?

jwbond · Feb 6, 2007

I was recently surprised by a NA viper alley member's dyno numbers. his mods/numbers:

RSI:510cid stroker, Greg Good heads, 11.6:1cr, 1.7 T&D's, crower stg 1 street cam, Bellangers headers, HF Cats, Bellanger cat-back, Split Sec. Still stock intake and TB

545rwhp 581rwtq (corrected from 570rwhp 610rwtq@ RSI)

I prefer a NA car, would going this route be reliable? I don't ever want to do more than bolt on mods if the car is going to be in the shop!

monnieh · Feb 6, 2007

How much do you want to spend on the project?

CROM · Feb 6, 2007

It all depends on how much HP you want and how much you want to spend. Why exactly do you prefer the N/A route? Those numbers seem low for the mods listed. And you would be looking at over 20grand for those mods.

Just for comparison sake, you can get the same numbers with a 7500 dollar ROE Kit and 2000 in exhaust mods and be able to unbolt the thing if you plan to sell.

jwbond · Feb 6, 2007

$20K?!? alright, NA upgrades are out of the question...

To be honest, I am not ready for any signifigant power upgrades, but am just trying to figure out what my plans are for the future of my car. I can confidantly drive my vip, but I am sure I could get more out of it w/ more driving experience (possibly a school), which I plan on learning more on prior to doing any upgrades.

I like the idea of NA, as it is how the car got it's claim to fame, large displacement. Mentally, I associate lots of problems with FI, but perhaps that is due to all the highly modded four ****** grenades on the roads.

DAMN YANKEE · Feb 6, 2007

If "FI" = Fuel Injection, we need to have a larger discussion.
Does it?

Joseph Dell · Feb 6, 2007

If I were doing it all over from scratch, I'd go N/A with stryker heads, a custom ground crank, and bump up the CR to 11:1. That'll make some power!

JD

wastntim · Feb 6, 2007

If "FI" = Fuel Injection, we need to have a larger discussion.
Does it?

I think he was referring to Forced Induction

crazyspeed · Feb 6, 2007

I was recently surprised by a NA viper alley member's dyno numbers. his mods/numbers:

RSI:510cid stroker, Greg Good heads, 11.6:1cr, 1.7 T&D's, crower stg 1 street cam, Bellangers headers, HF Cats, Bellanger cat-back, Split Sec. Still stock intake and TB

I think 11.6:1cr is pushing the limit for reliability. Also remember...the big advantage of N/A is that you're not adding 110 lbs of weight over the front axle...something to be considered

jwbond · Feb 6, 2007

I think 11.6:1cr is pushing the limit for reliability. Also remember...the big advantage of N/A is that you're not adding 110 lbs of weight over the front axle...something to be considered

excellent point. have any of you s/c guys noticed a handling difference after installation?

jwbond · Feb 6, 2007

If "FI" = Fuel Injection, we need to have a larger discussion.
Does it?

Click to expand...

I think he was referring to Forced Induction

exactly

jwbond · Feb 6, 2007

If I were doing it all over from scratch, I'd go N/A with stryker heads, a custom ground crank, and bump up the CR to 11:1. That'll make some power!

JD

any idea how much power?

any idea on cost?

GTSNRT10 · Feb 6, 2007

excellent point. have any of you s/c guys noticed a handling difference after installation?

Big Time!!!!!! I can't seem to keep the rear in check (everytime I hit the gas the rear gets sideways

Once you S/C you will NOT regret it!! You'll just wonder how you enjoyed the car before u did

AJT · Feb 6, 2007

Nothing like BOOST!

Chuck 98 RT/10 · Feb 6, 2007

I think 11.6:1cr is pushing the limit for reliability. Also remember...the big advantage of N/A is that you're not adding 110 lbs of weight over the front axle...something to be considered

Click to expand...

excellent point. have any of you s/c guys noticed a handling difference after installation?

Most of them are dragracers and couldn't tell the handling difference between a Ford Excursion and an Enzo.

That should start some ****

IEATVETS · Feb 6, 2007

Just bolt on a Paxton blower and be done with it!

AJT · Feb 6, 2007

Steve 00RT/10 · Feb 6, 2007

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think 11.6:1cr is pushing the limit for reliability. Also remember...the big advantage of N/A is that you're not adding 110 lbs of weight over the front axle...something to be considered

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

excellent point. have any of you s/c guys noticed a handling difference after installation?

Net weight gain for a Roe is about 80 pounds. I noticed no difference on the street or my one excursion to the track last summer.

Steve

KMODStang · Feb 7, 2007

If I were doing it all over from scratch, I'd go N/A with stryker heads, a custom ground crank, and bump up the CR to 11:1. That'll make some power!

JD

Just out of curiosity, why? With my experience building a lot of cars, N/A seems to be so much more work and turns out to be more expensive. Just my opinion, but i love boost and i think thats the best way to go.

Joseph Dell · Feb 7, 2007

If I were doing it all over from scratch, I'd go N/A with stryker heads, a custom ground crank, and bump up the CR to 11:1. That'll make some power!

JD

Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, why? With my experience building a lot of cars, N/A seems to be so much more work and turns out to be more expensive. Just my opinion, but i love boost and i think thats the best way to go.

I've done both. Right now, i've got a TT. I started N/A and then went SC.

If _all_ you want is ~600rwhp, then N/A is less headache. no belts... no concern over detonation [if you detonate, you don't automatically blow up a piston], plus there isn't much to maintenance or break.

On the other hand, add a SC and the car becomes much more work. It doesn't _have_ to be if you go with a mild set-up... but 95% of us all want more power... and then things start to break.

That being said, a 10.5:1 or 11:1 CR motor WITH a small SC on it (6-10psi) would be more like it for me for the street.

But again, that's just me. All out race or SICK power, i'd go SC or TT.

JD

Camfab · Feb 7, 2007

Stock motor 488, stock 708 cam, stock compression, Stryker Heads + Headers + tune = 540 RWHP. Your still looking at 11K even if you do all the wrenching yourself. Great way to go with stock reliability. My guess is that this combo would be a close race with the '08 Viper.

Fishtail · Feb 7, 2007

Depends on which SC kit and how much power. I'm hooked on boost! Bolt on a SC :2tu:

Steve 00RT/10 · Feb 7, 2007

On the other hand, add a SC and the car becomes much more work. It doesn't _have_ to be if you go with a mild set-up... but 95% of us all want more power... and then things start to break.

I'm in the 5% category. No desire to be the heaviest hitter or drag guy.

5 pound Roe/no water ****, self installed, self tuned(I am not a mechanic). 9,000 trouble free miles the first year--last year. Several other bolt on mods:
3:45 Unitrax rear end, Fidanza flywheel,Belanger headers/exhaust. I will be adding roller rockers in a month or so. Completely satisfied with the basic 5 pounder. For the driving I do, the twin screw blower is the right choice. Big torque down low---no need to wind the engine to the top. As a matter of fact, I ran a track event last year in 4th gear all the way around. Never hit a corner I couldn't break the back end loose tracking out of. Makes for a smooth session and keeps the RPMs down. The car barely broke a sweat.

Steve

DAMN YANKEE · Feb 7, 2007

I am right there with Steve....watch the pain-in-the a$s "tipping point".
For me, I wanted a system that could, if I wanted to, go ALL the way back to stock.

Aside from a great project (you CAN do this), great driveability, great performance, you get this when you open the hood.

You must be registered for see images

Be sure and let us know what you end up doing.

.

kwkshift · Feb 7, 2007

I was going to go the Roe supercharger route, but a deal came along that I couldn't pass up for an RSI 510 stroker engine. It's basically their "750 unlimited" package. It does have it's quirks with the huge cam and trying to tune it with the VEC2, but I finally got it pretty much ironed out. The car makes right at 600 rwhp/ tq and lives on 91 gas. Maintenance is like a stock Viper, I just keep track of the fluids and plugs and it keeps on going! The car definately has a nasty streak, now. When I had the Pilots on, it was downright dangerous. Now with the Hoosiers on, it makes the power much more usable. The car runs mid-10's in the mid 13x's. It's fun, but extremely expensive compared to a Roe. In my opinion, the Roe blower is the best bang-for-the-buck out there for these cars.

jwbond · Feb 7, 2007

Stock motor 488, stock 708 cam, stock compression, Stryker Heads + Headers + tune = 540 RWHP. Your still looking at 11K even if you do all the wrenching yourself. Great way to go with stock reliability. My guess is that this combo would be a close race with the '08 Viper.

All I am missing is the Stryker Heads and you think I will add ~100rwhp (dynoed at 443rwhp on my 96 gts) w/ a tune? Sounds like a stretch...or is this truly possible?

Casey · Feb 7, 2007

Twin Turbos from a Tuner is the way to go. Nothing like it! :2tu:

Joseph Dell · Feb 7, 2007

Stock motor 488, stock 708 cam, stock compression, Stryker Heads + Headers + tune = 540 RWHP. Your still looking at 11K even if you do all the wrenching yourself. Great way to go with stock reliability. My guess is that this combo would be a close race with the '08 Viper.

Click to expand...

All I am missing is the Stryker Heads and you think I will add ~100rwhp (dynoed at 443rwhp on my 96 gts) w/ a tune? Sounds like a stretch...or is this truly possible?

No. the 708 cam isn't a great match for the stryker heads. it isn't bad, but it isn't great. JM has a matched cam he likes to recommend. see his dyno sheet w/ that cam and now you are talking over 600rwhp. Close to 700, actually. http://jmcylinderheads.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/test4_dynograph.gif that's more like it!

JD

stay NA or bolt on a SC?

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