How would an RT do against a GTS???

ZEUS · Jun 10, 2007

What is the weight differential of the 2 cars in a given year? With the roof off the RT?

And does aerodynamics help the GTS a whole lot in the quarter mile....how do they compare in the 1/4?

always wondered. :dunno:

Asp Man · Jun 10, 2007

Not sure what the roof weighs, got to be under a hundred pounds. (correct me on this)GTS wins by small amount. With roof on R/T, GTS is lighter by about 150lbs. (correct me on this)
Don't think aero advantage is much in a 1/4 race, mabye a small amount on the top end of the quarter giving it a few mph.
If we're talking about '97 up R/T, it's going to come down to driver ability. On paper the GTS has some slight advantages, if the driver can maximize them is the question.
All things equal: tires, driver, state of tune, fuel, all other variables, GTS wins.

SylvanSRT · Jun 10, 2007

Top does not weigh that much on an RT, but an RT is lighter than a GTS even with the top on. The Fastest 1/4 mile times in stock gen 2 cars have been set by RT-10's(and gen I cars considering they were all RT's). The aerodaynic factor does not become much of an issue till you get above 130-140 mph

ZEUS · Jun 10, 2007

Asp thinks rt weighs in at 150 pounds more, Sylvan thinks RT is lighter even with roof.
Does anyone have true numbers?

2000_Black_RT10 · Jun 10, 2007

Glass (window glass) is heavier than composites, so the rear hatch on a GTS is a disadvantage regarding weight. An open top RT/10 is going to have a significant disadvantage in aerodynamics, lot's of turbulance in airflow. I'd vote the top on a RT/10 would be quicker even though the GTS would be more aerodynamic to high speed, but it's the 1/4 mile race in dispute.

It's sort of like the 68 Hemi Barracuda vs. the 68 Hemi Dart question, to toss in a twist, the Barracuda with a large rear window has better rear weight transfer off the line. Therefore it's not always weight which determines the faster car in a 1/4 mile race.

Tom / ZEUS - Here's my old Barracuda btw.. this Lil' beast weighed just over 3000 lbs, w/a 572 c.i. / 9.4L Hemi, normally aspirated at 800 hp, it would take one heck of a Viper to take it in the 1/4 mile. Yet forget about top speed, braking or going around corners.. that's Viper territory.

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Here's a goofing off video..

http://www.wincom.net/mnllehti/Michigan_Cruise_Night_Back_Parking_Lot_WMV.wmv

Randy · Jun 10, 2007

Asp Man said:
Not sure what the roof weighs, got to be under a hundred pounds. (correct me on this)GTS wins by small amount. With roof on R/T, GTS is lighter by about 150lbs. (correct me on this).

Actually, thats backwards. RT is lighter (evidently something weighs more, probably the glass) and is almost always faster, given the same year and driver.

Asp Man said:
Don't think aero advantage is much in a 1/4 race, mabye a small amount on the top end of the quarter giving it a few mph.

Actually, the aero difference is significant on the top end, with the GTS getting around 10 to 15 mph higher top end, last I heard.

Asp Man said:
If we're talking about '97 up R/T, it's going to come down to driver ability. On paper the GTS has some slight advantages, if the driver can maximize them is the question.
All things equal: tires, driver, state of tune, fuel, all other variables, GTS wins.

Which is pretty much backwards.

PatentLaw · Jun 10, 2007

For best all around performance, the GTS platform is proven. The reason it was used by these guys.....

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case closed.

SylvanSRT · Jun 11, 2007

road racing especially high speed stuff like LeMans and Daytona the aerodynamics and added chassis stiffness, and closed cockpit(weather protection) are a huge factor. Lets not forget that the RT ran in LeMans aslo before the GTS existed.

Back to the orginal ? here

RT's are lighter than a GTS

Stock for stock in the same year an RTshould be quicker in the 1/4 mile

the aerodynamic advantage that the GTS have will not make itself appearent till speeds above 140+ from everything i have been told, not affecting either in stock form in the 1/4 mile.(a Texas mile or Maxton or other high speed trial would probably shift the advantage to the GTS)

2000_Black_RT10 · Jun 11, 2007

Lemans, etc.. definitely the GTS, it has a stiffer body, the RT/10 top had a ridge at the top of the windshield with a hard top, GTS with less drag because of the sloped rear glass.

1/4 mile race, it's hard to say which is better in stock form.. yet I'm leaning a bit towards the RT/10, and that's a very small margin..

A similar 1/4 mile example is the notchback fox body Mustang vs. the hatchback.

All I know is that if I were going to get groceries, I would prefer the GTS with the hatchback, so yes it does perform better in the all around sense. LOL (biased humor implied).

Asp Man · Jun 11, 2007

Randy said:
Actually, thats backwards. RT is lighter (evidently something weighs more, probably the glass) and is almost always faster, given the same year and driver.

Actually, the aero difference is significant on the top end, with the GTS getting around 10 to 15 mph higher top end, last I heard.

Which is pretty much backwards.

Hmm. Don't think there'd be 10 to 15 mph diff in the 1/4, which is what we're talking about here.
R/T:3445lbs, GTS: 3375, only 70lbs diff, but R/T is heavier.

handyman_321 · Jun 11, 2007

It's all up to driver and tires.. and my car has neither...lol

but before long it will have both well. at least some new tires!!!

BOMBOVIPER93 · Jun 11, 2007

The owners manual on my 1993 list the vehicle weight at 3250 lbs!!!!

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse · Jun 11, 2007

Fastest time recorded by a Gen II was done at Englishtown, at 11.7 , in a 2000 RT10.

Sure the New Jersey guys/gals can verify that, but with that said it appeared on most tracks the cars were dead even on the strip. On a road course it was a different matter , as most saw a distinct advantage top speed wise, etc. due to the superior aerodynamics and rigidity --- easy to notice if you ran Viper Days.

The end result is they are very close and one should get the style they like the best.

Heck, Nancy Stein even won the Super Modified Class in Viper Days, and she is in an RT10.

Paul Hawker · Jun 11, 2007

For relatively stock cars, even up, I would not expect a 1/10 or even 1 mpg difference between the two body styles in the 1/4. (Agree with Pemberton the edge usually goes to the GTS)

For road racing, the GTS reels in the RT/10 quite easily as speeds go over 120 mph.

Knight Viper · Jun 12, 2007

I've seen a stock RT/10 (02) driven by Wanted (Tom) run 11.55 121. I haven't seen a GTS do that yet, but were still looking.

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse · Jun 12, 2007

Cool, Wanted is a good guy,and if he ran that I hope he kept the slip. If the car is bone stock that would legitimize what many would say is the fastest stock Gen II time ever.

And a Creampuff at that, ha. Goes to show the stories of more hp from the Plant in 1999 concerning the motor change are true.

SoCal Rebell · Jun 12, 2007

High speed the GTS puts a better hole through the air with a .36 drag coefficient compared to the aero brick of a RT/10 at .52

GTS wins from a 100 mph roll

Although my 3.55 geared full exhaust modified RT pulled a stock GTS of the same year to 170

GR8_ASP · Jun 12, 2007

Higher Cd no doubt. Though I thought it was around .45 top on. But take into consideration a slightly smaller frontal area as well.

But we all know the RT/10 wins as you can take the roof off after the race and enjoy the day.

Zan186 · Jun 12, 2007

The GTS actually has a slight edge in the 1/4 mile due to a number of factors.
First and foremost where the weight is located drastically influences a vehicle's launch. Lighter is usually associated with quicker, but also where the weight is located also can help a vehicle to launch. More weight over the rear wheels is going to mean less wheel spin. GTS has more weight over the rear wheels than the RT/10.
Aerodynamic's come into play over 30mph and escalates as speed increases. Put your hand outside your window at 55mph and just feel how much force you have to overcome to keep it in place.

ZEUS · Jun 12, 2007

Weight transfer over rears, now that's a good answer.
I didn't mean this to be a GTS guys RT guys pride thing.

But I still want the real weight determined. Asp believes the GTS is lighter, Bombo list his '93 at 3250lbs (w/ soft top) out of the owners manual. What does the GTS (say '97) manual read?

Russ M · Jun 12, 2007

RT is lighter than a GTS hands down, factory specs is 3380 for the RT and 3445 for GTS.

Far as 1/4 mile time goes its a toss up, unless we are talking both very good drivers in which case the RT would win because its lighter.

Snakester · Jun 12, 2007

Asp Man said:
Hmm. Don't think there'd be 10 to 15 mph diff in the 1/4, which is what we're talking about here.
R/T:3445lbs, GTS: 3375, only 70lbs diff, but R/T is heavier.

You have those numbers reversed. The R/T10 weighs 3380lbs, and the GTS is 3450lbs.
Maybe you are thinking about the ACR Viper, which weighs about 80lbs less than the regular GTS, but only when the convenience package is not selected (A/C, radio, delete etc..)

You can see the same thing with the SRT-10 convertible, being about 65lbs lighter than the SRT-10 Coupe.

Realistically it doesn't make nearly as much difference as several other factors like car and track prep, driver's skill, weather, etc.. But so far the quickest and fastest 1/4 mile times have been with R/T10 Vipers, but the GTS is just a couple tenths orf a second behind, with a comparable trap speed. At higher speeds (above 120MPH) the GTS' better aerodynamics gives it an edge and top speed is better.

I haven't run the 1/4 mile with my top off because of track rules, but before mods I was trapping 119MPH, which is close to most stock GTS'. Earlier GTS' did have more power though because of a more agressive cam even though they are rated the same as the later creampuffs.

Cobraken · Jun 13, 2007

For cryin out loud. Does anyone really believe the "factory specs"? My remembrance is that inspite of the running changes over the years the weight specs never changed in the brochures & owner's manuals. Test articles just mimiced the "specs" Dodge told them. Who has weighed their car? I'll bet there is more than 100 lbs weight difference from lightest to heaviest in the readers of this post.

SEASNAKE · Jun 18, 2007

I weighed my car (01 RT) for grins at a Viper Days event. It was 3598 with me (200lb) in it and the hard top on. I thought the GEN 1 RTs were heavier...Engine changes, manifold changes, frame etc.

ZEUS · Jun 19, 2007

Consensus has the gts heavier by about 70lbs. So, I was thinking about the weight argument in favour of a gts because of "weight transfer" of the heavier hatch/glass off the line. If that's important couldn't I better that by adding 70lbs of sandbags to my rt's trunk too? Just wondering.....

Tom F&L GoR · Jun 20, 2007

Haven't seen a GTS win the NY/CT vs NJ autocross yet.... only RT/10s, and old ones at that.

How would an RT do against a GTS???

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