If you were Cerebus, what would you do with the Viper?

Sales slowe a little for the Viper, 06's sat around. I really dont know why. There are low production numbers and plenty of us who want one. I guess this year will really tell about sales, whhen we see how quickly the 08's sell out or if any sit around.

There was talk to kill the Viper, talk of traction control, some want Nav, or traction control. Some want back up camera's or sensors. Yet no one wants it to be a Vette. Purist's beat their chest and say no traction control and get rid of ABS. You can take the A/C out too, its supposed to be a street driven race car. I love the Viper and definatley dont want it to be a Vette or have a cheaper version ala C6/Z06. But face it the Z06 is nice, has alot of creature comforts, nav ,heads up display, seat heaters, home link for gargae doors,etc etc. Yet it can be taken to the trrack and lets face it, it will hang with the Viper.

So would you rather see the Viper more daily driver capable if it meant better sales and keeping it around, or would you keep it raw and mean like it is. Bump the price and do more, do less and lower the price or keep about where it is. What would you add or not add. Maybe refine the interior to look more unique/nicer, more creature comforts. Cupholders ??
So as a business decision and not a emotional decision, what would you do to keep the Viper alive, strong and on top of the Vette boys, maybe even knock a few exotics down the chain. Yet unique, and where you dont see one on every corner. Also profitable. Would do you think Cerebus needs to do or WILL do, whether you like it or not.

This is going to be interesting.

Personally, and this is just me!, I'd like to see some of the styling reflect more of the Gen I/GenII models. I think they are rather appealing. Not taking anything away from the Gen III since I have one, but I feel the Gen I/II have more of a raw look to them, which is why I felt an attraction to the Vipers in the first place. However, should that not be the route Cerebus even considers, which I doubt they would, I'm just gonna have to add a GenI or II to the stable.

If Dodge keeps the car in it's current configuration, that is a Gas Guzzling V10, lack of creature comforts, tall people really don't fit in it, High Price then it will continue to appeal to 1500 to 2500 people a year.

So as long as they can make money at those quanties I would think Dodge would continue on with the Viper since it is such a great Halo car for the brand.

If they want to sell a lot more Vipers it has to become a different car which may/may not appeal to the current Viper Fans.

I bought my Viper(s) after owning 4 corvettes and just wanted something different and the Viper appealed to what I was looking for, awsome power, style, and just fun to drive.

In this world of $95 a barrel oil prices, Mortages being foreclosed by the thousands, and growing food prices it will be hard to sell a $80K+ car. Besides a Viper isn't for everyone. All the fancy add on bells and whistles will just increase the price. Leave the bells and whistles to the Corvette (everybody got one of them) and keep the Viper a street/race car.

PS: Don't drop the A/C it get's hotter than Hell here in Louisiana during the summer.

Gen1- Viper Birth of a Legend.

Keep the Viper of course...no cupholders (sorry Dave/Mike)...no need for them at those speeds! Keep the a/c--agreed. Make them more the GTS style--for sure! If they can continue to sell to our unique market/niche, then keep the car the same...raw power for a raw beast. ~juli

The one thing I am not crazy about, with regards to the Viper, is the uncertainty of its future. The corvette will never go away but with Chrysler being as unstable as it is, we never know what is going to happen with the Viper. In my opinion, the Viper gives Chrysler something to be proud of. This car gives pride to the name and without it, their image will sink like a rock.

I think all cars must have some sort of traction control by 2011 model year, per federal law.

Win the 2008 Le Mans with it.

Show the world Cerebus means to improve Chrysler Corp.

If I was the CEO Cerberus, I'd do the following:

1) Do plenty of limited edition Vipers all built the same so that costs and build are a known quantity and easily repetitive. So in a year, we might only produce 1500 - 3500 cars, but the majority of those are editions of 100, such as the VCA edition, editions honoring Chrysler specific heroes of yesteryear. The Prowler had a "Bow-Tie" and "Woodward" edition, there isn't a reason why the Viper can't do the same.

2) As a "halo" car, the Viper should, but doesn't need to make a lot of money, but not lose money. I would also do as Chrysler already did and offer factory upgrades in the interior, or power parts that are not loss-leaders, but high margin items. Most Viper buyers are not scraping their last $10 together to buy a Viper, and most would buy a few upgrades if they were available.....I figure for most buyers, the extra $5k or $8k to them would make the Viper more "personal" to their tastes and a reflection of their success.

3) I would do as Chrysler has already started to do and share as many SRT parts in the engine and suspension as possible. So far only pistions are shared, but further architectures could include block casting similarities (modular v6, v8, v10 blocks in aluminum, sleeved in iron for the upper-end engine in many SRT models)

4) I would also keep the Viper a very "raw" car, keep out the expensive traction control systems, accident avoidance systems, etc. and market the car as a factory racer! I think Viper marketing could also use a little revising, they should have Vipers at car shows as an American dream car, so that it's in the face of generations of car buyers.

That's about all I can think of at the moment.

Regards,
Aaron

I read the details of the contract agreement and it appeared that Cerberus is closing the plant and Viper production at the end of this product cycle. They did not indicate the exact year, but my guess would be 3-4 years.

Surprised nobody in the Viper community picked up on this earlier.

kmg99 said:

I read the details of the contract agreement and it appeared that Cerberus is closing the plant and Viper production at the end of this product cycle. They did not indicate the exact year, but my guess would be 3-4 years.

Surprised nobody in the Viper community picked up on this earlier.

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It was noted and discussed in some earlier threads -- including the possibility of Saleen taking over all production ...

I for one would like to see the Vert share the same rear end as the Coupe. Maybe wider and more agressive like Jeff Lemke's design.

I believe its only a mtter of time beofre we see traction control. Race cars use it, motorcycles use it in racing. And there have started to be more lawsuits involving NO traction control. I just reard of a widowed wife who sued for her husbands death at a track event. They even sued Porsche for not putting TC in the Carrera GT, which was marketed as a race car for the street.

I would like to seea btter sound system or Nav. Dont need much else. I really think style and design/iniqueness are key. I love the look when people see the Viper pull up, we need to keep it that way.

Name me a Dodge car that still exists from the 1992 Dodge lineup.........Viper is the only one! Many cars have come and gone in the Dodge lineup, but the Viper is still there. Currently, when you think Chevy, you think Corvette. When you think Ford, you think Mustang. What Dodge will you think of if the Viper goes away? Stealth? Crossfire? Prowler? Nope! It would be a big marketing no-no to scrap the Viper IMO.

As far as the car goes, IMO they have gone away from the "radical" styling of the Gen I and II and gotten more mainstream with the Gen III. I would go back to "radical" and continue pushing the performance boundaries of the car, while keeping the current "creature comforts" - A/C, radio, power doors and locks, etc and nothing else.

Even though I think the Corvette is a much better car all around, I bought my Gen II Viper in June because of the ways it is NOT a Corvette. I wanted a low volume "exotic" production car similar to a 60's muscle car than could actually turn and had some of today's technology. The Viper is unique from the Corvettes, Porsche's, Lambo's, and Ferrari's out there because of it's "rawness".

However, I think Cerebus will cancel it after the Gen 3.5 is done....

MikeR said:

I believe its only a mtter of time beofre we see traction control. Race cars use it, motorcycles use it in racing. And there have started to be more lawsuits involving NO traction control. I just reard of a widowed wife who sued for her husbands death at a track event. They even sued Porsche for not putting TC in the Carrera GT, which was marketed as a race car for the street.

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I really get agrivated to NO END about BULLSH!T like this .. idiotic ***** with no sense of reality whatsoever goes to track, KNOWS FULLY WELL (or does not WANT to know which is even worse) what is and what is not on his vehicle, crashes and then the bastard wife SUES Porsche for a lack of stuff that they knew FULLY WELL was not on it.. "Hey I'm still a little kid and lost something very dear to me but I prefer to be stupid so let's go blame someone else".....
Bunch of freaking lowlifes, GET A BRAIN ! A$$holes like these only f*ck up stuff that is enjoyed by so many people, I HATE IT.. they could definately be one of the causes that will eventually end the horsepower wars

Some of you really like the styling of the Gens I/II. It looked pretty good to me but not enough to sign the bottom line. Then the 2003 comes out and it hits me hard between the eyes. So obviously I think the current styling is best. I think the AC Cobra concept plus SOME creature comforts like A/C, power locks & windows, and ergonomic seats is a sound one for this car (I'll lay off the cruise control issue). The heat management and fishtailing are my issues and seems to have been dealt with on the 2008s. I think the 2008s are fine the way they are; I hope they do well this year otherwise Cerebrus will pull the plug quickly.

Another factor could be what Chevrolet does with the corvette. Much like what Reagan's presidency did to Communist Russia, Cerebus might not be willing or able to spend what it takes to top Chevy, when the ZR1 arrives. A second place Viper is not a Viper.

I think the current car is just fine. The only thing I would do differently is make the car - ergo brand, more visible vis-a-vis more visiblity at car shows and race tracks.

It's not unusual for someone to admire a particular car, but actually purchase another model from the same brand. Someone with a family might not actually purchase a Viper, but still purchase a Chrysler or Dodge after admiring a Viper.

The old adage - 'Race on Sunday, buy on Monday' is still somewhat applicable.

A feature race - cruise control, paddle shifter etc. isn't likely to add significantly to Viper sales, but performance will. Look at the interest in the '08 vs. '06 models, wherein the primary difference is performance oriented, makes that argument. I don't think many owners would trade in their earlier models for an '08 if it featured cruise control, paddle shifters, and other accessories, it is POWER and handling that appeals to us.

As far as options, yes to the extent they can be added at reasonable cost to the company. The stripes added at Prefix are a good example. I also think some of us would pay extra for things like leather upholstry, more attractive interior appointments etc. Especially if they could be included in the price of the car, and special ordered. It's much easier to indicate you want a car of a particular color, and interior trim, than to purchase the car and then send it to a specialty shop where it undergoes an upgrade of uncertain quality, at high cost & inconvenience (I am speculating here, I haven't actually gone down that path).

Whether Prefix, Venzano or whoever did the work, the quality would be assured, the cost would be buried in the cost of the car, and those who would like to compare their Viper to upscale Italian or German brands wouldn't need to compare a spartan plastic interior to a classy leather one.

For those who prefer the raw character, the car would be left as-is.

In my opinion, most Viper owners like to stand out of the crowd, that's why we like a car of this type. I think most Viper owners would like to own a unique car, therefore allowing us to 'special order' particular combinations is attractive. It's not necessary for the things we order to actually be added at CAP, we just want them.

Regards,
Mike Dolan

...a V6, a 3rd door for the kids and a few more cup holders....let it appeal to the masses....

...seriously, I aways thought color selection was the biggest problem in the past....seems like that may be improved...

Edmunds thinks the Viper is doomed.


Conner Ave., Detroit
Currently producing: Viper SRT and its hand-built, 8.4-liter V-10
UAW workers: 115
Outlook:
The Viper's almost surely dead -- the company wants to close this low-volume operation, and in the new

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labor agreement would not commit to any new product for Conner Ave.
We think Chrysler may be waffling about the Viper because it knows this is one of its few products that gets enthusiast blood flowing, so there could be reluctance to confirm its demise.
But aside from its ability to capture magazine covers -- an attribute creator Bob Lutz insisted was worth the cost of developing and building it -- the Viper's a money loser. It's unlikely the right-brain Wall Streeters at Cerberus will let emotion prevail in the decision whether to keep the Viper nameplate alive; either way, it appears this nifty operation is marked for termination.
Grade: F

As far as marketability is concerned, there is one thing the Corvette has that the Viper does not, and that thing is the absolute key to the success or demise of the respective models. The golden ticket? Tiered pricing.

If someone wants to buy a run-of-the-mill Corvette, they can pony up $49K or $54K for the coupe or convertible, respectively. At the end of the day, that number is very manageable for the average joe. Transversely, if someone wants to purchase a new Viper, they do not have a run-of-the-mill version to purchase. Throw out all of the creature comforts and all of the driveability factors, at the end of the day, if Chevrolet offered the Z06 as the only Vette (priced at $80K), the championed Vette would be gone within a matter of years.

Perhaps it would be controversial amongst enthusiasts, but the easiest (and perhaps the only) way to maintain the Viper would be to offer a base model for around the base model price of a Vette, while maintaining a special edition, 600HP Viper for those who can afford it.

What would I do if I were in charge? I would offer a standard V8 version of the Viper, producing approximately 425 HP for around $50K, and I would maintain the 600+HP V10 Viper as a special package available for purchase at the current price.

My $.02

TCz, what would you do about security, to prevent the slew of us Viper faithful, from assassinating you?

Rollin4 said:

In this world of $95 a barrel oil prices, Mortages being foreclosed by the thousands, and growing food prices it will be hard to sell a $80K+ car. ..

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No offense, but this flies in the face of the market, where they sell over 2000 300k+ land yachts a year (mayback/bentley/rolls), and god knows how many $1MM plus cars, and forget about 300k+ exotics. Point is, no matter what, there will always be a market for this car, albeit a small one, I would be surprised if any decent percentage of our membership 1) are getting our houses foreclosed on 2) have trouble paying for food and 3) really give a crap about $4 gas prices. This is elitist as heck but look at the reality of who we're talking about (didn't Dodge do a survey 5 years back, and the average income was ~200k, and like 98% made over 100k?)

That said, I'm not in the car business, but I do help banks make these decisions everyday, and unfortunately it comes down to toasters. I'd put the viper on hold, and bring back something like the k car (not as a viper replacement of course, and with the Dodge irrereverance). I hate it, think it *****, but the question was what would I do for my shareholders, and you have to stop the hemorraging. IF they put value in a halo car, then build the MTSR4 or whatever the heck that awesome car was called for $1mm, (they have the plans) and build 100 a year. They will sell, make money, trounce lemans (if they allow it in), and give them a halo car that even the vette rags will praise.

Or rebadge the viper as this $1mm car, and keep it alive, where only 100 of us get one over the next 2 years, who wouldn't want a quad turbo, mid engine, 1000hp car... That would be a viper I'd sell 2 of mine for (and save my pennies). Unfortunately, Edmunds is a conservative, k-car loving enterprise, but I think they're right. Just my opinion, this is clearly an opinion thread.

Mike Dolan said:

I think the current car is just fine. The only thing I would do differently is make the car - ergo brand, more visible vis-a-vis more visiblity at car shows and race tracks.
... The old adage - 'Race on Sunday, buy on Monday' is still somewhat applicable.

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That nails it. Case closed.

(And as far as the idea of a cheaper watered-down Viper with a V8 ... nope, won't work. Thankfully, the Viper has way too much in the way of aggressive looks, unlike the bland Corvette. The Viper is a halo car. period. It shouldn't be Dodge's goal to sell a bunch more of them -- that the role of the other, cheaper models they offer -- however, they do need to evolve away from their ram/truck image, so that the Viper image then carries more meaning for the company.)

If I was CEO of Cerebus here is what I would do with the Viper.


1.) Keep Volume the same.

2.) Don't make money on a Halo car, but break even.

3.) Develope a TT-V10, it would be cake to deliver more power when needed 800hp,1000hp,1200hp...no prob.

4.) Keep the car RAW. It's a race car for the street, not a street car for the race track. BRING BACK THE ACR!

5.) Bring **** back to the Viper ala, GenII GTS

6.) Win Lemans....3 years in a row.

7.) Show the car for what it is, a part of that "American Dream".

Easy question.....

Nothing. I have tooling paid for, a top notch production car that can run rings around other cars. Daimler just dumped money into it (free). I only have 100 or so workers building the dang thing, so therefore I have little overhead. If I have to, I can sub the work out to others.

I sell so few, it really does not hurt my corporate fuel average. It brings people into the showroom. I keep it going, unchanged, except for color changes, etc. Milk the car for all it is worth.

The Viper is a Viper because it's different, bold, 'HAND BUILT' (not a production car with all the problems that a Vette has.......electronics, bad orange peel paint, poor fit and finish, etc. My asso. has a new Vette.....), and the Viper has a "bad a$$ car" reputation. I won't go into the Gen I & II "debate", that's in the eye of the beholder......had Gen I, totally tricked out, and now a Gen III (S/C'd, Belanger headers, exhaust, Sidewinder Wheels, 3:55 gears, 05 Commemorative Edition) and this car gets just as many looks as the Gen I, and people who have known me for the last 7 years of viper ownership say they like the Gen III much better.....again, in the eyes of the beholder. Was recently in a car show and a 97 B/W GTS was in my class.....and MORE people looked at the Gen III than the GTS.......it had it's lookers, however, they pulled over more toward the Gen III. They think that the Gen III is a "sexier" car than the Gen I or II. There are a lot of changes at Chrysler, and I don't believe for one minute they will drop the Viper.......it is NOT a money loser, it does pay for itself.....not like some of the new models that just didn't sell (Aspen, Stratus, Nitro)....they need the "little" car that doesn't use a lot of fuel, and a prius like vehicle to compete. If they would have brought out the Charger in a 2 door model, they would have sold 5 X as many......but they didn't listen....now the Challenger is coming out and highly anticipated.....just hope it isn't too late with the younger crowd who may not want to pony up for a gas user........we will just have to wait and see. Cost cutting, job layoffs, and a learner, hopefully meaner car line that is appealing to the masses, and Chrysler will somehow thrive in the future. I own a 300C, and PT Cruiser (daily driver), along with the Viper. I am obviously brand loyal....and will continue to be brand loyal.

As some mentioned, I do think we need better marketing and more coverage. Even though every 08 may be sold before their made, there are still plenty of race fans who have no idea that the 08 is coming out with 600 hp. Some have no idea there was no 07 model, beause the viper often just isnt in the press. Maybe cause Chevy pays off all the magazine writers. But like what was said, win on Sunday,sell on Monday. Id like to see more of that.
I still remeber the old days of hearing the great treatment from Dodge to Viper owners when they ran Lemans. Now fast forward to no Dodge in Lemans ,no fun. I remember last year going to Laguna Seca and for the first time I had to park the Viper in the dirt lot. Lemans and Speed GT were racing on that weekend. Chevy held a huge owners event for the vette guys. They had the huged paved section for reserved Vette parking/parties. All the Vettes did a parade lap. I thought it was really cool and neat to see the manufacturer set up all of that. I was just sad to see it was Chevrolet and not Dodge.

I think we need to be a force again in racing, we need to get a Viper as a Pace car again.

They can also stop playing these leap frog games with Chevy. Just Kill them and be done with it. C'mon Chevy even handicaps themselves with a self imposed LEV status on all the cars they sell. Just turbo the damn thing and be done with it.

Excuse my ignorance but does Lemans have the same handicaps as SCCA racing does? If so, how can a Viper win with 300 extra pounds of weight added to it, while having the intake choked by 40%?

MikeR said:

So as a business decision and not a emotional decision,

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The Viper began its life purely on an emotional decision. It is the business decisions that are watering it down which interestingly coincide with latest lackluster sales and image.

My preference now would be to lose weight and change the current priorites direction back towards tracking rather than adding features that amount to turning the Viper into Covette's cousin.