who let dodge install their comp coup cam?

Twister · Dec 22, 2007

Hi guys..

Im about to let dodge install a comp coupe cam on my 2003 SRT10...

But some people are telling me that the cam HAS to be degreed or it wont put out the promised 15-20 HP..

If you let Dodge install your comp coupe cam...Did they degree it? Or just put her in and thats it?

Id apreciate any fast responses as Im about to pull the trigger on wednesday. But dont wanna spend the $2100 if the jobs not done right...

Of course all the dodge mechanics are on holiday vacation so I cant ask them this question till Wednesday. And Id like to have my purchasing decision made prior to then..THANKS

Y2K5SRT · Dec 22, 2007

Big difference between "Dodge" and "Dodge dealer". "Dodge" implies the manufacturer whereas the dealership is free to put in whatever they want - but only Mopar parts will retain the factory warranty. And personally, I doubt very many Dodge dealers outside of a chosen few have ever installed a Comp Coupe cam in an SRT10. I suspect there are less than 100 Vipers out there with them - besides the Comp Coupes of course.

That said, I have a Comp Coupe cam in my 2005 and I don't believe there is any "degreeing" done on it. It is my understanding that it is the Gen II 708 cam with extra oil ports drilled. Arrow Racing would be a great resource for the info...

Viperless · Dec 22, 2007

$2100 for 15-20 hp??

B767DRIVER · Dec 22, 2007

Twister, Read this thread and see what 05Viper has to say. He had the complete Moper Race package installed and is not happy with the results vs. money spent. The package includes the cam that you are going to install, new pcm, and exhaust.

http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...haust-race-engine-controller.html#post2392048

Twister · Dec 23, 2007

Heres the thing.....

These guys dynoed 455ish with the cam ect...

But what were the stock dynoes????

Some guys dyno 430 rwhp stock..Some 460 rwhp bone stock...

these guys could have EASILY been 435 rwhp bone stock and picked up 20 rwhp..Or they were 460 rwhp bone stock and lost 5 rwhp..Well never know.. ( but 440 rwhp stock is a good guess...

I beleave the headers are worth next to nonthing..As well i beleave the tune is worth next to nonthing.But the 708 cam ( CC cam) is defiently worth more than the factory cam..

Ill find a list I made of bone stock times shortly

Twister · Dec 23, 2007

They are in the order that I found them on Viper alley and then VCA......

-Import Image...456/518

-FiskeGTS..........455/481 STD

-Tito..................468/493

-Kansas............452/503 SAE

-ViperSRT..........445/480

-Vmotorsports...430/455

-Cory.................459/484

-Larry................447/476

-Tim Sutherland.455/484 SAE

-Dan sutherland.441/472 SAE

-Anthony Boutt..441/457 SAE

-Mike and Julie...425???

-Joseph Dell customer...452/490 SAE

-Ooomph............449/489

-ViperX...............450/490

-Viperbilliam.......425/480

-Bandit118th.....451/492

-Valantine Viper.442/482

-BlackSRTCoupe.457/481 SAE

-Ulllose..............438??? SAE

-BobK................434/465

-GR8ASP...........445???

-1TONY1...........437/482

-Fadi.................437/475

-ViperNM..........430/475

-Y2K5SRT.........464/504

-VNMOUS.........434???

-SRT10DYNODAY.459
...........................447
...........................452
...........................464
...........................435
...........................436
...........................420
...........................436

-KaiSRT10...........439/470

-Viper Ruselli......433/468

-PMBNY..............437/504

-DSR207............423???

-SRT10LEN........420/510

-DawgZsnake...437/466 SAE

-Cajun Viper.....447/490

-John Myrick.....445/483

-Frank03SR......440/487

-SirFang...........418???

If it dosent say SAE or STD then the info was not available...

Seemed like the SRT10's are a mixed bag...Some are 420's-430's...Some are 450's-460's...

Thats a 40 rwhp differance...Im sure it's mostly dyno to dyno..But Id also have to think that the HUGE 505 ci V10 has a lot to do with it...

If the 5.7 litre LS1's can dyno 290-315...( 25rwhp diff from LS1 to LS1)Then I could see our 8.3's having an even larger range of 40 rwhp from SRT10 to SRT10. (425-465)
__________________
2003 SRT10
-Arrow rebuild
-1.7 roller rockers
-KN filters............ 459 rwhp and 492 rwt SAE
-no cats and no mufflers...???rwhp ???rwt

-bone stock 99 rt10 410 rwhp/465 rwt
-smooth tubes and no cats 428 rwhp/473 rwt
-harland sharp 1.7 roller rockers 440 rwhp/482 rwt
-AEM tune 445 rwhp/497 rwt
*all runs on the same dyno jet and SAE corrected*
-INSTALLED BY GUS// TUNED BY BLAKE-

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July 29th, 2007, 09:11 AM #2
Tornado
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Rep Power: 2 TWENTY FIVE 440 OR HIGHER

TWENTY 439 OR LOWER

So with these results low 440's seems to be the average
__________________

Like I said...440 rwhp is the average for bone stock..So these guys with the CC cam can take heart in the fact that they were atleaste 15 rwhp above average..

Still not great by any means..But in conjunction with the basic bolt ons this will be benifical

B767DRIVER · Dec 23, 2007

Believe what you want about headers, exhaust, and PCM reflashes not producing HP. I think most people will disagree. I have the DC performance tune, Belanger headers, exhaust and K&N CAI and I dynoed at 487hp and 503tq. The two best upgrades for me were the DC tune and the headers.

REDSLED · Dec 23, 2007

$2100 for 15-20 HP, that honestly you will not even notice. Instead, put some 3.55 or 3.73 gears in and have DC Performance reflash your computer. The gears alone are a great upgrade.

SnakeEye · Dec 23, 2007

$2100 on a cam swap? I'd consider moving to a 3.33 or 3.55 gearset instead. The difference in performance you'd notice without question. Adding an X-Metal throttle body, K&N filter, and performance flash should net you the additonal ~25rwhp you're looking for too. You could do all of this for about the same money...

jpas · Dec 23, 2007

Twister said:
Hi guys..

Im about to let dodge install a comp coupe cam on my 2003 SRT10...

But some people are telling me that the cam HAS to be degreed or it wont put out the promised 15-20 HP..

If you let Dodge install your comp coupe cam...Did they degree it? Or just put her in and thats it?

Id apreciate any fast responses as Im about to pull the trigger on wednesday. But dont wanna spend the $2100 if the jobs not done right...

Of course all the dodge mechanics are on holiday vacation so I cant ask them this question till Wednesday. And Id like to have my purchasing decision made prior to then..THANKS

If you are going to spend the money to do a CAM, you should really consider doing a custom grind that is more agressive, the Comp Cam is a pretty weak upgrade. Any Cam swap should be degreed, it is not that difficult and standard practice for a performance shop (maybe not your Dodge dealer). The cam swap would take approx 5 hours to complete, so $2100 is waaaaay to high.

Twister · Dec 23, 2007

B767DRIVER said:
Believe what you want about headers, exhaust, and PCM reflashes not producing HP. I think most people will disagree. I have the DC performance tune, Belanger headers, exhaust and K&N CAI and I dynoed at 487hp and 503tq. The two best upgrades for me were the DC tune and the headers.

NO NO NO...PLEASE DONT MIS UNDERSTAND ME..I KNOW THAT BELANGER HEADERS AND A DC TUNE ARE WORTH GOOD POWER.( I PLAN ON DOING THESE AFTER THE CAM IN A FEW MONTHS) BUT I DONT THINK THE MOPAR HEADERS/AC ROBBING TUNE ARE WORTH ANYTHING

Twister · Dec 23, 2007

SnakeEye said:
$2100 on a cam swap? I'd consider moving to a 3.33 or 3.55 gearset instead. The difference in performance you'd notice without question. Adding an X-Metal throttle body, K&N filter, and performance flash should net you the additonal ~25rwhp you're looking for too. You could do all of this for about the same money...

I will be leaving the gears stock 3.07's as I will be addding a paxton in Apr08 or Apr09...

I already have KN's...roller rockers....no cats...no mufflers

And yes I do plan on adding the X metal throttle body when I install headers/DC tune

FE 065 · Dec 23, 2007

jpas said:
If you are going to spend the money to do a CAM, you should really consider doing a custom grind that is more agressive, the Comp Cam is a pretty weak upgrade. Any Cam swap should be degreed, it is not that difficult and standard practice for a performance shop (maybe not your Dodge dealer). The cam swap would take approx 5 hours to complete, so $2100 is waaaaay to high.

It'd seem so. The 708 cam originated as an EPA friendly street cam afterall. Since Twister is mostly into 1/4 mile work, an aftermarket cam appropriate to that purpose has to be a better choice doesn't it?

SylvanSRT · Dec 23, 2007

BTW ViperSRT and GR8ASP are one and the same(Username change not alter ego) and he does NOT have a CC cam on his car basically stock except for not cats and mopar exhaust oh yeah and a paxton s/c 690 rwhp and 620 rwtq.

my car has Arrow rebuild DC-pcm flash, corsa cat back(with stock cats) k & n and 456rwhp and 480rwtq

Viper Specialty · Dec 23, 2007

jpas said:
The cam swap would take approx 5 hours to complete, so $2100 is waaaaay to high.

I would REALLY like to see this done in 5 hours, let alone degreed. Sorry, not happening.

fqberful · Dec 23, 2007

Do the cam, but at the same time put a set of Greg Good heads on the thing. Those heads will make the cam work for you. And if you add S/C or TT later, the gains will be monster. The headers and mopar exhaust will help a bunch. A good flash from DC or B&G makes a big difference regardless of the other mods.

3.55's with a Quaife diff will make a load of difference also. Feels like another 80hp.

Y2K5SRT · Dec 23, 2007

And FYI, many of the dyno number you reported are in stock trim - not modified. I know mine was (464/504)...

Twister · Dec 23, 2007

Y2K5SRT said:
And FYI, many of the dyno number you reported are in stock trim - not modified. I know mine was (464/504)...

Actually ALL the numbers I reported were 100% bone stock. It took me 3 days to make that list and your numbers didnt get posted unless the numbers were from a 100% stock vehicle

Twister · Dec 23, 2007

fqberful said:
Do the cam, but at the same time put a set of Greg Good heads on the thing. Those heads will make the cam work for you. And if you add S/C or TT later, the gains will be monster. The headers and mopar exhaust will help a bunch. A good flash from DC or B&G makes a big difference regardless of the other mods.

3.55's with a Quaife diff will make a load of difference also. Feels like another 80hp.

This is basically what im doing only backwards...

Im currently around 470 rwhp with

-KN's
-roller rockers
-no cats
- no mufflers

With the CC cam ( to be installed Jan 2008, and then....DC tune...Belanger headers...Xmetal throttle body..to be installed Apr 2008

I plan on 500-515 rwhp NA

Then in Apr 2009 I plan on the paxton for 650-700 rwhp

Then Apr 2010 I plan on finishing up with my heads being ported to match the blower and 750-800 rwhp

There is no drag strip on my island. But if I do ever ferry the car to another islandto go to a drag strip I will upgrade 1/2 shafts as well a a quaffle

SO EVERYONE IM NOT DOING THE CC CAM AS SOME HUGE MOD..IT'S JUST A SMALL PEICE THAT IM HOPING WILL BE BENIFICAL TOWARDS THE BIG PICTURE...SURE I CAN GET A COMP CUSTOM GRIND...BUT I DONT WANT A CAMMED VIPER..I WANT A PAXTONED VIPER..10-15 RWHP FROM THE CC CAM NOW WILL TURN INTO 30-40 RWHP WHEN THE PAXTON GOES ON

Twister · Dec 23, 2007

btw...I CAN JUST NOT DO THE CAM OR ANYTHING RIGHT NOW AND DO THE PAXTON IN aPR 2008 THE BOSS SAID IT'S OK ( WIFE)....

But I run in a tough crowd of 1102 rwhp supras..750 rwhp ROE/****/NOS Vipers and several other 500-700 rwhp vehicles..

With my current mods I think Id probally get 650 rwhpfrom the paxton. Decent but still not great in the crowd I run with. I dont want to put the paxton on till Im sure Ill have 700 rwhp at all times ( pump gas baby)...

And give my friends 1100 rwhp Supra a run when he's on pump gas ( 7xx rwhp)

Dan Cragin · Dec 23, 2007

I agree with David on the cam change, 5 hours is not real. We remove the engine for cam changes, the heads need to come off and the timing gear needs to be modifed to degree the cam (Gen 3). There are ways to do this quicker, but it is not the type of proceedure you want to do on a high end car.

Y2K5SRT · Dec 23, 2007

DC Performance said:
I agree with David on the cam change, 5 hours is not real. We remove the engine for cam changes, the heads need to come off and the timing gear needs to be modifed to degree the cam (Gen 3). There are ways to do this quicker, but it is not the type of proceedure you want to do on a high end car.

And that, my friend, is one of THE most qualified answers you will get on these forums... :2tu:

Viper Specialty · Dec 23, 2007

DC Performance said:
I agree with David on the cam change, 5 hours is not real. We remove the engine for cam changes, the heads need to come off and the timing gear needs to be modifed to degree the cam (Gen 3). There are ways to do this quicker, but it is not the type of proceedure you want to do on a high end car.

LOL, how is it that we have the same name, yet you always call me David? hahahaha

I am going to start calling you Danielle Cragin.

jpas · Dec 24, 2007

DC Performance said:
I agree with David on the cam change, 5 hours is not real. We remove the engine for cam changes, the heads need to come off and the timing gear needs to be modifed to degree the cam (Gen 3). There are ways to do this quicker, but it is not the type of proceedure you want to do on a high end car.

Do you think most Dodge dealers pull the engine for a CAM swap?

Viper Specialty · Dec 24, 2007

jpas said:
Do you think most Dodge dealers pull the engine for a CAM swap?

Most Dodge dealers wouldnt even attempt it.

There are ways around pulling the engine of course, but even those options add both time and cost to the project. No matter how you slice it, 5 hours is NOT realistic.

steve911 · Dec 25, 2007

Why do the heads have to come off?? Isn't our motor a simple cam in block push rod motor?

The other question I have is, Mopar Performance makes an adjustable Timing gear set for our motors why wouldn't this work and simply degree in the cam as you would say on a small block chevy or Ford or Chrysler V-8?

SylvanSRT · Dec 25, 2007

i believe it has to do with the length of the cam and getting it into the block without knicking it

Viper Specialty · Dec 25, 2007

steve911 said:
Why do the heads have to come off?? Isn't our motor a simple cam in block push rod motor?

The other question I have is, Mopar Performance makes an adjustable Timing gear set for our motors why wouldn't this work and simply degree in the cam as you would say on a small block chevy or Ford or Chrysler V-8?

For a cam swap: You cannot get to the lifters without removing the heads. The lifters cannot be riding against the lobes when you slide out the cam- These engines have no valley pan. (there are ways around this with some specialized equipment and a little ingenuity)

For Degreeing a Cam: Again, you really need to be able to get to the lifters for this. (Can also find ways around this, but will require some custom-made fixturing and quite a bit of patience)

An adjustable timing set IS indeed what you need to degree the cam, much like the V-8's you refer to. The Mopar Performance part is not directly for a Gen-3 however. It "can" be used, though due to differences in gen-2 to gen-3 cam trigger, orientation, and markings, it really should be modified to gen-3 specs (we do this) before installation.

Viper Specialty · Dec 25, 2007

SylvanSRT said:
i believe it has to do with the length of the cam and getting it into the block without knicking it

mainly, yes... not enough room to get the cam right out without running into a multitude of other items in the engine compartment.

Twister · Dec 25, 2007

Thanks for all the info guys..So mopar sells this adjustable timeing chain..HMMMM..I need to see if that was included in the price

who let dodge install their comp coup cam?

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