MoparMan
Enthusiast
Listen to Chris. If you search on line in the right places you'll see that engineering work on the ZC is progressing.
No More Viper After 2009?
- Thread starter Doug Supercharged Vipers
- Start date
MoparMan
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
Bob - the info's out there. The Viper will continue on to the ZC platform in another couple of MY's
Bob - the info's out there. The Viper will continue on to the ZC platform in another couple of MY's
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
Thanks. I figured that you would step up. So, they will probably use the same drivetrane with the new platform and body - a lighter car - right?
Thanks. I figured that you would step up. So, they will probably use the same drivetrane with the new platform and body - a lighter car - right?
Lee00blacksilverGTS
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
The lack of advertising is meaningless, there has been virtually no advertising for years, so there is no change in that area. Plus the car is selling like hotcakes and they have learned the lesson of overproduction...Therefore no need to advertise.
I might add that knowing several of our National Officers as well as I do I guarantee if the car was in danger they would have us on full alert and blasting the doors down at HQ with a full blown PR attack if required. Heck, THIS group of National Officers would be negotiating to have the club buy the factory!
The lack of advertising is meaningless, there has been virtually no advertising for years, so there is no change in that area. Plus the car is selling like hotcakes and they have learned the lesson of overproduction...Therefore no need to advertise.
I might add that knowing several of our National Officers as well as I do I guarantee if the car was in danger they would have us on full alert and blasting the doors down at HQ with a full blown PR attack if required. Heck, THIS group of National Officers would be negotiating to have the club buy the factory!
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sween
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
Chrysler updated the magnum for 08 (new front facia, headlights etc.) Now there wont be one for 09...........
Chrysler updated the magnum for 08 (new front facia, headlights etc.) Now there wont be one for 09...........
Lee00blacksilverGTS
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
C'mon Sween, that cost next to nothing. Look what MoparMan said above, the ZC Platform has been approved.
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
1. If they stop production in 2009 then all our rt10's..GTS's..and SRT10's. Little by little become more race as people wreck them and worth more money on resale
2. If they keep making them then great..It's an awesome car..
3.If they took a few years off and reintroduced the viper with 700 HP and a brand new look..Would you be mad????
4. Yes they really could stop production in 2009 guys. The ACR is nonthing more than a kool paint job and some plastic add ons, with differant rims and a spoiler. Not a hole lot went into turning a 2008 coupe into a 2009 ACR...LOL
But man OH man wouldthe Viper being going out with a BANG if production stopps in 2009
1. If they stop production in 2009 then all our rt10's..GTS's..and SRT10's. Little by little become more race as people wreck them and worth more money on resale
2. If they keep making them then great..It's an awesome car..
3.If they took a few years off and reintroduced the viper with 700 HP and a brand new look..Would you be mad????
4. Yes they really could stop production in 2009 guys. The ACR is nonthing more than a kool paint job and some plastic add ons, with differant rims and a spoiler. Not a hole lot went into turning a 2008 coupe into a 2009 ACR...LOL
But man OH man wouldthe Viper being going out with a BANG if production stopps in 2009
fastmd
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
After having my own company purchased by private equity, and having dealt personally with cerberus et al., most of the info is way offbase. The only thing that matters is ROI, they are having trouble to get the rest of the notes, and they will be selling assets to bring in liquidity, as well as tapping DC for agreed financing.
Prior plans, pre-production, tooling, meetings with clubs etc. don't mean anything when you need to get the money back, and can just as well right off the losses.
I hope the viper stays, but Bill P. has an ACR order from me.
My .02
After having my own company purchased by private equity, and having dealt personally with cerberus et al., most of the info is way offbase. The only thing that matters is ROI, they are having trouble to get the rest of the notes, and they will be selling assets to bring in liquidity, as well as tapping DC for agreed financing.
Prior plans, pre-production, tooling, meetings with clubs etc. don't mean anything when you need to get the money back, and can just as well right off the losses.
I hope the viper stays, but Bill P. has an ACR order from me.
My .02
FikseGTS
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
are they selling that well? I've seen plenty of 2008 Viper pics showing them on the showroom floor and they are available at msrp on ebay from dealers.........
are they selling that well? I've seen plenty of 2008 Viper pics showing them on the showroom floor and they are available at msrp on ebay from dealers.........
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
CAFE rules make NOTHING impossible to sell...
Gas Guzzler Tax is what is placed on infringing units...
And, remember the 10% Luxury Tax a decade ago?
CAFE doesn't stop production, it just assigns penalties for violations.
-J
CAFE rules make NOTHING impossible to sell...
Gas Guzzler Tax is what is placed on infringing units...
And, remember the 10% Luxury Tax a decade ago?
CAFE doesn't stop production, it just assigns penalties for violations.
-J
Y2K5SRT
Enthusiast
And I have yet to see Matt be wrong on anything Viper yet - and usually months before most of us get any official word. Sometimes I wonder if his last name isn't really Iacocca...
Lee00blacksilverGTS
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
You need to do a lot more reading of the appropriate introduction threads if you think the ACR is nothing but a paint job, plastic add ons, rims and a spoiler. How does 1000 pounds of downforce sound? How about the ability to generate 1.5g's cornering?
You need to do a lot more reading of the appropriate introduction threads if you think the ACR is nothing but a paint job, plastic add ons, rims and a spoiler. How does 1000 pounds of downforce sound? How about the ability to generate 1.5g's cornering?
Y2K5SRT
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
I am pretty sure that when it goes to the dealer it is a sold unit as far as the manufacturer goes - they get paid by the dealer. Ever heard of a dealership sending cars back to the factory for a refund? Nope! The 2008's on the showroom floors are "sold" cars as far as the factory is concerned. The dealerships are banking on making a nice profit when they sell them to the consumer, while the factory already has when they sold it to the dealership.
If the Viper were to come to an end it wouldn't be because it was losing money. It would be because people keep starting rumors that make the company look indecisive or quoting ridiculous eBay prices so they can drive the market down enough to buy one themselves.
(waits for
to begin....) 
Then try this little tidbit: The Viper is profitable. And with the money already spent for the drivetrain development they are simply printing cash as each Viper rolls into a Reliable truck.
I am pretty sure that when it goes to the dealer it is a sold unit as far as the manufacturer goes - they get paid by the dealer. Ever heard of a dealership sending cars back to the factory for a refund? Nope! The 2008's on the showroom floors are "sold" cars as far as the factory is concerned. The dealerships are banking on making a nice profit when they sell them to the consumer, while the factory already has when they sold it to the dealership.
If the Viper were to come to an end it wouldn't be because it was losing money. It would be because people keep starting rumors that make the company look indecisive or quoting ridiculous eBay prices so they can drive the market down enough to buy one themselves.
(waits for
to begin....) DodgeViper01
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
If one person can drive down prices on a vehicle, then there are some serious issues.
If one person can drive down prices on a vehicle, then there are some serious issues.
bluestreak
Enthusiast
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Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
I agree, he obviously has no idea about aero engineering, a pit crew cheif would have a fit.
Look at the difference in various cars:
C6 Corvette and Z06
997 Turbo and GT2
F430 and Scuderia
Gallardo and Superleggera
And I'd say the Viper is the most radically different than all of the rest compared to the base model. When you already have a devastatingly powerful car, the only way up is to start working on suspension and aero. There are factory options for power up to 675, I dont think you could ask for more than that, there is nothing else to need, Chevy had to change motors to get to the ZR-1 becasue they couldnt even make the Z06 reliable, adding power to the same motor would have only made it worse so they went F.I.
I honestly beleive there wont be a car as fast as the ACR, the GT2 will be close, the ZR-1 doesnt have enough downforce, the Carrera GT is out of production, the Superleggera is a lambo which they all underperform for the power levels, the Scuderia will be ok but not enough, and anything up from there is irrelevant.
I agree, he obviously has no idea about aero engineering, a pit crew cheif would have a fit.
Look at the difference in various cars:
C6 Corvette and Z06
997 Turbo and GT2
F430 and Scuderia
Gallardo and Superleggera
And I'd say the Viper is the most radically different than all of the rest compared to the base model. When you already have a devastatingly powerful car, the only way up is to start working on suspension and aero. There are factory options for power up to 675, I dont think you could ask for more than that, there is nothing else to need, Chevy had to change motors to get to the ZR-1 becasue they couldnt even make the Z06 reliable, adding power to the same motor would have only made it worse so they went F.I.
I honestly beleive there wont be a car as fast as the ACR, the GT2 will be close, the ZR-1 doesnt have enough downforce, the Carrera GT is out of production, the Superleggera is a lambo which they all underperform for the power levels, the Scuderia will be ok but not enough, and anything up from there is irrelevant.
rtigert
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
Where is this "675Hp factory option"?
I've heard many speak of it but haven't seen part numbers or pricing.
Where is this "675Hp factory option"?
I've heard many speak of it but haven't seen part numbers or pricing.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
+1
The VCA should start a new policy - $1 for every "Viper Production Ending" thread. Talk about a revenue stream.
+1
The VCA should start a new policy - $1 for every "Viper Production Ending" thread. Talk about a revenue stream.
B767DRIVER
Viper Owner
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
For info on the 675hp read here: http://forums.viperclub.org/vca-mem...mopar-showcase-viper-possibilities-naias.htmlWhere is this "675Hp factory option"?
I've heard many speak of it but haven't seen part numbers or pricing.
D
DAMN YANKEE
Guest
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
-1
We should also get a dollar for every piece of goods news from Dodge.
-1
We should also get a dollar for every piece of goods news from Dodge.
InjectTheVenom
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Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
How about we start to tell people who don't do their factual homework and just blurt something out that they "heard" to ****.... this is getting annoying beyond the point of ridiculous
How about we start to tell people who don't do their factual homework and just blurt something out that they "heard" to ****.... this is getting annoying beyond the point of ridiculous
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
Keep in mind the future 675 hp increase option is going to be from MoPar Performance, and though often stated as a factory option on forums, it has always been listed as a performance parts upgrade from Chrysler.
Keep in mind the future 675 hp increase option is going to be from MoPar Performance, and though often stated as a factory option on forums, it has always been listed as a performance parts upgrade from Chrysler.
rtigert
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
Thanks for responding, but that link is reserved for VCA Members (requiring VIN); of which I won't have until 2nd quarter.
Thanks Bill.
What are the MoPar Performance Parts components that equate to the 675Hp.
Thanks for responding, but that link is reserved for VCA Members (requiring VIN); of which I won't have until 2nd quarter.
Thanks Bill.
What are the MoPar Performance Parts components that equate to the 675Hp.
Big Medicine
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
I believe he said ROI, not profits. Profits on revenue determine ROI. If the ROI is not up to ***** in a certain segment, the bean counters start focusing on you and asking" why are we doing this?" and then there goes long term credit structure and insurance ratings and so forth and so on.
I mean really, if they are netting out 5-10% on investment, seems like a safer bet for the money is bond issues. Same money, less risk. On the other hand, if they are making 25% ROI, no discussion is necessary. It's a keeper unless significant risk is invloved.
If it were my investment money, would I spend it in hopes of getting the same returns they currently garner? Or would I want to spend it on something less risky with same ROI? Or would I want to spend it on something more risky with potential windfall? Would I gamble my branding?
What do you want to play in the casino? What is your risk profile? How deep are your pockets? What are your objectives?
New owner, new deal, new rules.
I believe he said ROI, not profits. Profits on revenue determine ROI. If the ROI is not up to ***** in a certain segment, the bean counters start focusing on you and asking" why are we doing this?" and then there goes long term credit structure and insurance ratings and so forth and so on.
I mean really, if they are netting out 5-10% on investment, seems like a safer bet for the money is bond issues. Same money, less risk. On the other hand, if they are making 25% ROI, no discussion is necessary. It's a keeper unless significant risk is invloved.
If it were my investment money, would I spend it in hopes of getting the same returns they currently garner? Or would I want to spend it on something less risky with same ROI? Or would I want to spend it on something more risky with potential windfall? Would I gamble my branding?
What do you want to play in the casino? What is your risk profile? How deep are your pockets? What are your objectives?
New owner, new deal, new rules.
Then try this little tidbit: The Viper is profitable. And with the money already spent for the drivetrain development they are simply printing cash as each Viper rolls into a Reliable truck.
I am pretty sure that when it goes to the dealer it is a sold unit as far as the manufacturer goes - they get paid by the dealer. Ever heard of a dealership sending cars back to the factory for a refund? Nope! The 2008's on the showroom floors are "sold" cars as far as the factory is concerned. The dealerships are banking on making a nice profit when they sell them to the consumer, while the factory already has when they sold it to the dealership.
If the Viper were to come to an end it wouldn't be because it was losing money. It would be because people keep starting rumors that make the company look indecisive or quoting ridiculous eBay prices so they can drive the market down enough to buy one themselves.
(waits for
RoadiJeff
Viper Owner
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
Gang, Cerberus bought Chrysler to build it up so they can most likely sell it off in a few years at a big profit - probably the Chinese, from what I've heard. If the Viper does not fit into their profit-building plans then its future is on shaky ground.
I don't think the new owners could give a hoot if they are the king of the hp war or not.
Gang, Cerberus bought Chrysler to build it up so they can most likely sell it off in a few years at a big profit - probably the Chinese, from what I've heard. If the Viper does not fit into their profit-building plans then its future is on shaky ground.
I don't think the new owners could give a hoot if they are the king of the hp war or not.
D
DAMN YANKEE
Guest
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
Bingo......
Bingo......
fastmd
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
Big Medicine, and RodiJeff are on the same lines as my post. If you have dealt with big players in PE, it is known that they will be getting out in the short term (3-5 years). This was NOT a Merger nor a acquisition for synergy, this was purchase made with debt. They need to make their payments like everyone else and but also get a handsome return. Cerberus is not getting the cash from the street as they thought would happen.
Cerberus will not show their cards to ANYONE, why would they do that? I know that many of us are multiple viper owners and Chrysler/dodge owners, but we are still the minority. There was a business case made to their note holders with a definite exit strategy to bring them financial gains, with no regards to making the greatest sports car ever.
Chrylser will be packaged up and sold to new owners in the next few years, remember the 7.4 billion they paid versus the 36 billion Daimler paid?
I hope it ends well, but this was JMHO.
Big Medicine, and RodiJeff are on the same lines as my post. If you have dealt with big players in PE, it is known that they will be getting out in the short term (3-5 years). This was NOT a Merger nor a acquisition for synergy, this was purchase made with debt. They need to make their payments like everyone else and but also get a handsome return. Cerberus is not getting the cash from the street as they thought would happen.
Cerberus will not show their cards to ANYONE, why would they do that? I know that many of us are multiple viper owners and Chrysler/dodge owners, but we are still the minority. There was a business case made to their note holders with a definite exit strategy to bring them financial gains, with no regards to making the greatest sports car ever.
Chrylser will be packaged up and sold to new owners in the next few years, remember the 7.4 billion they paid versus the 36 billion Daimler paid?
I hope it ends well, but this was JMHO.
MoparMan
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
Lighter...yes. Existing drivetrain will probably go away with the ZB.
Lighter...yes. Existing drivetrain will probably go away with the ZB.
D
DAMN YANKEE
Guest
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
We currently are owning and driving our Vipers in an environment where the current national mindset is one that is still relatively inclusive of performance cars and their attributes. What will come to pass, with ever increasing certainty, is a new national culture that is far less supportive (in all senses of the word...social, legislative, risk insurance and regulatory requirements) of the far end of the auto spectrum that we all are in now.
The end result? A transitional car company, led in good measure by mercenaries, trying to find a new buyer in a new culture that will tout the "civic responsibility of the preservation of resources." All the while, they will be held to a new standard of strategic automotive managerial skill...."Can you pick the platform to bet your business on?"
Given that..what do you think will resonate with any auto companies/partnerships they approach?
"We have the funding and designs and tooling for a new generation of fuel efficient, profitably built cars for the world at large"
or
"We have the funding and new design for a limited run of 700 horsepower street racers that is targeting an ageing and diminishing group in the U.S. that can live with 15mpg?"
The changes are that big, the problem that large.
All the old modes and models for developement and execution are off the table for Cerberus....they knew that going in.
Cerberus is late, a dollar short and bought the wrong company...In short, give them a year and they will be desperate to release their interests. The least of their problems...and therefor their focus, is the Viper. Given that...it isn't their solution either.
We currently are owning and driving our Vipers in an environment where the current national mindset is one that is still relatively inclusive of performance cars and their attributes. What will come to pass, with ever increasing certainty, is a new national culture that is far less supportive (in all senses of the word...social, legislative, risk insurance and regulatory requirements) of the far end of the auto spectrum that we all are in now.
The end result? A transitional car company, led in good measure by mercenaries, trying to find a new buyer in a new culture that will tout the "civic responsibility of the preservation of resources." All the while, they will be held to a new standard of strategic automotive managerial skill...."Can you pick the platform to bet your business on?"
Given that..what do you think will resonate with any auto companies/partnerships they approach?
"We have the funding and designs and tooling for a new generation of fuel efficient, profitably built cars for the world at large"
or
"We have the funding and new design for a limited run of 700 horsepower street racers that is targeting an ageing and diminishing group in the U.S. that can live with 15mpg?"
The changes are that big, the problem that large.
All the old modes and models for developement and execution are off the table for Cerberus....they knew that going in.
Cerberus is late, a dollar short and bought the wrong company...In short, give them a year and they will be desperate to release their interests. The least of their problems...and therefor their focus, is the Viper. Given that...it isn't their solution either.
Last edited by a moderator:
sween
Enthusiast
Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
I hope it doesn't stop production im just saying that they could.
I hope it doesn't stop production im just saying that they could.
pcc
Enthusiast
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- Aug 6, 2007
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Re: ***No More Viper After 2009??***
If are vipers are going the way of the dinosaur I can tell you right now that I will own one of the final special edition models.
If are vipers are going the way of the dinosaur I can tell you right now that I will own one of the final special edition models.
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