More powerful Viper? No, NOT the 2008!

JeremyS

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I was just speaking to a GM representative and he told me that the rumor around the Vette plant is that the Viper guys are already working, in earnest, on an egine bigger than the new 600HP. The new Vette is supposed to be 620 +/- and they say that a new Viper is slated to beat that number. I hope so!
 

Warfang

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A rep heard from a vette worker who heard the rumor of what's going on at Dodge...

cmon now... is this really post worthy?
 

plumcrazy

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not buying it...but then again i didnt think DC would pull out the new viper numbers they DID...so who knows.
 

Bobpantax

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It smells like disinformation. If enough people believe the rumor and defer a purchase of an 08, it would have an adverse effect on the Viper program. Also, once the Mopar aftermarket parts shown last January become widely available, anyone will be able to safely add on 75 HP.
 
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rcl4668

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Jeremy --

Sorry to hijack the post but nice license plate. Does she come with photon torpedoes?

/Rich
 

georgethedog

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HP... HP... HP... It's all about torque! Just like hearing kids talk about "watts" in their stereo systems. It's not about how many watts, its about the quality of the watts, which is not measured by the number of watts. Sorry for the sideways direction of this post. ;)
 

BLWNGTS

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Thats exactly right!! HP numbers is what makes people feel good..... but torque wins the race!!
 

FE 065

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Um, now that the Grail Keeper has retired and his protege is taking over.. (The King is Dead; Long Live The King!)

How about: 4 valve heads, 12:1 compression on pump gas, variable length intake tract, Dual Stage Fuel Injection with shower-type injectors, and exhaust power valve with Ti butterfly valves - like in the Japanese crotch rocket engines those little old ladies are building on assembly lines everyday ?

Have it ready by 2009 please :D
 

bluestreak

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Thats exactly right!! HP numbers is what makes people feel good..... but torque wins the race!!

Acutally it depends on what kind of race. Torque is good for drag racing, but not so good for road racing.
 

Nine Ball

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Thats exactly right!! HP numbers is what makes people feel good..... but torque wins the race!!

If that statement were true, then dump trucks and diesel cars would be quicker than anything. And V-Twin Harleys would be quicker than import bikes.

Horsepower wins races, or more accurately:

"Highest average HP across the racing rpm powerband" wins races :D
 

georgethedog

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If that statement were true, then dump trucks and diesel cars would be quicker than anything. And V-Twin Harleys would be quicker than import bikes.

Horsepower wins races, or more accurately:

"Highest average HP across the racing rpm powerband" wins races :D

Torque gets you off the line, period. Perfect example was the beatings many Mopars took (even the hemis) back around 69-71 from the super high torque (and ugly) Buicks. Also, there are too many other factors (gears, tires, etc.) to continue the discussion. All I am saying is the public is sooo in love with HP when in reality it is only part of the equation and is secondary to torque off the line. :drive:
 

black mamba1

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Everyone is guessing here, but it is fun. Horsepower not only makes people feel good...it also sells cars and gives bragging rights and makes for good rag cover.

One thing that does give the rumor credence is that back in the summer Viper magazine, the engineers admitted that the 08 was rushed to production. That it was basically a quick response to being trounced in the rags and at the strip by the Z06. ALSO, remember when they came into this forum some months back the engineers said they would be ready to respond to the ZR1....so that definitely means something is afoot.
 

Nine Ball

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Torque gets you off the line, period. Perfect example was the beatings many Mopars took (even the hemis) back around 69-71 from the super high torque (and ugly) Buicks. Also, there are too many other factors (gears, tires, etc.) to continue the discussion. All I am saying is the public is sooo in love with HP when in reality it is only part of the equation and is secondary to torque off the line. :drive:

If that were true, then how come the Dodge Cummins diesel equipped Ram trucks aren't faster than the SRT-10 Ram trucks? The Diesel makes over 600 ft-lbs stock. But, about 200 less HP.

Torque and HP are related by a simple mathematical equation. They are related by RPM as a variable. So yes, torque is very important, but torque (produced by an engine) does not 'win races' over focusing on increasing the highest average HP across the powerband. If you have higher HP, you also have higher torque. But, if you solely focused on increasing torque (ala diesel engines) then that doesn't mean they get faster or win more races.

You build an engine to produce higher HP. Torque can be multiplied by gearing and torque converters.
 

Vipermann

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It smells like disinformation. If enough people believe the rumor and defer a purchase of an 08, it would have an adverse effect on the Viper program. Also, once the Mopar aftermarket parts shown last January become widely available, anyone will be able to safely add on 75 HP.

Bingo. Total BS. The ACR is IT for now, and the ACR may very likely BEAT the ZR1 when the magazines do their track performance comparisons, so why would Dodge even need to bother?
 

bluestreak

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Bingo. Total BS. The ACR is IT for now, and the ACR may very likely BEAT the ZR1 when the magazines do their track performance comparisons, so why would Dodge even need to bother?


I dont think there is any question the ACR will beat the ZR-1 on track performance. It will likely lose 1/4 mile, but with the extra 200 lbs the ZR-1 has the weight/hp ratios are almost identical. The Vette has far too much power to put down on street tires where the ACR has the downforce to be planted. The ACR should beat the ZR-1 badly on the road course stock vs stock.
 

black mamba1

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If that were true, then how come the Dodge Cummins diesel equipped Ram trucks aren't faster than the SRT-10 Ram trucks? The Diesel makes over 600 ft-lbs stock. But, about 200 less HP.

Torque and HP are related by a simple mathematical equation. They are related by RPM as a variable. So yes, torque is very important, but torque (produced by an engine) does not 'win races' over focusing on increasing the highest average HP across the powerband. If you have higher HP, you also have higher torque. But, if you solely focused on increasing torque (ala diesel engines) then that doesn't mean they get faster or win more races.

You build an engine to produce higher HP. Torque can be multiplied by gearing and torque converters.
Torque is how much work you produce. Horsepower is how quickly you produce that work.

I am a strong man if I can benchpress 400 lbs...and say it takes me 30 seconds to push it all the way up just once. I am an even effectively stronger man if I can benchpress 400 lbs ten times in 30 seconds, and that is the effect of horsepower over torque.
 

MoparMan

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Everyone is guessing here, but it is fun. Horsepower not only makes people feel good...it also sells cars and gives bragging rights and makes for good rag cover.

One thing that does give the rumor credence is that back in the summer Viper magazine, the engineers admitted that the 08 was rushed to production. That it was basically a quick response to being trounced in the rags and at the strip by the Z06. ALSO, remember when they came into this forum some months back the engineers said they would be ready to respond to the ZR1....so that definitely means something is afoot.

Supposedly, there are beta vehicles in testing right now.
 

Warfang

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Supposedly, there are beta vehicles in testing right now.

That's always going to be the case. There will always be R&D that will have mules more awesome than the current production cars. But this whole air of whisper hush hush "I know a secret... somebody who knows somebody who has heard a rumor" mentality is silly.

It's just stating the obvious, then throwing yourself into the story.
 

ViperTony

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I know this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy's SISTER, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy....says the 2020 Viper will be diesel powered.
 

Vipermann

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One thing that does give the rumor credence is that back in the summer Viper magazine, the engineers admitted that the 08 was rushed to production. That it was basically a quick response to being trounced in the rags and at the strip by the Z06. ALSO, remember when they came into this forum some months back the engineers said they would be ready to respond to the ZR1....so that definitely means something is afoot.

'...rushed to production'? with no '07s? I guess it's all a matter of context.

'...ready to respond to the ZR1'? yeah, but that was before we all learned what a disappointment the ZR1 turned out to be. ... I mean c'mon, the ZR1 is going to be real popular parked in front of GameStop and at Sonic, but serious car people know that car is just loaded with way too much in the way of fake scoops, a clear hood (#@&*!), and poseur mods. The Corvette had questionable class to begin with, but now it's like they're going after long lost Trans Am buyers that might now have a $100K to blow. It's like GM just fumbled the ball, down by 7 and with only a minute left to play. All Dodge has to do now is take a knee.
 
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Chuck 98 RT/10

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I know this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy's SISTER, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy....says the 2020 Viper will be diesel powered.

Nope. Hydrogen powered. And I got that straight from the line cook in at the Chrysler cafeteria
 

black mamba1

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'...rushed to production'? with no '07s? I guess it's all a matter of context.

'...ready to respond to the ZR1'? yeah, but that was before we all learned what a disappointment the ZR1 turned out to be. ... I mean c'mon, the ZR1 is going to be real popular parked in front of GameStop and at Sonic, but serious car people know that car is just loaded with way too much in the way of fake scoops, a clear hood (#@&*!), and poseur mods. The Corvette had questionable class to begin with, but now it's like they're going after long lost Trans Am buyers that might now have a $100K to blow. It's like GM just fumbled the ball, down by 7 and with only a minute left to play. All Dodge has to do now is take a knee.
ok.

First rule of war...never underestimate your competition. I am telling you, that ZR1 is going to be bad ass. I hate to say it, but trust me on that.
 

ViperRay

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The ZR1 may better the ACR slightly in 0 - 60 and 1/4 mile partly because it will launch better with it's active suspension system (it will squat at launch... therefore less wheel hop) and power/weight, BUT, with the unfavorable weight distribution (nose heavy 52/48) the ACR will kick its butt on the road course.
It reminds me of how the cars of the '60's went to big blocks and then couldn't turn anymore (or even less so I should say).
 

Andrew/USPWR

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I think the ACR proves the SRT team can keep a secret.

It must be frustrating for them (SRT) to be working on projects for the next Viper and we're talking about it's cancellation. IMO

Dodge has proved the doomdayers wrong so many times.
 

Asp Man

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It was, I think, Shelby who said: "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races."
And like stereo, it's not how many watts, but how much dB the system makes. In other words, it matters not how much power you have if you can't lay it down efficiently.
 

SweetRed04

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If that were true, then how come the Dodge Cummins diesel equipped Ram trucks aren't faster than the SRT-10 Ram trucks? The Diesel makes over 600 ft-lbs stock. But, about 200 less HP.

Torque and HP are related by a simple mathematical equation. They are related by RPM as a variable. So yes, torque is very important, but torque (produced by an engine) does not 'win races' over focusing on increasing the highest average HP across the powerband. If you have higher HP, you also have higher torque. But, if you solely focused on increasing torque (ala diesel engines) then that doesn't mean they get faster or win more races.

You build an engine to produce higher HP. Torque can be multiplied by gearing and torque converters.

This is right on.

I can get 10,000 ft-lb of torque from a 3.5 HP engine, it will NOT be faster or quicker than an SRT with 500 lf-lb of torque that has 500 HP.

The key is:

"focusing on increasing the highest average HP across the powerband"
 

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