Motor Trend "MT Confidential"

There is a deep silence about Viper's futur and new developments at Chrysler. Basically we have to rely on rumors and so on.

However there are a couple of intriguing lines in Motor Trend ....

"Viper on endangered list" was the headline in our May issue. Is the Viper dead ? No, but it most certainly isn't breathing much. The fact is, Chrysler doesn't have a next-generation Dodge Viper in its product plans. The current Viper could soldier on indefinitely, perhaps, but even the C3 corvette was replaced after 15 years. SRT boss Her Helbig would love to swap the steel chassis for an aluminium one a la Corvette Z06. With no other changes, he reckons that would give the Viper better handling, more performance, and better fuel economu. But there is no money, and even less interest among the Cerberus brass ...


This is interesting. Would it be possible to swap a chassis in alluminium with the same dimensions but thicker wall tubing ?! I don't know if the fatigue points would be the same.
It should likely require extensive testing for torsion and so on.

Probably be good for the non-turbo high horsepower cars... But for stock 600 to 800... I think it would make a nice difference...

Joe

Automobile Magazine has a similar quote about how the Viper "is nearing it's final mile"

While it's sad, just means our snakes will be worth a lot more in years to come!

More "Doom and Gloom" rumors. Started by the vette guys? After all the previous rumors it's gets pretty tiring. We have just started with the newest and best Viper yet and someone's continueing the old rumors.

Not only is the Viper continueing production and getting better, the ACR reproduced, there's an auction for the 2009 Viper for members.

GM is still chasing Chrysler with late production of the Camaro and ZR1 vette. It may even be possible that they'll catch up - in the '09 models. Question is; will Chrysler allow them to? Or will Chrysler kick their ass for years to come?

It would hurt my pride if our Governments continued to increase costs on North American Muscle until all North American Sports Cars became cost ineffective, like what they did to the Ford GT and the Saleen S7. The idea of being forced to buy Italian, German or British only to get a "Best in the World" sports car would really hurt the pride of many North Americans, wouldn't it?

The enviromentalists that do the most comlaining about our elitist cars shouldn't be allowed to be produced are led by European Enviromentalists. They're the ones after having our cars discontinued. They should stay home, work on their own Governments.

If I was Cda or US governement, I'd give tax breaks to the 'home' companies building the BEST products in the world. Our cars being at the top of that list.

Ted

Very old news. Herb Helbig has been retired for months. In the recent SRT engineer chat, they said that they would like to reduce the weight of the vehicle. As for the future, we are good until 2010. After that it is still undecided. I believe that Press and Nardelli like the car and asked SRT to come up with some numbers to indicate what it would cost to keep the Viper alive past 2010.

if they change to an aluminium chassis then say goodbye to the vert

with the way the economy is going/i dont see the viper staying after 2011,automakers are hurting taking big losses year after year.if it stops production they did a great run and plenty of new and used ones for sale,and making the vipers more valuable which would be nice to see imo.

If the SRT engineers are shrewd, I think a convincing presentation can be put together to keep the Viper alive as a tech test bed. While tech is coming from the SRT8 vehicles to the Viper, i.e. the pistons, tech is also going from the Viper to other Chrysler LLC vehicles, i.e. the Viper tranny is available in the '09 Challenger and VVT is already being applied to other engines. If they are going to work on weight reduction, some of what they come up with might be useable in other cars in the Chrysler lineup. If they can make the case that the Viper program is an inexpensive way to test new tech in a high performance, high stress environment, maybe management will buy into it. Just a thought. I hope someone from SRT reads this or Chris secretly forwards this post to them. Maybe they thought of this approach and maybe they did not.

I wish there was some way to get the restrictor plates removed from racing so that the Viper could kick ALL asses on the tracks. If all Vipers won nearly all races like the old days Viper would still be in it's heyday. The advertising would be more than worthwhile.

Ted

Bobpantax said:

If the SRT engineers are shrewd, I think a convincing presentation can be put together to keep the Viper alive as a tech test bed. While tech is coming from the SRT8 vehicles to the Viper, i.e. the pistons, tech is also going from the Viper to other Chrysler LLC vehicles, i.e. the Viper tranny is available in the '09 Challenger and VVT is already being applied to other engines. If they are going to work on weight reduction, some of what they come up with might be useable in other cars in the Chrysler lineup. If they can make the case that the Viper program is an inexpensive way to test new tech in a high performance, high stress environment, maybe management will buy into it. Just a thought. I hope someone from SRT reads this or Chris secretly forwards this post to them. Maybe they thought of this approach and maybe they did not.

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VOI.10 anyone?

I can remember when the Viper was in almost EVERY Dodge commercial at some point...now you don't even see them. It's almost as if it's become Dodge's dirty little secret because of the "gas crisis." Dodge should be proud of the amazing vehicle it created and cultivated. It is truly America's top sports car.

Perhaps they should build an ad campaign showing that the Viper gets great mileage as compared to the SUVs? 503ci getting the same gas mileage as a V6 family car??? Even my "OLD" superhcharged 488ci. gets the same mileage as the wife's sh-tty 3.0L Escape.

I know that whenever I tell someone what my car's mileage is they really don't believe me. Some advertising should get rid of most of the haters?

Ted

People can't beleive it either when I tell them I have gotten a best of 24 mpg, all highway, going 75-85 the entire time, on the way to Texas for VOI 8.

One of our esteemed members actually kept it at 65-67 mph and actually achieved 27 mpg in his GTS.

I was actually talking to my wife the other night about how funny it would be for me to get a personalized tag that says "45 mpg" for my Viper and go around terrorizing all the Prius's in our neck of the woods.

On our recent trip to Moab, I got 23mpg in my GTS with 3.73:1 gears and one club member got 30mpg in his 94 RT10.

Detlef said:

On our recent trip to Moab, I got 23mpg in my GTS with 3.73:1 gears and one club member got 30mpg in his 94 RT10.

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Was his 94RT10 on a flatbed?

Alexarz said:

Was his 94RT10 on a flatbed?

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damn 30mpg must of been a prius viper wow

alpine7822 said:

I can remember when the Viper was in almost EVERY Dodge commercial at some point...now you don't even see them. It's almost as if it's become Dodge's dirty little secret because of the "gas crisis." Dodge should be proud of the amazing vehicle it created and cultivated. It is truly America's top sports car.

Click to expand...

Welcome to the limp wristed world of advertising.

I just saw a commercial last night with a Lincoln Navigator.

One MAJOR standout of the commercial mentioned specifically was that this SUV takes "REGULAR" gas.

I don't think in my lifetime have I ever heard a commercial with an automaker listing REGULAR GAS as a feature.

These days it's not cool to have a gas guzzler. Prius and ULEV are in.

Sad thing is the V10 in our cars runs SUPER SUPER clean. I just had my 05 Viper smogged and the measured pollution levels were almost all 0!! I couldn't believe it.

However, the general uninformed sheep public have no idea about this fact.

They just care about the SUV's that are advertised as taking "REGULAR" gas, LOL

It is a sad day. Of course, this happened in the 70's with muscle cars, and they went away for a while, now those cars are worth a lot of money. Things will come around again and we'll all be sitting pretty if we stay dedicated to our cars.

I've vowed to never apologize for my Viper. I worked my butt off for it and no tree-hugging, Prius driving hippie is going to make me feel ashamed for having a nice car. Besides, they look so cute as they get smaller and smaller in my rear view!

Well what is amazing and GREAT is that we have all these HIGH horsepower vehicles out and about and on the drawing boards of car companies worldwide.

What a great time to be alive.

500HP is everywhere!!

I remember thinking I was on top of the world back in 1992 when I had a Mustang 5.0 with 225HP and 300 ft/lbs of torque. The Viper wasn't even really out then and I think the 300HP LT1 Corvette was the bees knees back then.

Nowadays RAV4's have 270HP and are beating other V8 cars from the early 90's stop light to stop light.

Our high HP product is still out there, but this country has become so politically correct and full of nannies for everything we do these days it's no surprise MPG and NIMBY-NESS are out in full force.

There are even stock 200HP motorcycles out now.

Technology is great, but the OEM's need to advertise something other than Pick up truck, SUV and hybrid.

It's getting boring on TV nowadays.

I still can't believe Toyota butchered Dire Straits classic with that dreadful "I want my MPG" tune.

I heard a rumor (AGAIN!) that the 6 cylinder Corvette may return.

Fact or Fiction?

I'd rather have a retirement party for the Viper than a castrated marque.

Remember the Mustang Cobra from the 70's? LOL...A far cry from the 400+ 04 Cobra sitting in my driveway.

If the Viper is to go away (doubtful) I'd rather it go out burning bright (600+HP) then fading to oblivion.

Thankfully the general public isn't the target market for the Viper. Just as Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, and others continue to sell cars and have no intention of closing their doors. Indeed, just found these various entries on the web:

For Ferrari: "Total income grew 15% in 2007 up to €1.55b, and profits rose by 25% to €230m. Car sales also increased to 6,400 units, mainly due to the increase in million-and billionaires in emerging markets like the Middle East and South Asia. This is causing a side effect: Long waiting lists force clients go for other marquees. Therefore, Ferrari will cut waiting lists to less than 18 months by increasing production to 8,000 units in three years."

Lamborghini? Posted in the past six months: "Lamborghini has announced that it plans to increase its overall sales to 3,000 units annually — 500 more than it sells now. But to achieve the increased sales goal, Lamborghini will not introduce new models but rely on the two it currently sells."

Porsche? Increasing production and adding a four-door sedan with up to 520 HP for 2009. Hybrid version slated for 2011 (not kidding).

Aston Martin? "He also noted the company would be increasing production slightly from 7,000 units a year to 8,000. The move won't do much to decrease wait times, however. "If you have the money, you have to wait. Otherwise you will not feel attached to your car," Charanoglu said."

And the Viper? Well, this was published last month: "Americans also turned away from sporty cars in the first quarter. Of the 33 models listed on the Automotive News sales chart, 26 suffered sales declines. On the upside: the Audi TT, Mini Cooper and Dodge Viper."

And to Bob's astute observation about using the Viper as a successful technology testbed, folks like Microsoft and the Transportation Research Center agreed:

Automotive News and co-sponsors Microsoft, SAP and the Transportation Research Center Inc. present the winners of the 2008 Automotive News PACE Awards. The winners were judged to be the best at creating innovative products and processes. A group of independent judges chose the winners from 23 finalists.
Chrysler LLC
Collaborating with: Mahle
For: CamInCam variable valve timing camshaft
From the judges' citation: "In 2004, Chrysler's Street and Racing Technology team faced a challenge to the Dodge Viper. Like many big, high-performance engines, this one displayed combustion instability at light loads due to aggressive valve timing for high-speed power and did not meet EPA standards. Mahle engineers, already involved with the SRT team, saw that independent rotation up to 40 degrees between intake and exhaust cams was possible using assembled camshaft know-how. The Dodge Viper V-10 engine now has 60 percent better combustion stability, full-range OBDII misfire detection, part-load fuel economy improved 14 percent, increased exhaust gas recirculation and 18 percent higher peak power. Working together, Mahle, INA and Chrysler accomplished what had not been done in the century since the first Cam-In-Cam patent in 1908: independent timing of exhaust and intake valves in one camshaft."

So don't write off the Viper just yet. Oh, at times it seems like an uphill battle, but the exotic car segment is far from dead (see above), the Viper is getting the latest technology, and it is selling as strongly as it ever has before.

And one last little tidbit for the masses: At least one 2008 Viper was sold to a VIP in NYC. You know, where Chrysler's owners live.

Y2K5SRT said:

Thankfully the general public isn't the target market for the Viper.

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Great info in that post, however the first sentence sums it up just perfectly for me!!!

The entire reason I bought this car!!

That puts the truth to the vette owner's comments that Vipers are 'low tech'. I think that the Venom controller is the most advanced in the Industry, is it not?

Ted

Based on the text of the article it's safe to say it's state of the art based on 2004 tech.

I am sure there is some other manufacturer with full VVT, forced induction, etc with an ECU that is more advanced than Venom.

I don't have facts, but it's just an assumption guessing the R & D was done on this a couple years ago. (Starting on 04 per the citation above)

I read that the Venom controller was a year long job - the year being all of '07. Viper mag I believe.

You could assume the varicam technology research was STARTED in '04 and took until 07 for development.

You're thinking of Honda's Vtec? That's different technology.

Ted

RTTTTed said:

You're thinking of Honda's Vtec? That's different technology.

Ted

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Sorry I didn't understand this statement..........I didn't mention VTEC in my post.


I guess what I meant is I think there are other cars with engines that have more going on inside such as Variable Valve timing couple with a turbo or supercharger that may have more sophisticated ECU's.

It's safe to say that the Venom controller is probably the most advanced naturally aspirated OHV engine ECU in the world.

I don't think WOT (when turbos make the biggest difference) is an issue with emmissions. Tests are performed at idle and "climbing a hill" throttle openings. The largest cubic inch engine has issues with idle and part throttle combustion efficiency. Baby sized engines with turbos are quite efficient and don't need much technology to pass emissions.

Maybe someone else has their V. mag on hand and will write the Venom development for you. I can't find mine right now. The Venom controller is 10x times faster processing. You did read the reply that said that Chrysler got the award???

As far as I know California and Canada have the highest emmissions requirements in the world.

Ted

RTTTTed said:

I don't think WOT (when turbos make the biggest difference) is an issue with emmissions. Tests are performed at idle and "climbing a hill" throttle openings. The largest cubic inch engine has issues with idle and part throttle combustion efficiency. Baby sized engines with turbos are quite efficient and don't need much technology to pass emissions.

Maybe someone else has their V. mag on hand and will write the Venom development for you. I can't find mine right now. The Venom controller is 10x times faster processing. You did read the reply that said that Chrysler got the award???

As far as I know California and Canada have the highest emmissions requirements in the world.

Ted

Click to expand...

No need to get defensive.

My replies were based on your earlier statement "I think that the Venom controller is the most advanced in the Industry, is it not?"

They won an award, yes and the title was "Collaborator Award Winner" I did not see where it stated most efficient or powerful ECU currently used in a street legal automobile.

To believe the VENOM controller is more advanced than say a Bentley Engine Controller, or the McLaren Mercedes SLR engine management is quite a statement and also quite naive.

I don't recall bringing up emissions or WOT.

10x faster processing than what? Previous Viper ECU's? Omni GLH?

Schulmann said:

There is a deep silence about Viper's futur and new developments at Chrysler. Basically we have to rely on rumors and so on.

However there are a couple of intriguing lines in Motor Trend ....

"Viper on endangered list" was the headline in our May issue. Is the Viper dead ? No, but it most certainly isn't breathing much. The fact is, Chrysler doesn't have a next-generation Dodge Viper in its product plans. The current Viper could soldier on indefinitely, perhaps, but even the C3 corvette was replaced after 15 years. SRT boss Her Helbig would love to swap the steel chassis for an aluminium one a la Corvette Z06. With no other changes, he reckons that would give the Viper better handling, more performance, and better fuel economu. But there is no money, and even less interest among the Cerberus brass ...


This is interesting. Would it be possible to swap a chassis in alluminium with the same dimensions but thicker wall tubing ?! I don't know if the fatigue points would be the same.
It should likely require extensive testing for torsion and so on.

Click to expand...

in case you didn't know... much to many peoples dismay i do belive that herb retired recently.

These Vipers can get good gas mileage if driven very carefully including turning off the AC - I know because of overestimating gas station availability when driving out in the boonies - 25 mpg not hard under 65.

The Viper won't go away - we may see turbocharged 5 cylinders in it.

IMO, the Viper's market should be affected little to none with the gas prices and global warming. The well-off (most of us) don't care too much about these things (we should but we don't). The Viper does have to compete with more expensive cars (except Corvette) to get the attention of the well-off enthusiast. The middle class is getting hurt in this economy; very few of them buy Vipers (new ones anyway).

Aluminum chassis - I hope SRT is careful with this - aluminum isn't as tough as steel and not as easy to repair. Repairablility and reliability is high on my list.