I hate my PS2's need help ?

I purchased a set of PS2's at the beginning of the season. I thought they would of been an up grade from the stock tires. I was wrong. I used them twice , once for a track day at Pocono and this weekend at Viper Days. They are so worn out on the edge I'm affraid to used them for another event. I had my stock tires for 2 1/2 years with far more events than this. I'm thinking of putting my old tires back on to get through the season. they are in better shape than the PS2's.
My question is does any one have any info on a Kumho's. I'm thinking of going with a square tire instead of a rounded tire. I don't trailer my car to the events so I need a street legal tire. When I win the raffle for the ACR then that will be a different story. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks RICK

YELLOH said:

I purchased a set of PS2's at the beginning of the season. I thought they would of been an up grade from the stock tires. I was wrong. I used them twice , once for a track day at Pocono and this weekend at Viper Days. They are so worn out on the edge I'm affraid to used them for another event. I had my stock tires for 2 1/2 years with far more events than this. I'm thinking of putting my old tires back on to get through the season. they are in better shape than the PS2's.
My question is does any one have any info on a Kumho's. I'm thinking of going with a square tire instead of a rounded tire. I don't trailer my car to the events so I need a street legal tire. When I win the raffle for the ACR then that will be a different story. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks RICK

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Rick,
Have you considered Pirelli PZero's? I installed PZero's after removing my PS2's and the improvement was like night and day. I let the tech who swapped out the tires take it for a drive and even he was amazed at the before and after. PS2's seem to be alot more popular with Viper owners than the Pirelli's so I'm sure there is a reason and I'm probably missing something in the comparison. However, going by seat of the pants handling I doubt I'll ever drive anything but PZero's in the future. Did you think to ask the girl driving the Z06 what she had on for rubber?

What are the sizes of the PZeros?

Hi Mike
I have the 19 & 20 Pzeros on my drive around wheels. I was using my old stock rims with the PS2s for the track.
RICK

Have you considered Kumho V700's?

They do make them in a 335/30/18

I run Kumho Ecsta Mx's at the track and on the street on my Z06, but the largest they make them is a 295.

I think the Toyo Proxies are also made in a 335

Have you considered Kumho V700's?

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I have Kumho V700's on my car. The grip is amazing, but they are super soft. You will wear them out in 1 or 2 track days. Ron.

YELLOH said:

I used them twice , once for a track day at Pocono and this weekend at Viper Days. They are so worn out on the edge I'm affraid to used them for another event.
appreciate any advice. Thanks RICK

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It's either the alignment is not right or you were running to low of air pressure for the track ?

Viper Wizard said:

It's either the alignment is not right or you were running to low of air pressure for the track ?

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My thoughts exactly. Check both. Even my experience with the Pzero is dwarfed by the PS2.

For an all purpose High performance tire, its really hard to beat the PS2 in my opinion.


Flash

I love the PS2's They stick good and are very predictable if they do slide. As others said, Id check your alignment and a few other things.

Also, evryones opinions and feedback vary, but what Ive seen, the PS2 is better then the Pzero. My Buddy, ILLSMOQ went from his 19/20 Ps2's to the 19/20 Pzeros. He says the PS2 stuck so much better. Ive seen him spin up 3rd gear on freeway with Pirelli's. We never did that with Ps2's. And Ive ran track events on stock tires, felt ok, but when i put PS2's on my stock wheels it was a world of difference. I would bet lap times would show a big difference.

Hi guys, The pzreos are only for show and driving around. The PS2's is what I have on my stock rims for the track.
I had Archer Racing put a mid range race alignment half way through the weekend. I was running tire pressure 30LBS cold and came in at 35LBS hot.

Rick, you was too fast in Calabogie !

I think the problem is alignment related. If you have just -3 degree camber it can be fatal for your tires. Though your track times will be much better. Take the example of Ralph with the white 2006 Coupe. He was running Pilot Cups and ruined his tires in a half day. His track times were in the 2:20. He had to buy a set of Hoosiers from Archer. Usually I ask my tire man to put 0 to -0.5 camber to my wheels. It isn't good for racing but allows me to put record number of miles on my tires. I have 12000mi and 7 lapping days on my tires and they are still holding. Though my lap times are not record low numbers. My track time was 2:36 and I was missing a lot of grip in the front with the 275 tires.


PS2 tires are known to be better than the ran flats.

As a work around solution you could flip the tires around the rims. But I think you can't do this with the PS2. It was faisable with directional tires.

Lapping cost a lot of money if you drive too fast

I got the 18" & 19" P Zero. The spin and fishtailing was still bad but they were better than the run flats.

I now have the Michelin Sport Cups on the rear-man what a tire.

A close friend has the PS2 on his Viper and loves them.

Yelloh-If I could get the Kuhmo V700 in the 19" for the rear I would probably have them on now.

something else is wrong.

the ps2 is not your problem.....going to any other "street tire" will be a step in the wrong direction.

Rick , I assume you are talking outer edge and not inner. Its not the tires fault its definitely an alignment issue. You need to have the toe checked and add more negative camber. By doing this it will allow the tire to be flatter in the turns and stop you from riding on the shoulder of the tire.

You did one track day and a separate weekend with Viper Days and your tires are scrubbed? Sounds right to me.
If your other tires lasted longer, I'd say you were not as fast. What you've gained in speed you lose in rubber!
I have the Kumho V700's and a hard driven weekend is the best they'll last.

I am just changing to PS2's on my SRT and this has been one of the most useful posts I have ever read.

Thanks very much

id bet alignment and pressure was the problem

You should be around 1.8 degrees neg in the front and .8 neg in the rear. The Viper does not need -3 degrees to work well and the turn in will seem "slow" until the tire gets flat on the track and generates grip. You will also be giving up braking efficiency with that much. Your toe should be 0 in the front and + .2 per side in the rear. I would also suggest a higher cold pressure if 32 psi if it was my car. You may even see the pressures climb further than before because the tire will be working better.

Good luck.

YELLOH said:

Hi guys, The pzreos are only for show and driving around. The PS2's is what I have on my stock rims for the track.
I had Archer Racing put a mid range race alignment half way through the weekend. I was running tire pressure 30LBS cold and came in at 35LBS hot.

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quote Rick , I assume you are talking outer edge and not inner. Its not the tires fault its definitely an alignment issue. You need to have the toe checked and add more negative camber. By doing this it will allow the tire to be flatter in the turns and stop you from riding on the shoulder of the tire. quote


Rick,

You didn't get Archer to align your car till late am on Sunday, and you didn't put it back on the track till the afternoon. So that leaves like 3 sessions after the alignment. Russ, from Archer is a Master so I'm sure he gave you what you asked for. Did you write down the numbers by chance? You also mentioned that you let the instructors drive you car Sunday afternoon. If they pushed the car and your pressures were 35 hot I think thats a little low. For me the sweet spot is 37 hot. Bottom line to me is that perhaps most of the damage was done prior to the alignment and running too low a pressure. You mentioned that they are rounded but i believe they are supposed to do that to a certain extent. Thats one reason why we constantly check the pressures so we can get just the right amt of edge roll ( if i'm explaing it correctly). Kumos will go away fast because they are soft and I don't think they come in 19" sizes

Post a pic

Dave

I had just raised this same issue http://forums.viperclub.org/general-viper-discussion/615621-ps2-tire-wear.html.

As I indicated in my thread, I am having the exact same issues and I just had my car aligned at the beginning of the year and another member from our club corded two tires after just two events. These tires may be great for the street, but clearly have issues when used on the track.

mjorgensen said:

You should be around 1.8 degrees neg in the front and .8 neg in the rear. The Viper does not need -3 degrees to work well and the turn in will seem "slow" until the tire gets flat on the track and generates grip. You will also be giving up braking efficiency with that much. Your toe should be 0 in the front and + .2 per side in the rear. I would also suggest a higher cold pressure if 32 psi if it was my car. You may even see the pressures climb further than before because the tire will be working better.

Good luck.

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Mark --

I have a high performance driving school tomorrow at PIR and set my cold pressures this morning on my 2008 at 30 psi rear and 34 psi front to dial out some understeer. Do those starting pressures sound reasonable or should I jack it up to something like 32 psi cold rear and 36 psi front? Thanks.

/Rich

rcl4668 said:

Mark --

I have a high performance driving school tomorrow at PIR and set my cold pressures this morning on my 2008 at 30 psi rear and 34 psi front to dial out some understeer. Do those starting pressures sound reasonable or should I jack it up to something like 32 psi cold rear and 36 psi front? Thanks.

/Rich

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Rich,

The staggered pressures will make the initial turn in "loose" but will probably fade by mid corner and still push on exit. For an autocross this may work but with the Vipers 50/50 split I would keep them both at 32-34 cold so the mid corner speeds will be higher. The car will be easier to drive and you will be faster at the end of the day, IMHO.

mjorgensen said:

Rich,

The staggered pressures will make the initial turn in "loose" but will probably fade by mid corner and still push on exit. For an autocross this may work but with the Vipers 50/50 split I would keep them both at 32-34 cold so the mid corner speeds will be higher. The car will be easier to drive and you will be faster at the end of the day, IMHO.

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Thanks Mark!

I'll try starting at 33 psi cold all around and report back the results.

Sounds like the guys have hit this one on the head, not enough air in your tires along with a bad track alignment. Having an instructor drive your car won't help your tire wear issues either.

First, don't expect too much wear from a relatively soft tire. If you want to go fast, you will be replacing tires regularly. The PS2 C1 (2008 Viper OE tire) is a very good all around tire, i.e. good at the track for a street tire and good on the street.

Don't know your track but some tracks under some conditions require that you put more air in the tires than others. Sometimes more in the fronts than the rears, sometimes more on one side than the other. Sounds like you were low on air especially if you look at your PS2's right now and they have quite a bit of rubber left in the center of the tires but very little along the edges.

Also sounds like your alighment was off before Archer did the work. Russ is a master at this. It's too bad you didn't get the car aligned by Archer before you started.

Opinions vary on track alignments too. I run a more aggressive track alighment than Mark is recommending and get good wear from my tires, but I do check them after every session and adjust as necessary.

As for the Kumho Ecsta V-700's, treadwear rating 50, I have not found a better DOT tire to drive to the track with, drive the track all weekend and drive home. Yes, they are soft but I've found that they are stickier and last longer than tires that are rated at treadwear 100 ( Pilot Sport Cups, Toyo RA1's and Toyo R888's come to mind). I get about 4 track days out of shaved / heat cycled Kumhos. They are also less expensive than most track tires but you will need a set of 18 inch wheels to run them.

Call JonB at Partsrack. Kumhos and SSRs are a very good track combination.

Good luck,

Dan

ILLSMOQ said:

something else is wrong. the ps2 is not your problem.....going to any other "street tire" will be a step in the wrong direction.

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Please, dear GOD, dont let me say it:

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I agree with illsmoqu...............................

Hi Guys
Thank you for all your input on this situation. After reading everyones posts, I think it was more the alignment and tire presure. I like Andras theory that I must of been driving fast. In fact I got my A$$ whooped by a 30 year old girl at the track. Man she was fast, cute too. I'm sorry guys.
Why doesn't Kumho make a 19" rear tire.
RICK

Ok so with ps2s we want to raise pressure to like 32-34psi cold for the track, have about 29 psi cold for everyday street driving, and lower it to about 25 psi cold for the drag strip. That sound about right?

YeLLOH

Please fix the typo in your signature. Are you planning on sticking a flute or a trombone on those minivans? "band" - are you kidding me???

JonB - PartsRack said:

Please, dear GOD, dont let me say it:

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I agree with illsmoqu...............................

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Aside from being an a$$hole I'm usually quite agreeable.

The PS2's grip approaches that of the track tires the others mentioned. Go to any sports car forum you will find most people run the PS2 there is no better street tire in our sizes.