TT vs S/C

Red Snake

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"800+ rwhp is a lot of hp but its easy to get used to"
That's exactly why I will probably go with the TT. When I got my first Viper I thought it was a bad MF. Then I heard guys were actually modding them and adding HP. I couldn't believe that some one would want more hp.
That quickly changed...

Then again, I also couldn't believe people owned more than one Viper.
That quickly changed too...:D

People own more than one Viper? :omg:
 

2MANYTOYS

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2MANYTOYS should be able to give you a good comparison. He has had a Paxton (and Roe) as now has a TT.

There should be a few other memeber that have switched as well.

Thanks Simms :DThat would be 2 Roe's, 1 paxton, and now a TT:D I sent Tree Snake a pm with my phone number I'd be happy to give my two cents
 

JohnnyBravo

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You know my opinion, Mike.

You won't be happy with a Paxton build. You'll always want more and you'll always know that other people have it and you don't. It will drive you crazy.

I love my Underground Racing paxton build. But if I had the money, I would have an Underground Racing twin turbo build instead. The ONLY thing that kept me from having UGR install twin turbos was cost.

Even at 965 rwhp, I still want more on the highway and more at the track. On the street, it's hard to hook 860 rwhp on Kumhos and warm roads. Those are the times you think, "I've got enough power". But there are definitely times when I wish I had more.

You've got a bad ass, custom painted, wide body, one of a kind Street Serpent. It needs to have as much "go" as it does "show". I'd just put the damn thing in a trailer and send it to Charlotte, NC. That body, those wheels and a UGR TT kit would have your car on the front of every magazine known to man and I can't imagine a car show you couldn't win with it.
 
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treesnake

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Thanks Simms :DThat would be 2 Roe's, 1 paxton, and now a TT:D I sent Tree Snake a pm with my phone number I'd be happy to give my two cents


Hope you got my PM. Thanks a million for the offer to discuss with me. Unfortunately, I didn't get home until late last night. Please let me know if you have another free minute and I will contact you...:2tu:
 
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treesnake

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You know my opinion, Mike.

You won't be happy with a Paxton build. You'll always want more and you'll always know that other people have it and you don't. It will drive you crazy.

I love my Underground Racing paxton build. But if I had the money, I would have an Underground Racing twin turbo build instead. The ONLY thing that kept me from having UGR install twin turbos was cost.

Even at 965 rwhp, I still want more on the highway and more at the track. On the street, it's hard to hook 860 rwhp on Kumhos and warm roads. Those are the times you think, "I've got enough power". But there are definitely times when I wish I had more.
You've got a bad ass, custom painted, wide body, one of a kind Street Serpent. It needs to have as much "go" as it does "show". I'd just put the damn thing in a trailer and send it to Charlotte, NC. That body, those wheels and a UGR TT kit would have your car on the front of every magazine known to man and I can't imagine a car show you couldn't win with it.

WOW... Thanks Mark. You pretty much covered all questions that I had. Your opinion means a lot because I know you have had a Roe and now a built Paxton and... YOU WANT/NEED MORE HP. I know for a fact that you drive your car everywhere. Sounds to me that as happy as you are with your Paxton, you would jump at the chance to go Twin Turbo. And thanks for the compliments on the SS.

That makes it unanimous. Every one that has a blower still wants and needs more. Even the guys with built blowers.

Guess it's a no brainer... Good, I wanted to go that way but wanted to get the opinions of the guys that have been there, done that. I have learned tons of info on this site. For all you new guys, there are some very intelligent people on here. You too will learn alot if you pay attention. After all, we drive the finest sports car in the world.

To me, the VCA forums are invaluable. Thank you.

SS TT, here we come...


Track_Day.jpg
 
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treesnake

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who is JMB????

JMB Performance & Powdercoat, LLC
These are a couple of the recent projects at JMB. Justin and Marty also do great powdercoating. If only I could get this monster turbo under a Viper hood Check the site.
You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach
 

JohnnyBravo

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Wow!! That car with a TT will be the ultimate viper.

EXACTLY!!!

Absolute show stopper!

Imagine seeing that car pull into a parking lot and watching as people are drooling all over themselves, clamoring for their cell phones and digital cameras. Inevitably, there will be one jealous ******** in the group who says something like, "yeah, but those ain't that fast".

Mike hops out, his hot wife hops out, and when the people ask, "how fast is it", Mike just tosses the dyno sheet on the dashboard, and calmly walks inside.

They all walk over to see what he put on the dashboard and when they look through the windshield, they are greeted with a 1400 rwhp dyno sheet IN THEIR FACE.

/story.
 

Dads Toy

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question please. earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that these 800rwhp+ vipers are breaking into the 9's in the 1/4. I know of a few cars on LS1tech and some local cars that run 9's with a lot less hp (around 600). Is it a traction issue that keeps these 800+ and higher hp vipers from being faster than 9's in the 1/4? I would think they should be in the 8's with all of that power if it hooks.
 

JohnnyBravo

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question please. earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that these 800rwhp+ vipers are breaking into the 9's in the 1/4. I know of a few cars on LS1tech and some local cars that run 9's with a lot less hp (around 600). Is it a traction issue that keeps these 800+ and higher hp vipers from being faster than 9's in the 1/4? I would think they should be in the 8's with all of that power if it hooks.

There are a lot of things at play here. First, most people who take their Viper to the track (as opposed to an LSx) don't have full drag suspension. My suspension is bone stock, vintage 1998. No eibachs, no coilovers, no aftermarket sway bars, no ladder bars, no k-members, or any of the other stuff that the Mustand/F-body crew usually do to their cars.

Second, I have yet to see many, if any, "lightened" Vipers. All the guys I know who run F-body cars do a lot of weight reduction in addition to the suspension stuff.

Third, Vipers are 6-speeds. The fastest F-bodies are almost always automatics. Automatics tend to get down the quarter mile a little faster and a little more consistently.

With a lighter weight car, a Penske suspension, and an automatic, I'm sure you'd see LOTS more Vipers in the 9's and 8's. But speaking for myself, my car runs full weight, full IRS, a factory 6-speed transmission with bone stock suspension and runs 9's all day long. Could it go faster by changing things? Sure. Do I want to change any of those things? No. Are there many f-body cars running full weight, stock suspension and manual transmissions in the 9's? No.

Just my $.02
 

PJJP

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I have had both the paxton and the tt. The tt is way better but costs more. I wish I would have just done it 'all-the-way' the first time.
 
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treesnake

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EXACTLY!!!

Absolute show stopper!

Imagine seeing that car pull into a parking lot and watching as people are drooling all over themselves, clamoring for their cell phones and digital cameras. Inevitably, there will be one jealous ******** in the group who says something like, "yeah, but those ain't that fast".

Mike hops out, his hot wife hops out, and when the people ask, "how fast is it", Mike just tosses the dyno sheet on the dashboard, and calmly walks inside.

They all walk over to see what he put on the dashboard and when they look through the windshield, they are greeted with a 1400 rwhp dyno sheet IN THEIR FACE.

/story.

:hahaup: :lmao: :hahaup::lmao::D

OMG... After reading that, I want to start right now. Better yet, I wish I was finished to live that scenario...

Mark, Knowing what profession your in and your obvious way with words, I'll bet you kick asp. on the job.

Thanks again ...:lmao:
 
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treesnake

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I have had both the paxton and the tt. The tt is way better but costs more. I wish I would have just done it 'all-the-way' the first time.

Thanks "PJJP" for your opinion ... (another "killer" looking car BTW... Love those wheels. I will have these on mine soon, w/ blk ctr)

wheels.jpg


Looks like once you go TT, you don't look back.
 

Dads Toy

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thanks for the reply JohnnyBravo,

I am in no way trying to put down my dream car. Just was asking a question. from what I have read, there are many guys/girls on this board who are into racing. I would of thought that they would of had to build up their suspension, transmission and rear end to handle all of that extra power that these cars put out or if they seriously jumped on it a few times at the track with some sticky tires they would of broken the weakest link by now.

again thanks for the reply.
 

SquadX

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It still seems like the original question was not answered and one I am curious about myself. Which is faster from a roll if bot cars have the same power. Everyone seems to always compare the two but the TT car is always making more power.

I understand if you have the money, etc. the turbo is the way to go because it makes more power and has over benefits. But if we compare a CPE TT kit making 750rwhp and a paxton making 750rwhp which wins. I hears paxton pulls similar to turbos that why I excluded the roe. But comparing same power output which is faster from a dig, and rolls from 30,60,90. I dont understand what the point of comparing two vipers with different power levels...the one making more power is going to be faster if all things are identical but power.

How do things compare when you flip it. A 900rwhp UR paxton against a 750rwhp CPE? Just trying to get an answer to the question without giving one car the power advantage.

But yes i agress, if you have the money, do TT.
 

2MANYTOYS

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Hope you got my PM. Thanks a million for the offer to discuss with me. Unfortunately, I didn't get home until late last night. Please let me know if you have another free minute and I will contact you...:2tu:


Yes I got it. Call anytime you like.:2tu:
 

2MANYTOYS

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EXACTLY!!!

Absolute show stopper!

Imagine seeing that car pull into a parking lot and watching as people are drooling all over themselves, clamoring for their cell phones and digital cameras. Inevitably, there will be one jealous ******** in the group who says something like, "yeah, but those ain't that fast".

Mike hops out, his hot wife hops out, and when the people ask, "how fast is it", Mike just tosses the dyno sheet on the dashboard, and calmly walks inside.

They all walk over to see what he put on the dashboard and when they look through the windshield, they are greeted with a 1400 rwhp dyno sheet IN THEIR FACE.

/story.


His would be badass. But your's with those 17's is the ****:lmao::lmao::omg:
 

eucharistos

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There are a lot of things at play here. First, most people who take their Viper to the track (as opposed to an LSx) don't have full drag suspension. My suspension is bone stock, vintage 1998. No eibachs, no coilovers, no aftermarket sway bars, no ladder bars, no k-members, or any of the other stuff that the Mustand/F-body crew usually do to their cars.

Second, I have yet to see many, if any, "lightened" Vipers. All the guys I know who run F-body cars do a lot of weight reduction in addition to the suspension stuff.

Third, Vipers are 6-speeds. The fastest F-bodies are almost always automatics. Automatics tend to get down the quarter mile a little faster and a little more consistently.

With a lighter weight car, a Penske suspension, and an automatic, I'm sure you'd see LOTS more Vipers in the 9's and 8's. But speaking for myself, my car runs full weight, full IRS, a factory 6-speed transmission with bone stock suspension and runs 9's all day long. Could it go faster by changing things? Sure. Do I want to change any of those things? No. Are there many f-body cars running full weight, stock suspension and manual transmissions in the 9's? No.

Just my $.02

thanks for the reply JohnnyBravo,

I am in no way trying to put down my dream car. Just was asking a question. from what I have read, there are many guys/girls on this board who are into racing. I would of thought that they would of had to build up their suspension, transmission and rear end to handle all of that extra power that these cars put out or if they seriously jumped on it a few times at the track with some sticky tires they would of broken the weakest link by now.

again thanks for the reply.

good Q & A

watch (& listen to) this vid:

http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/620302-video-7-52-189-10mph-drs.html

:drive: :omg: :omg: :omg: :drive:
('cept no shifting)
 
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treesnake

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Have you seen "Vegas'" car? He is using a Sequential (sp?) trans. It is the best of both worlds as far as transmissions for big hp. It is the latest technology. Not a lot of them out there. Very Expensive set up. I have been quoted at around $20K

I will be using a "built" 6 speed trans. by "G- Force" racing.
 

repiv

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thanks for the reply JohnnyBravo,

I am in no way trying to put down my dream car. Just was asking a question. from what I have read, there are many guys/girls on this board who are into racing. I would of thought that they would of had to build up their suspension, transmission and rear end to handle all of that extra power that these cars put out or if they seriously jumped on it a few times at the track with some sticky tires they would of broken the weakest link by now.

again thanks for the reply.

the strength of the individual IRS components isn't the issue, its the IRS itself. there are plenty of billet or heavy duty drivetrain/suspension pieces.
 

repiv

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It still seems like the original question was not answered and one I am curious about myself. Which is faster from a roll if bot cars have the same power. Everyone seems to always compare the two but the TT car is always making more power.

I understand if you have the money, etc. the turbo is the way to go because it makes more power and has over benefits. But if we compare a CPE TT kit making 750rwhp and a paxton making 750rwhp which wins. I hears paxton pulls similar to turbos that why I excluded the roe. But comparing same power output which is faster from a dig, and rolls from 30,60,90. I dont understand what the point of comparing two vipers with different power levels...the one making more power is going to be faster if all things are identical but power.

How do things compare when you flip it. A 900rwhp UR paxton against a 750rwhp CPE? Just trying to get an answer to the question without giving one car the power advantage.

But yes i agress, if you have the money, do TT.

I am not sure how many "lower" HP TT cars are out there, thats probably why you're not going to get a response relative to the question.
 

PJJP

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treesnake, I have been wanting to see those wheels in a blue/black combo. It is going to look killer.
 
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treesnake

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This was sent to me by Justin at JMB; (the guy that will be building my car)

"
A 800WHP TT vs. 800WHP Paxton, any race longer than 2-3 seconds its going
to be the TT as the winner, simply because a TT will make gobs more
midrange TQ than the paxton. Example: Turbo SRT truck (pic above) on low boost made about
700whp/830WTQ, a paxton would be about 700WHP/650WTQ. The reason is a
paxton keeps increasing boost all the way to redlien, and a turbo makes
all its boost and holds it there from ~3500 RPM on (as an example). So a
15psi paxton makes about 8#'s at 3500rpm, and a 15psi TT makes 15psi at
the same rpm.

The other two big advantages are no belt slipping BS, broken belts, etc.
A paxton belt is a maintenance item, its not set and forget. The other is
boost control, with a TT you can have 700whp in 1st gear, 800 in 2nd gear,
1000 in 3rd, 1300+ in 4th, etc.
Not possible with a paxton without a
$1000 extra for a boost controller and it wont work near as well as a BC
will on the TT systems they are designed for (it wastes efficiency, so the
motor has to still work 800whp hard to only make 600whp) To change boost
on a paxton requires pulley changes, longer or shorter belts, etc.
Basically a 800whp paxton car will always make that much power no matter
if your in 1st or 5th gear.

In your case IMO, no question go with the TT


The section I highlighted in red is huge IMO. That technology alone will help make the car more manageable.
 

pteam

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with my car at 683 rwhp (803 hp at the crank) I was spinning in all 4 gears with ps2s on the drag strip. It was scary, it was hard to keep it going straight and I couldn't make it to redline in most gears without losing traction. Any more horsepower than that you'll need full slicks at any track and street driving will be not be viable if your going to floor it. I can floor it on the street but not redline to redline in gears mostly for bursts. You need to decide if this is a "track only" car. It sounds like its not. If its not, then go with the SC and save half the money.
 
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treesnake

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with my car at 683 rwhp (803 hp at the crank) I was spinning in all 4 gears with ps2s on the drag strip. It was scary, it was hard to keep it going straight and I couldn't make it to redline in most gears without losing traction. Any more horsepower than that you'll need full slicks at any track and street driving will be not be viable if your going to floor it. I can floor it on the street but not redline to redline in gears mostly for bursts. You need to decide if this is a "track only" car. It sounds like its not. If its not, then go with the SC and save half the money.

Like I highlighted in red above, I plan to use the AEM to control hp until I can use it. Have you driven a car with a Quaiffe diff.? Night/day difference from stock as far as traction and control. What gears are you running? Did you lower your tire pressure? These are a few of the things I changed on my S/C 01 and it made a big difference.

It really isn't a question about how much hp I want, its about the most efficient way to use the hp. After all 800 hp is 800 hp. The car doesn't know if the 800 is coming from a TT or S/C right???... Apparently WRONG

I KNOW I NEED at least 800+ hp.:D And according to the previous posts' there area lot of people that own and drive 800+ hp cars. My deduction is that to do this right, you need to be using the latest computer technology and all the latest supporting equipment/parts to run these cars.

Basically, Do it right or don't do it at all.

Best of all, It sounds like a lot of fun. I can't wait... :panic:
 

2MANYTOYS

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with my car at 683 rwhp (803 hp at the crank) I was spinning in all 4 gears with ps2s on the drag strip. It was scary, it was hard to keep it going straight and I couldn't make it to redline in most gears without losing traction. Any more horsepower than that you'll need full slicks at any track and street driving will be not be viable if your going to floor it. I can floor it on the street but not redline to redline in gears mostly for bursts. You need to decide if this is a "track only" car. It sounds like its not. If its not, then go with the SC and save half the money.


A Quaiffe will make a huge difference. I had a paxton setup around a 1000rwhp and NO quaiffe. It was scary at best. Since I added the Quaiffe the car stays a lot more in line and I am running 1200 whp now.:D
 

black mamba1

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Hey guys! Its been a while since I have been posting in the forum. I am in real estate and mortgages (which went from sugar to sh*t lickity split) to I have been trying to keep my head above water during the financial turmoil

This TT vs Paxton, and Roe vs Paxton is the most hotly debated issue from a performance standpoint in this forum. I have debated which way to go on this issue for years and I have numerous threads on the subject. It boils down to this:

What are you going to use the car for? For one, there is almost no limit to how much horsepower your Viper can make if you are willing to spend the money. Ok, it wont make infinite power, but there are guys who have made over 1500 hp in these cars. Sounds good on a dyno, but actually driving and maintaining a car like that will probably be a nightmare. Technology is heading towards awd and traction control to get power to the ground. There is a guy in this forum w/ a GT-R that is running 11.12 in the 1/4. That kicks the snot out of the Zr-1 and the Ferrari Fiorina. Now, there are many guys saying, "you will get used to this and you will get used to that...hell, if you put a rocket engine on your Viper you would eventually get used to that too.

Lets think about what the Viper was built for. It was built to dominate road races. That is why the ACR has the world record at the Gring for production cars. if you want to dominate road races, you should stay n/a and avoid the heat of forced induction. Go w/ Tators n/a engine build and you will have more power than the Gen 4. Throw on some 3:33's, and you will run low 11's and high 10's. If you want to dominate EVERY roll on in street battles in Mexico you should go TT. Now, you must make sure you have a good TT tech nearby, b/c there are few people that can work on a TT Viper. From a forced induction standpoint, TT is the way to go performance wise. A 800 rwhp TT will kick the sh*t out of a 800 rwhp Paxton. B/c of the area under the curve. Remember, most of the Paxtons power comes on later in the power band, so 800 rwhp might not occur until you are at redline, whereas the TT will be making 800 rwhp at 3500 rpm, in other words, the TT will walk the Paxton. Forced induction cars dont do well in road races due to the continuous build up of heat and the extra weight in the nose. A 600-650 rwhp n/a Viper is invincible on a road coarse.

So, if you are going to do closed track races, stay n/a. If you are the weekend warrior type that races everything that pulls up next to you...like me, go TT. The only reason to go Paxton is to save money, and more people can work on it.

There is also the safety issue. I street race (in Mexico) alll the time. My car w/ its cream puff rwhp scares the sh*t out of me on numerous occasions. But understand, we are talking wicked power here. We Viper guys sneeze at 500 to 600 rwhp....we are the only sports car guys doing that. Most sports cars drool at that kind of power. Listen to me, I love all these guys in here, but some of these guys are downright crazy, straight up. To have a Viper break loose at 120 mph in 4th gear is NOT COOL, and once you cross the 750 rwhp threshold, you are going to have a car that is difficult to drive on the street. Yes, you can invest in a new suspension and slick-like tires and you can master the fishtailing of a 800 rwhp Viper. But if you are stock now...I dont recommend jumping up to 950 rwhp TT Viper.

If you are a power hound, increase the power in increments. Go TT and detune or use AEM to limit the power until you master the handling of the car. If you want a road race warrior, stay n/a and go w/ Tators upgrade. It boils down to a balance of power, what you want to use the car for, and common sense.

With my cream puff power, I am undefeated for the 2.5 yrs I have had my car...but I am not in South Florida or in CA where I know there are some f/i cars that have crazy power. If you can be king of the hill at 600 rwhp in your neck of the woods, save your money and dont get a TT, call Chuck Tator and set up an appointment. You will be happy that you did.:2tu:
 

2MANYTOYS

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Hey guys! Its been a while since I have been posting in the forum. I am in real estate and mortgages (which went from sugar to sh*t lickity split) to I have been trying to keep my head above water during the financial turmoil

This TT vs Paxton, and Roe vs Paxton is the most hotly debated issue from a performance standpoint in this forum. I have debated which way to go on this issue for years and I have numerous threads on the subject. It boils down to this:

What are you going to use the car for? For one, there is almost no limit to how much horsepower your Viper can make if you are willing to spend the money. Ok, it wont make infinite power, but there are guys who have made over 1500 hp in these cars. Sounds good on a dyno, but actually driving and maintaining a car like that will probably be a nightmare. Technology is heading towards awd and traction control to get power to the ground. There is a guy in this forum w/ a GT-R that is running 11.12 in the 1/4. That kicks the snot out of the Zr-1 and the Ferrari Fiorina. Now, there are many guys saying, "you will get used to this and you will get used to that...hell, if you put a rocket engine on your Viper you would eventually get used to that too.

Lets think about what the Viper was built for. It was built to dominate road races. That is why the ACR has the world record at the Gring for production cars. if you want to dominate road races, you should stay n/a and avoid the heat of forced induction. Go w/ Tators n/a engine build and you will have more power than the Gen 4. Throw on some 3:33's, and you will run low 11's and high 10's. If you want to dominate EVERY roll on in street battles in Mexico you should go TT. Now, you must make sure you have a good TT tech nearby, b/c there are few people that can work on a TT Viper. From a forced induction standpoint, TT is the way to go performance wise. A 800 rwhp TT will kick the sh*t out of a 800 rwhp Paxton. B/c of the area under the curve. Remember, most of the Paxtons power comes on later in the power band, so 800 rwhp might not occur until you are at redline, whereas the TT will be making 800 rwhp at 3500 rpm, in other words, the TT will walk the Paxton. Forced induction cars dont do well in road races due to the continuous build up of heat and the extra weight in the nose. A 600-650 rwhp n/a Viper is invincible on a road coarse.

So, if you are going to do closed track races, stay n/a. If you are the weekend warrior type that races everything that pulls up next to you...like me, go TT. The only reason to go Paxton is to save money, and more people can work on it.

There is also the safety issue. I street race (in Mexico) alll the time. My car w/ its cream puff rwhp scares the sh*t out of me on numerous occasions. But understand, we are talking wicked power here. We Viper guys sneeze at 500 to 600 rwhp....we are the only sports car guys doing that. Most sports cars drool at that kind of power. Listen to me, I love all these guys in here, but some of these guys are downright crazy, straight up. To have a Viper break loose at 120 mph in 4th gear is NOT COOL, and once you cross the 750 rwhp threshold, you are going to have a car that is difficult to drive on the street. Yes, you can invest in a new suspension and slick-like tires and you can master the fishtailing of a 800 rwhp Viper. But if you are stock now...I dont recommend jumping up to 950 rwhp TT Viper.

If you are a power hound, increase the power in increments. Go TT and detune or use AEM to limit the power until you master the handling of the car. If you want a road race warrior, stay n/a and go w/ Tators upgrade. It boils down to a balance of power, what you want to use the car for, and common sense.

With my cream puff power, I am undefeated for the 2.5 yrs I have had my car...but I am not in South Florida or in CA where I know there are some f/i cars that have crazy power. If you can be king of the hill at 600 rwhp in your neck of the woods, save your money and dont get a TT, call Chuck Tator and set up an appointment. You will be happy that you did.:2tu:


I agree with a lot of what your saying except for the part about "if you have over 750 the car will be difficult to drive" My car currently sits at 1200 whp and it is not difficult to drive. If I had to put a % loss of drivability to my car it would be less than 5%.
 
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