New fuel economy standards...

Martin · May 19, 2009

I'm listening to Obama's speech on the new CAFE standards that raise the car manufacturer's average economy for their fleet to 35 MPG. How in the heck is a car like Viper going to survive under the ownership of any manufacturer that doesn't have a whole slew of high-efficiency vehicles in its lineup? I'm hoping there is some fine-print that makes this only apply to the big manufacturers and not the 'boutique' manufacturers who only make a thousand or so cars a year. Anyone know what's up with that?

OzeViper · May 19, 2009

I was wondering about this myself.

Donuts4me9 · May 19, 2009

How is ANY truck or sports car even going to come close to this??? Even my little c230 Benz with a 4-****** doesn't get 27MPG on the highway.

bluesrt · May 19, 2009

whats up with that is every thats old is new again,hemi superbird-gm ls-6..here we go again 40 years later

dave6666 · May 19, 2009

bluesrt said:
whats up with that is every thats old is new again,hemi superbird-gm ls-6..here we go again 40 years later

Huh?

Lawrenzo · May 19, 2009

I have a feeling that we are going to see many more 7 speed automatic transmissions. They can make the top gears double and triple overdrive so that the gas mileage jumps.

dave6666 · May 19, 2009

Lawrenzo said:
I have a feeling that we are going to see many more 7 speed automatic transmissions. They can make the top gears double and triple overdrive so that the gas mileage jumps.

But can they do that and maintain any semblance of performance?

Reality is though that it might just make the value of ours go up as the penalty to buy a new on - guzzler tax - goes way up too.

bluesrt · May 19, 2009

ok to put it better,in america you will see the heavy hp cars not being built,cost is too much to keep the killer power and get the fuel milage up their.just my theory--

dave6666 · May 19, 2009

bluesrt said:
ok to put it better,in america you will see the heavy hp cars not being built,cost is too much to keep the killer power and get the fuel milage up their.just my theory--

The SEMA guys are probably licking their chops over this. They only have to meet the standard while still parked on the lot right...?

Dads Toy · May 19, 2009

this was posted on other sites. I bought a 2007 vette last month. don't beat me up please. I went out last night and took a 50-60 mile trip and kept it at 60mph. 6 speed auto and 2.56 gears got me 34.5mpg according to the mpg calculator. normal driving I get 29-32mpg. my car is doing 1100 rpm at 60 mph. 35 mpg can be done with an efficient motor and good gearing. not sure how they calculate the mpg that is shown on new car stickers.

bluesrt · May 19, 2009

just think the partys over,just like the late 70 and into the 90-s- those sports cars were a joke- the government does not want them,there is allways a way to figure a way around,but under what pricetag for the (new upcoming standards)

RMBSRT · May 19, 2009

Why would any company buy the viper assets with this on the horizon? Are there exemptions for smaller car makers?

These rules will certainly kill the V10. How about a Viper with a twin turbo, direct injected in-line 4 cylinder?

bluesrt · May 19, 2009

RMBSRT said:
Why would any company buy the viper assets with this on the horizon? Are there exemptions for smaller car makers?

These rules will certainly kill the V10. How about a Viper with a twin turbo, direct injected in-line 4 cylinder?

they would have to call the tt a piper :rolaugh:

Tim · May 19, 2009

My 69 Charger with a 383 got 20 mpg at 65 mph, my 70 Chrysler 300 with a 440 got 20 mpg at 70 mph, my old 78 GMC ¾ ton 4*4 with a 350 got 17+ mpg at 65 mph, my old 96 Dodge Diesel got 27+mpg at 70 mph.

Now we are 30+ years later with smaller vehicles that can carry ½ the people that can barley manage 25 mpg. The new Diesels are also going the way we went in the 70’s and burning more fuel and struggling to get 17 mpg. It seems like we can make them cleaner burning by burning more fuel but it is a struggle to get the MPG up. Burn more fuel and its cleaner or burn less fuel and have better fuel economy. We can’t seem to do 2 things at once. Even some of the new big cruising motor cycles have troubles getting over 25 mpg. Unless there is a major step change in technology or we are all driving Smart Cars (and it won’t be me) this will be interesting. If we are ever in a wreck in one of these smart cars just see how smart we really are……..

Switching to electric power and having to burn coal, natural gas or oil to power the grid there are going to be emissions and we will still be at the mercy of the Oil Companies and the electric bills will go through the roof. Sure Nuclear power will be an option but who wants one of those in their back yard? Here in Alberta we have the Oil Company pushing to put in a Nuclear plant to keep their costs down in the Heavy Oil Development with the excess power going into the grid. Rest assured it won’t be any cheaper and in the long run it will cost more.

One way or another we will be paying and there will be emissions……..

Yellow32 · May 19, 2009

Presumedly there would still be a "gas guzzler tax" as there is now for noncomplying vehicles.

Note that the manufacturer is responsible for paying the gas guzzler tax and not the consumer (Dodge just happens to show it on the window sticker but that's only because they are passing the cost 100% on to the purchaser).

So, this would not seem to be an obstacle unless the "tax" is super excessive (like 10s of thousands of dollars).

And, BHO's plan isn't really anything at all, it is just a stepped up timetable of what Bush signed into law Dec 2007, accelerated by 4 years. And even at that it isn't something he can do on his own, Congress needs to put their wet noodles on it and who knows how sideways it will go then (or go no where).

-J

Martin · May 19, 2009

Tim said:
My 69 Charger with a 383 got 20 mpg at 65 mph, my 70 Chrysler 300 with a 440 got 20 mpg at 70 mph, my old 78 GMC ¾ ton 4*4 with a 350 got 17+ mpg at 65 mph, my old 96 Dodge Diesel got 27+mpg at 70 mph.

Now we are 30+ years later with smaller vehicles that can carry ½ the people that can barley manage 25 mpg. The new Diesels are also going the way we went in the 70’s and burning more fuel and struggling to get 17 mpg. It seems like we can make them cleaner burning by burning more fuel but it is a struggle to get the MPG up. Burn more fuel and its cleaner or burn less fuel and have better fuel economy. We can’t seem to do 2 things at once. Even some of the new big cruising motor cycles have troubles getting over 25 mpg. Unless there is a major step change in technology or we are all driving Smart Cars (and it won’t be me) this will be interesting. If we are ever in a wreck in one of these smart cars just see how smart we really are……..

Switching to electric power and having to burn coal, natural gas or oil to power the grid there are going to be emissions and we will still be at the mercy of the Oil Companies and the electric bills will go through the roof. Sure Nuclear power will be an option but who wants one of those in their back yard? Here in Alberta we have the Oil Company pushing to put in a Nuclear plant to keep their costs down in the Heavy Oil Development with the excess power going into the grid. Rest assured it won’t be any cheaper and in the long run it will cost more.

One way or another we will be paying and there will be emissions……..

One of the problems is that, with the reformulated gas, there is less energy content in a gallon of gas than there was back when we were burning 'real gasoline'. Another is the way they do the tests - it is a supposed accurate representation of how the typical driver operates a car. The jury is still out on that one...

01sapphirebob · May 19, 2009

I believe with new ownership they can apply to be exempt from the CAFE standards considering they would still only build about 1200-1500 units a year. I am assuming of course.

Kevan · May 19, 2009

RMBSRT said:
These rules will certainly kill the V10. How about a Viper with a twin turbo, direct injected in-line 4 cylinder?

bluesrt said:
they would have to call the tt a piper

The engine in the M4S (circa 1987) was an I-4 with a pair of hairdryers.
Spit out something like 700 HP.

OzeViper · May 19, 2009

just another reason for me not to take a day off untill I get my viper

then I'll have 2 things the democrats dont want me to have, a dream machine and a hand gun

Fatboy 18 · May 19, 2009

Whats Fuel economy :dunno:

Is that something poor people do?

Kevan · May 19, 2009

Some interesting reading:

Corporate Average Fuel Economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Given, it's Wiki....so...plan on some alarmist interjection sprinkled throughout)

Good job, BHO! You did exactly what GWB did, but a year and a half later! You're gettin' the hang of this whole chief executive thing!

To be fair, BHO is calling for the raising of the CAFE standard by 0.5 MPG, and cut the timeline in half.
I mean, Detroit doesn't have enough problems as is.

Maybe he missed that memo.
Seems to be a lot of that in DC lately.

eucharistos · May 19, 2009

OzeViper said:
just another reason for me not to take a day off untill I get my viper

then I'll have 2 things the democrats dont want me to have, a dream machine and a hand gun

hand gun without ammo is a stone

but you're on the right track :2tu:

Lawrenzo · May 20, 2009

eucharistos said:
hand gun without ammo is a stone

but you're on the right track

Just like a Viper without high octane gas is just a lump.

plumcrazy · May 20, 2009

i think i read somewhere how the MPG standards were really gonna hurt the car manufacturers. something about toling up and so quickly.

isnt this just gonna cripple them now ? assuming it is HALF the time now they have to do it...

makes no sense to me

i hate tree huggers

Chuck 98 RT/10 · May 20, 2009

Kevan said:
Good job, BHO! You did exactly what GWB did, but a year and a half later!

Almost everything he is doing is just an extension of Bush policies. The only difference is Bush was hated for doing the things Barack is loved for. I am as equally aggravated at the voters as I am the government.

Ulysses · May 20, 2009

By raising the average MPG, the government will be reducing a huge revenue stream in gas taxes. This will result in possibly higher gas taxes or some other tax to make up the difference. The claim of saving money to the consumer is false!!!

This MPG initiative also ties in a NATIONAL emissions cap. Think about it, NATIONAL. The states currently hold that decision. They sell this to you as a way of bettering the environment because who doesn't want that? Scratch off another power stripped from the states, comrades.

bluesrt · May 20, 2009

i said before and ill say it again-we need to start a ralley(sweaty teddy for pres) he will solve it all!!!! :headbang:

dave6666 · May 20, 2009

Sweaty teddy? I've found a few of those lying around the house before, but would we want our prez wearing one? :crazy2:

bluesrt · May 20, 2009

you know who i mean u bonehead!

tennis tom · May 20, 2009

Martin said:
I'm listening to Obama's speech on the new CAFE standards that raise the car manufacturer's average economy for their fleet to 35 MPG. How in the heck is a car like Viper going to survive under the ownership of any manufacturer that doesn't have a whole slew of high-efficiency vehicles in its lineup? I'm hoping there is some fine-print that makes this only apply to the big manufacturers and not the 'boutique' manufacturers who only make a thousand or so cars a year. Anyone know what's up with that?

I'm glad I've got my 2008 Viper and my Jeeps becuase vehicles like them will will be few and far between in the forseeable future. Jeeps are aero-dynamicly bricks on wheels and will not ever get that MPG, even the Mini-Moke couldn't do that.

What I'm more concerned about is the social-psycho aspects of what's being handed down to us by DC and thaat's not Daimler-Chrysler but maybe what we have is Daimler Columbia now.. SUV's have been demonized for some years now--Hummers being torched by radical environmentalists on dealer lots--that's good for the ozone layer now isn't it?

We have an auto industry on it's death bed, so what does DC do to help and I don't mean Daimler Chrysler but maybe we have Daimler Columbia now--it burdens it even more with a new set of unobtainable CAFE standards--accept by FIAT 500's. In the name of diversity, we will have one world and one car--that being the golf-cart, with variations, to suit individual tastes. Where will Madonna and Angelina Jolie stick their broods when they go shopping at the Malibu Mall?

The groundwork is being layed for class war-fare between the have's and have nots. I'm glad I got mine, now I hope I can on to it. It's a shame others will more than like;y not have a choice to buy an affordable American supercar.

(end of rant)

New fuel economy standards...

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