Track Tires and Wheels

Rednels · Jul 16, 2009

Well, after attending 4 track days in the last month or so, Im now addicted. Sadly, my stock PS2 tires are corded after only 4 track days.

This is going to be really expensive. I want to get an extra set of wheels to put r compund tires on. Im hoping to find a good supply of used rubber for tracking.

What size wheels do I need to get to have the best chance of finding used race tires to fit? (it seems that my stock 08 wheels sizes arent that common)

Also, what race tires would you guys reccomend? V710s, R6s, or something else?

I need all the help I can get becaue at 1600 a set, I cant afford new tires every 4 track days.

Thanks,
Eddie

ACRBruce · Jul 16, 2009

I'm running SSR's in 18's w/ Khumo V700's in 305/335. Do a search around here and you'll dig up tons of information.
I'm thinking of going full DOT slicks next time around though but not sure if I want to go the Hoosier R6 or the Khumo V710's route. I ran a set of V710's on an autox car a while back and it lasted about 75 runs, and that's about less than two hours of driving but since Khumo only make one dry DOT semi slick, I wonder if anyone is using these tires for both autox and track? BTW the V710 come in 305/345 18's, perfect for my Gen 4.

Rednels · Jul 17, 2009

So the 18" wheels fit a gen IV?

rcl4668 · Jul 17, 2009

Rednels said:
So the 18" wheels fit a gen IV?

They will fit with a $75 e-brake relocation kit which you can get from Parts Rack.

Just a question: How many track days totalhave you done? If you've done four so far, you might want to think about sticking with a street tire for now as opposed to going the R-compound route. R-compounds generally give you less feedback when they are are at or beyond the limit of grip compared to street tires. R-compounds also mean that you will just be going that much faster when something goes wrong.

On the other hand, if you are a veteran with several track days under your belt, then go for it.

/Rich

fireball · Jul 17, 2009

Parts Rack has everything you need - including excellent prices. He can certainly lower your tire replacemnts costs.

If you have access to the Grail Trail Herb has a little bit to say about wheel sizes. Check out a thread called 'Wheel Diameter Question'.

One more thing. Nothing will extend tire life as well as a good alignment. Make sure you have an alignment that is favourable to the track - your tires will grip more and last longer. A good question to ask is what part of the tire corded first? Inside edge, outside edge?

I use a pyrometer to help me set my alignment - it's a great tool!
This one works perfectly well - Longacre Racing Online -- Online Catalog

Rednels · Jul 17, 2009

Thanks for the feedback guys. I am not an expert driver by any means. I was wanting to switch to R compounds becaue I thought they might last longer on the track than street tires.

I guess I really need to look into alignment also, both of my passenger side tires corded on the outside edge.

fireball · Jul 17, 2009

Rednels said:
Thanks for the feedback guys. I am not an expert driver by any means. I was wanting to switch to R compounds becaue I thought they might last longer on the track than street tires.

I guess I really need to look into alignment also, both of my passenger side tires corded on the outside edge.

You will double (that's a wild ass guess - used just for emphasis - but it's probably about right) your tire life if you add LOT's of negative camber. I know you'll be happy with the result. I think you did pretty good to get 4 days with a street setting. New guys to the track usually don't see a lot of wear on their first day or 2 but after that the wear starts picking up as their speed picks up.

There's a lot of threads here about wheel alignment and what is good for a track setting.

BTW, I use a track setting all the time. It works for me.

Greg

Disturbed · Jul 17, 2009

I have a set of '06 5-spoke wheels I'll let you have for 2k. They are not perfect, but you can run the R6's or PSC's with them. I've been wanting to put them in the classifieds, I just haven't been home to get the pics.

viperB · Jul 17, 2009

I have a set of 2001 stock 18 wheels i'll sell for $900.They are in great condition.

Rednels · Jul 17, 2009

rcl4668 said:
They will fit with a $75 e-brake relocation kit which you can get from Parts Rack.

/Rich

What all is involved in the ebrake relocation? is it a pain or pretty easy?

Viper X · Jul 17, 2009

E-brake relocation is an easy do it yourself mod.

Your choice of track tires will be much greater with 18 inch wheels.

I'd go 18 x 11 fronts, 18 x 13 rears. SSR's are ideal for a newbie. Call Jon B at Parts Rack.

As for tires, you can pick up used race tires from several sources. PM me and I'll send you a good contact. Ask other track guys in your area.

You will want to decide on tire sizes before having an alignment performed. Check the archives, there's a bunch of info on this. If this is a street driven car, generally, a good starting point is -2 front camber, -1 rear camber. Toe neutral or out 1mm front, in 1mm rear. Castor should be +5 or more.

You will eventually want adjustable shocks. Getting the car lower helps everything.

You will need to upgrade your brake pads.

The tracks you drive will affect tire life. Short, twisty tracks will eat up tires quicker than longer, more open tracks. The Viper is a heavy car.

Hoosier R6's will usually last 3 or 4 weekends with a proper alignment, a relatively smooth driving style, and most importantly, if you're not pushing the limits of the car and sliding it a bunch.

Someone above mentioned tire "feedback". It is always better with treaded tires. I've found that if you approach the limits of tire adhesion conservatively, i.e. don't try and over drive the car, the R6 will give you a margin of safety that the OE tires can never provide. We see way too many cars going off track every year due to poor tires, usually old run flats or PS1's.

Get in car driving instruction.

Good luck,

Dan

Janni · Jul 17, 2009

Stickier tires will not last longer - as folks have suggested here - tire management, set up, alignment, etc will be better. Stick with street tires for safety, feedback, and the learning process.

gb66gth · Jul 17, 2009

Call Jon B. at the parts rack and ask him about the Kumho Ecsta XS he's selling in OE sizes.

ACRBruce · Jul 17, 2009

gb66gth said:
Call Jon B. at the parts rack and ask him about the Kumho Ecsta XS he's selling in OE sizes.

The XS is an excellent choice as I have them on another car and they heat up real fast. But never tried them on the Viper or on a big long track so don't know how fast they get greasy.
I've been thinnking of getting custom carbon fiber wheels in 18x11 and 19x12.5 with 315-18 and 345-19 f/r XS's. The only real issue is money... sigh.... no the tires are not expensive, it is those carbon wheels that cost an arm and a leg. :crazy2:

Kai SRT10 · Jul 18, 2009

I ran on 18 inch SSR wheels and Kumho V710's today. Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the V710's (kept me sticking to the track when I thought I should be sliding,) and the SSR wheels shave a lot of weight off of the car.

rcl4668 · Jul 18, 2009

ACRBruce said:
The XS is an excellent choice as I have them on another car and they heat up real fast. But never tried them on the Viper or on a big long track so don't know how fast they get greasy.
I've been thinnking of getting custom carbon fiber wheels in 18x11 and 19x12.5 with 315-18 and 345-19 f/r XS's. The only real issue is money... sigh.... no the tires are not expensive, it is those carbon wheels that cost an arm and a leg.

I would love your impressions of the performance and durability of the carbon fiber rims. I know there have been some comcerms in the past about cracking seen in CF rims used in track applications.

Also, if anyone is interested in the Kumho Ecsta XS in the OEM 345/30/19 and 275/35/18 sizes for the Viper, please contact Jon B first before ordering.

/Rich

ACRBruce · Jul 18, 2009

Rednels said:
What all is involved in the ebrake relocation? is it a pain or pretty easy?

ＰＩＴＡ。Ｉthought I was able to do it myself but after taking the wheel off and stare at the wheel hub area for two hours, I decided the project was over my head.

Viper X · Jul 20, 2009

Hey Bruce,

You just needed the instructions and pictures.

Really, very easy, but there are a couple of tricks to it.

Dan

ACRBruce · Jul 21, 2009

Viper X said:
Hey Bruce,

You just needed the instructions and pictures.

Really, very easy, but there are a couple of tricks to it.

Dan

Now you tell me Dan, DC Performance already did the relocation for me.

Achilles99 · Jul 21, 2009

viperB said:
I have a set of 2001 stock 18 wheels i'll sell for $900.They are in great condition.

I'm not sure if the stock 18's on a gen ii will fit a gen iii, even with the parking brake relocation kit. I bought a set of gen ii ccw's, and they didn't fit the gen iii. Something weird with the offsets (this coming straight from Purner himself).

Can anyone confirm if the stock gen ii wheels will fit a gen iii/iv?

Viper X · Jul 21, 2009

Achilles99,

The Gen II ACR wheels will fit the Gen III / IV.

The others won't.

There are offset issues with the larger Gen III / IV brakes.

Dan

Shandon · Jul 21, 2009

Kai SRT10 said:
I ran on 18 inch SSR wheels and Kumho V710's today. Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the V710's (kept me sticking to the track when I thought I should be sliding,) and the SSR wheels shave a lot of weight off of the car.

"Kai" where have you been man? I wasn't sure you visited here much anymore? I always enjoyed your informative threads! Glad to see you on back here. :2tu:

Catwood · Jul 22, 2009

If you get track wheels go light. I had a set of forgeline on a gen 2 and they worked great.

I ran used Toyo's from Berget tires. $350 to $400 shipped to the house for a set of 4. I worked a deal with the local discount tire and could get them mounted and balanced for $60 as I told them I wasn't worried about a scratch or two, just don't bend it.

I'd get 3 to 6 track days out of a set with 3 to 5 sessions per day. I ran decent camber front and rear and didn't drive them on the street, well not often anyway.

It was still expensive but I had fresher tires for the track days. Personally I thought it cheaper than running a brand new tire.

Achilles99 · Jul 22, 2009

Dan - Good info to know about the ACR wheel fitment, I've always liked that look!

Catwood - Good suggestion on used tires. I think that's cheaper than the PS2 route (which MIGHT be able to last 6 track days at a much higher cost). I just need to find some used SSR's now I guess!

Cop Magnet · Jul 22, 2009

Hmmm, I have a set of SSR's in 18" that I used on my GenII. So they will fit a GenIV with brake relo? I am running Kumho 305's/335's.

Viperless · Jul 22, 2009

Cop Magnet said:
Hmmm, I have a set of SSR's in 18" that I used on my GenII. So they will fit a GenIV with brake relo? I am running Kumho 305's/335's.

Yes. I have that exact combo on my '09 right now except the tires are Hoosiers VRL's.

Viper X · Jul 22, 2009

Hey Kai,

I've run a bunch of tires at the track including Kumho Ecsta V700s, PS1s, PS2s and PS Run Flats, Hoosier R6's, Toyo RA1's & R888s, Dunlop Race and Hoosier VRL's but never the Kumho Ecsta V710s.

Just ordered a set of V710s from JonB.

How do you like them?

How many sessions do you think you'll get?

Do they compare well with any of the above tires?

Thanks,

Dan

PS Glad to see you active again.

pteam · Jul 22, 2009

Viper X, how did you like the Hoosier R6's? What would you reccommend for drag strip only rear tires?

ACRBruce · Jul 23, 2009

Viper X said:
Hey Kai,

I've run a bunch of tires at the track including Kumho Ecsta V700s, PS1s, PS2s and PS Run Flats, Hoosier R6's, Toyo RA1's & R888s, Dunlop Race and Hoosier VRL's but never the Kumho Ecsta V710s.

Just ordered a set of V710s from JonB.

How do you like them?

How many sessions do you think you'll get?

Do they compare well with any of the above tires?

Thanks,

Dan

PS Glad to see you active again.

Dan,
I ran a set of those 710's on my GT3 before but only for autox. Most of the local autox guys (national level competitors) say the Khumos last longer than the Hoosier A6's, but my set only lasted me about 80 runs at 70 second per run average. I really don't know how long they will last on the track but I guess you'll find out and be sure to let us know.

Viper X · Jul 23, 2009

pteam,

I generally like the Hoosier R6's for road race (on my ACR). They aren't as "fast" nor as "sharp" in fast transitions as VRL slicks or Dunlop slicks but they do last longer.

I'm hoping the Kumho Ecsta V-710's will last a bit longer than the R6's.

For drag tires, I run BFG drag radials (345 x 30 18) on the back of my Paxton car at the drag strip. These aren't much good on the street for handling though.

For the street, I run Nitto drag radials or Kumho Ecsta V-700s (335 x 30 x18) on the back. Both work pretty well. The Nittos ride better but I think the Kumho's are stickier when both are warm.

Some of our guys run Hoosier A6s on the rears of their higher power cars and like them. They stick pretty well and wear out pretty quickly. Don't get caught in the wet with these as they will hydroplane.

Dan

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