ACR Radiator Hose Collapse Video....

JonB · Dec 21, 2009

Important Note:

If you ask those in the know at SRT, you will find that this event has been observed, and only occurs when the T-stat is CLOSED or partially open. When the engine is at operatimg temp, there is plenty of pressure to keep the hose from deforming.

Fikse posted this same question in GRAIL TRAIL for yet another confirmation from the engineering experts. Watch There......

http://forums.viperclub.org/grail-t...houghts-acr-radiator-hose-collapse-video.html

..........and, what Doug said.....

02 Graphite GTS · Dec 21, 2009

JonB - PartsRack said:
Important Note:

If you ask those in the know at SRT, you will find that this event has been observed, and only occurs when the T-stat is CLOSED or partially open. When the engine is at operatimg temp, there is plenty of pressure to keep the hose from deforming.

Fikse, as a VCA member you might also wish to post this same question in GRAIL TRAIL for yet another confirmation from the engineering experts.

..........and, what Doug said.....

So would replacing the T-stat with a 170 t-stat help of hurt the situation??

Doug Supercharged Vipers · Dec 21, 2009

JonB - PartsRack said:
Important Note:

If you ask those in the know at SRT, you will find that this event has been observed, and only occurs when the T-stat is CLOSED or partially open. When the engine is at operatimg temp, there is plenty of pressure to keep the hose from deforming.

.... Hence, the reason I would highly doubt the event of any sort of recall whatsoever. Dodge clearly explains the vehicle's need to be fully warmed prior to any type of spirited driving. Therefore the engine's thermostat would be fully opened.

Doug Supercharged Vipers · Dec 21, 2009

02 Graphite GTS said:
So would replacing the T-stat with a 170 t-stat help of hurt the situation??

Help the cooling. Effect +/- the fuel economy.

This is entirely another subject with thermostats and fans.

TrackAire · Dec 21, 2009

Sort of makes sense about the T-stat not opening all the way due to temps..thanks to JonB for that information.

Does anyone have a GoPro type camera and small LED flashlight they can temporarly attach under the hood and go for a spirited drive, insuring the T-stat is open?

I guess that would solve the question if the hose is compressing under "real" conditions. Right now I'm starting to think it's not an issue, how else could people do very high speed runs without the car instantly overheating?

Cheers,
George

JonB · Dec 21, 2009

As far as hoaxes go, I worry more about Global Warming.

Art 138 · Dec 21, 2009

Regardless of whether the problem is driven by the T stat or not, after reving up to 6,400 (with the Mopar PCM) I watched the second pull and the hose compressed consecutively....the company should supply us with hoses(with internal spiral wires) to correct the problem....I could understand after the first pull,but that engine is damn hot and that T stat should open up quickly during the second pull.....the notion of an owner having to buy a generic hose to pull the springs out and apply it to the existing hose is absurd.....

Coloviper · Dec 21, 2009

Like the mobsters said in "Casino". He's a good kid, he would never talk but why take a chance, that's all I am sayin'.

Compress or no compress verified when T-Stat opened or closed. Known situation of hose compression is enough to warrant a fix. Such an easy fix, why not just fix it already. Why even take a chance for a bolt on replacement part. That's all I am saying, though it sounds like someone has a bad T-Stat as well.

Viper X · Dec 21, 2009

FYI, I noticed that my new 09 ACR ran pretty warm on the track back in June 2009 on warm days, so I phoned Archer Racing, a very good source for what's going on at the track with our cars.

They confirmed that more than a few ACR's were overheating on the track but weren't sure why - which concerned me.

Just a week or so later I noticed a post by Doug Levin who mentioned that the top radiator hose was collapsing on the dyno.

I put 2 and 2 together, installed a 170 T stat, a spring in the upper radiator hose I bought from NAPA along with a shroud I bought from Arrow Racing and replaced some of the coolant with water wetter and distilled water.

Took the ACR back to the track and no more running hot. Car now runs about 205 F coolant, 215 F oil temps on hot days, 95 ish when pressed on.

Would recommend the above changes to all our track guys.

Dan

Ray W · Dec 21, 2009

If you keep compressing the hose use after use. It will take less suction to collapse the hose due to weakening of the sides. So even with an open thermostat at some point the possibility of closing off the water supply to the engine exists.

bluesrt · Dec 21, 2009

everyone put a damn spring in there

02 Graphite GTS · Dec 21, 2009

So who is going to do the "Illustrated Upgrade" ?

bluesrt · Dec 22, 2009

do it yourself- for no-one-else will

THEMASH · Dec 22, 2009

02 Graphite GTS said:
So who is going to do the "Illustrated Upgrade" ?

+1

Tom F&L GoR · Dec 22, 2009

Doug Supercharged Vipers said:
Help the cooling. Effect +/- the fuel economy.

This is entirely another subject with thermostats and fans.

Viper X said:
I put 2 and 2 together, installed a 170 T stat, a spring in the upper radiator hose I bought from NAPA along with a shroud I bought from Arrow Racing and replaced some of the coolant with water wetter and distilled water.

Took the ACR back to the track and no more running hot. Car now runs about 205 F coolant, 215 F oil temps on hot days, 95 ish when pressed on.

Would recommend the above changes to all our track guys.

Dan

The 170 stat may open sooner, but can't change heat exchanger efficiency.

Water is 2X as efficient a heat transfer fluid as glycol, so that will reduce temperatures.

Please read information carefully as some coolant products are claimed to improve heat transfer while others are actually the corrosion protection additives as found in anti-freeze. For the long term, the latter is what you want.

If you can tolerate the risk of freezing, using a coolant corrosion additive (i.e. Zerex Super Coolant) and just water. It will provide much better heat transfer, can be left in the system for the same length as antifreeze, will provide equivalent protection, don't have to switch back and forth for tracks that disallow glycol... but can freeze.

AviP · Dec 22, 2009

Newport Viper said:
Recall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheap hoses! RECALL!!

ViperGeorge · Dec 23, 2009

If one were to attempt the spring fix what hose does one buy at NAPA that has the appropriately sized spring?

ViperGeorge · Dec 23, 2009

Doug Supercharged Vipers said:
Some time ago, I had mentioned the hoses were in fact collapsing. In theory, the water is not being "compressed," rather it's being "displaced." Without going into full detail (and everyone running out to purchase internal springs, caps, etc...), here's what needs to happen:

The cars are being tested on a dyno; a "controlled environment." The dyno's "stand-in" external fan is being placed in front of the car to cool the radiator's water causing the vehicle's cooling system thermostat to close. We need to test with a "restricter" instead of a thermostat which will represent full flow at operating temperature to help gather more viable data.

Sincerely,
Doug Levin

Doug,

Without a camera pointing at the hose when the car is on the track how do we know its not collapsing there as well? One of the posters said that it happened on his second pull. It would seem the engine was plenty warm after the first pull. I know mine is when I've dyno'd it. Is there any harm in installing a spring in the upper hose or a properly bent section of metal pipe?

Camfab · Dec 24, 2009

Dan sounds like you put an end to the problem, except I'd be a little concerned about using water wetter. I noticed some corrosion issues with coolant use, I can only imagine the issue would be exaggerated with the water wetter. I've seen this problem on small block Chevy's in the past.

Camfab · Dec 24, 2009

gbatejan said:
Doug,

Without a camera pointing at the hose when the car is on the track how do we know its not collapsing there as well? One of the posters said that it happened on his second pull. It would seem the engine was plenty warm after the first pull. I know mine is when I've dyno'd it. Is there any harm in installing a spring in the upper hose or a properly bent section of metal pipe?

Personally I'd stay away from the metal section and just install the correct length spring.

bluesrt · Dec 24, 2009

i would not attack the problem with too much technical thinking,just do a simple spring install and forget about it-some things can be thought out with too much brainy thinking.some things need simple thinking like this problem..

ViperGeorge · Dec 24, 2009

bluesrt said:
i would not attack the problem with too much technical thinking,just do a simple spring install and forget about it-some things can be thought out with too much brainy thinking.some things need simple thinking like this problem..

Does anyone have a suggestion as to where to get the proper sized spring? I've been to my local NAPA store and they only had one hose anywhere near the size of the upper Viper hose. It had a spring but the hose wasn't that long. It had a NAPA part number 8103. Anyone have a better part number or source for the spring?

bluesrt · Dec 26, 2009

any large truck repair should have them in thier parts department,like frieghtliner or some sort like that

Flash1034 · Dec 27, 2009

So let me get this straight...instead of Dodge fixing it right, we should go out and buy a spring (from another hose) to put in there? Thats crap IMHO.

Flash

plumcrazy · Dec 27, 2009

you could just hold your breath. but in the meantime, spring it and enjoy it

Tom F&L GoR · Dec 27, 2009

I wonder if the hose was collapsing at Nurburgring or Laguna Seca?

ViperGeorge · Dec 27, 2009

This is actually quite confusing. Some posts say the hose only collapses when the thermostat is closed, indicating that the engine doesn't need the cooling. They say when the thermostat is open the hose does not collapse. If this is all true then do we actually even need the spring?

I also still contend that if the hose is collapsing and the system is full then the displaced water, from the hose collapsing, must go into the overflow tank. Did anyone notice this effect?

bluesrt · Dec 27, 2009

it really doesnt matter- a spring will definatly NOT HURT ANYTHING- i my self do not drive a track or drive my car like a scaulded dog so much as i have to worry about it- but if i did- i would spring it--

bluesrt · Dec 27, 2009

Tom said:
I wonder if the hose was collapsing at Nurburgring or Laguna Seca?

well if it was- it definatly didnt make it overheat- so maybe it wasnt. or maybe it was and it did run hotter than it should. :dunno:

pteam · Dec 27, 2009

Is this a major issue if you don't track / rarely? Wouldnt there be serious problems occurring with alot of people if this was affecting alot of people?

ACR Radiator Hose Collapse Video....

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