How do you keep the rear end at the rear?

I really want a Gen3/4 Viper, but all this Forum talk about the rear coming around with application of power is making me wonder if the power is usable. I have a grasp of the concept since I bought an 08 Z06 and now that it's broken in I do find on some occasions I have to let up on full throttle when the rear starts to go sideways @ 4000 rpm in 1st and 2nd gear after a careful initial roll on. I have only initated these exuberant runs on isolated back roads but the thought of running side by side with another car at the dragstrip seems iffy at best, and if a Viper is much worse given more torque and no nannys in place then what good is having the power if you can't use it? ( obviously I have limited experience at this sort of thing, but I have survived 20 years riding superbikes on the road with mediocre skills and mucho caution ).
I guess my question is what's the drill in making a decent run with a stock car?

DanB

The Viper is not that much more of a beast than your ZO6. Even though I am more into road course stuff than drags, but it sounds like you just need more experience at the strip. Its all about smooth application of the throttle and in a straight line the car will not come around on you.

the generation 3 is way worse than the gen 4..if you also add the motons then u will also be able to have better handling and more stable braking in extreme conditions imho

In first gear at full accelaration my 2003 is tons of fun, but full throttle acceleration in a straight line is no problem, I find where you need to be careful is comming out of corners and over accelerating, this can get you into trouble.

Blown99c5 said:

In first gear at full accelaration my 2003 is tons of fun, but full throttle acceleration in a straight line is no problem, I find where you need to be careful is comming out of corners and over accelerating, this can get you into trouble.

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Yea, what he said. Plus always wait for the tires to get warm before jumping on it.

Practice, practice, practice. And preferably in a controlled environment vs. the back roads…get a Viper, you won’t regret it.

I wish there was way to tromp the throttle in a Viper but sadly there is not. In a straight line, in 3rd gear, a 600 hp snake will come around on you unless you modulate the throttle. Takes some of the fun out of it but it puts some in as well since the guys/gals who modulate the best win. Buy a Viper, you'll love how raw it is.

In my younger years I had the good fortune to have many muscle cars from the 409's to the 454's. All with positraction and no electronic controls.

I never crashed any of them and burned up many sets of tires. It's just something you learn to control. My butt was the nanny control. I knew when and how much to counter steer or let off or add throttle. Like swimming or bicycling the skill never leaves you.

I have no concerns with the Viper but I will not let anyone else drive it.

ih4x4, I too miss those days.

Bandit3 said:

ih4x4, I too miss those days.

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Ditto, and that's why I bought a Viper in the first place!

It's the last of a it's kind, the last big power car without electro-nannies. I bet even the next generation Vipers won't be like that anymore.

I am getting ready to pull the trigger on either a 06 Viper Coupe or a 06 Z06. I really would prefer a Viper, but all this talk about the Vipers and crashing all the time makes me hesitant.

I've owned 4 cars over 500 rwhp already and used them as DD all year round. My last car was a heavily modified Shelby that put down over 600 rwhp and had massive amounts of TQ at near idle. I'm used to the cars having absolutely ZERO traction from 0 to 100, and already realize that if you punch a HIGH HP car with big TQ you will get wheel spin in almost any gear and if you do this on a turn.. the outcome isn't pretty.

My old 500 hp C5 Z06 would even get away from you if you were stupid with it, but a bit harder to do compared to other cars I have owned.

Is the Viper so much harder to control than the monsters I have already owned?

Or is the Viper crashing problem mainly lie with people who go from low HP/TQ cars and jump right into a big V10 beast?

Kinda hard to take a Viper for a test drive. Sane dealers don't let people take them for test drives.

There are only two things to know about driving a Viper.
1. Learn how to drive.
2. Don't be an idiot.

(Quote) Is the Viper so much harder to control than the monsters I have already owned?
The answer here is that the Viper has no techno nannies as other high perf. cars do like the Nissan GTR, ZO6, Porsche, Shelby, etc. to help correct your mistakes or over driving. Its also not so much about the hp but the enormous torque the Viper puts out that gets a lot of drivers in trouble. Most of the crashes you read about are from people that think they can just sit in it and drive. There is a lot of physics understanding in car control and not just putting your foot to the floor. It does take a lot of talent to drive a Viper at its limits unlike a lot of other sports cars.

The Quaife differential will work wonders for keeping the rear in the rear. Even if you do a steeper gear it will maintain a straight line so much better than stock. I would not drive mine without the Quaife IMHO. I have a 3.55 and a 3.07 in stock if you like, although not a "cheap" solution it is still cheaper than wrecking a Viper.

warm tires, and the right kind of tires. A Gen 3 with Run-Flat tires WILL get itself sideways in 1st or 2nd gear in a perfectly strait line. The run-flats seem to make the "snakebite" much less predictable and probably help with the bad rep. With PS-2 tires the Viper is much more predictable (and still brutal) and you shouldn't worry too much if you've had superbike experience.

Thanks for the replys, which seem to indicate things aren't as bad as a Viper newb reading the forums might think. My internal acceleration guage- that feeling that all the blood is being forced to the back of the brain during acceleration, is so warped by my motorcycle experience that the Z06 doesn't feel particularly "quick" in comparison but the tendency to fishtail is something new to me and kinda off putting.
Just didn't want to get a Viper and have it be significantly worse or not controllable..


DanB

I ride superbikes, too and all I can tell you is the Viper is the most fun you can have with your clothes on! The acceleration matches that of my 1000RR and the only nanny controls are between your ears and the seat of your pants.

Don't be afraid of it, but ALWAYS respect that raw power of the V10 hauling you down the road/track.

Actually, the Viper is easier than some sports cars to keep in a straight line. A Lotus or a TT RX 7 are much worse IMO. If you can drive a sports car, then don't fear a Viper. They are great daily drivers. I've had 4 of them. Just don't drink and drive or get suckered into street racing with all the idiots that want you to and you'll be just fine.

Got my GTS (first Viper for me) 2 weeks ago. I was real careful the first and second time out. Took my neighbor for a ride the third time out. I was starting to feel comfortable so I put my foot a little more than half way into it and quick shifted from 2nd to 3rd and I was sideways quicker than any of the many early muscle cars that I owned and at a higher speed. I backed off and clutched and it corrected nicely but I will be taking a lot more time to understand this car before I really start to use it.

Don't try to speed shift, get it in third smoothly, with good tires, you can slowly press to floor (don't stomp on it..in bike lingo "roll on the throttle") and have the thrill of your life. Ease it into 4th too. Be careful into 5th as you might be in 3rd by mistake. Smooth is fast. Enjoy.

mjorgensen said:

The Quaife differential will work wonders for keeping the rear in the rear. Even if you do a steeper gear it will maintain a straight line so much better than stock. I would not drive mine without the Quaife IMHO. I have a 3.55 and a 3.07 in stock if you like, although not a "cheap" solution it is still cheaper than wrecking a Viper.

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That is what the problem sounds like to me. Crappy Differential. Bunch of power going to one rear wheel = 360 degree ride into the ditch under a sudden mash of the pedal.

I rarely kept traction control on in any of my cars. With 600+ rwhp TC gets a bit overwhelmed before it makes a difference.

To be honest, I can't figure out what everyone is talking about when they say these cars are so uncontrollable. I've driven the heck out of my GTS over the past 13 or so years, and the only time it seems uncontrollable is when I've done something that I shouldn't be doing. It's not like these cars just spontaneously get a mind of their own and decide to go sideways - you really have to be driving them hard, and they do give enough notice that you can correct if you're paying attention. What I think the problem is, is that a lot of people just don't know what to do with available power and they get in over their heads. Not many people go broke by pulling off the throttle a little too soon - but plenty have broke things by hanging into the throttle too long.

Chuck 98 RT/10 said:

There are only two things to know about driving a Viper.
1. Learn how to drive.
2. Don't be an idiot.

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And follow the golden rule of Viper driving: thou shalt not floor the car unles thou is going in a straight line.

P.S. My girlfriend says ditch the Vette and get a man's cars: a Viper

Martin said:

To be honest, I can't figure out what everyone is talking about when they say these cars are so uncontrollable. I've driven the heck out of my GTS over the past 13 or so years, and the only time it seems uncontrollable is when I've done something that I shouldn't be doing. It's not like these cars just spontaneously get a mind of their own and decide to go sideways - you really have to be driving them hard, and they do give enough notice that you can correct if you're paying attention. What I think the problem is, is that a lot of people just don't know what to do with available power and they get in over their heads. Not many people go broke by pulling off the throttle a little too soon - but plenty have broke things by hanging into the throttle too long.

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I agree with you, I've only had my 06' vert since September last year and have not had any of the problems with the rear end staying put, even after a couple of encounters of the stupid kind with other drivers wanting to street race. I have felt the torque it delivers on a WOT making sure the wheels are pointed straight first. An empty parking lot was where my tire spinning sessions were done to feel the rear end come around and it whips. I have more respect for it now that I'm more familiar with it. It can bite when you least expect it if not careful.

owned a 378 rwhp vette...445 rwhp gen2 and 488 rwhp gen 3 and have been the passanger many many times in a good friends 700 rwhp supras and c6z06

even in stock form a gen 2 viper with it's 465 rwt sae at VERY low rpm's will scare the crap outta you..

Someone said a gen2 or gen3 isnt much more of a beaste than a C6Z06...This couldnt be farther from the truth..the Z06 feels like a camry compared to a gen 2 or gen 3 in the lower rpm's...It's not till around 3500 rpm's that the z06 really starts to scream.. While at only 2000 rpm's ( regular makeing a turn from a stop sighn speeds) the Viper is makeing BIG tourque.....


Someone mentiones that they have driven plenty of 500 rwhp cars...Again this is irrelavant to a viper..

A 1996 gen 2 viper may only dyno 410 rwhp sae...But it will hit 465 rwt at VERY low rpm's..

That 500 rwhp vette or camaro or what ever it was will likely only have 400 rwhp at mid range rpm's...

meaning it is MUCH MUCH easier to drive normally than a Viper...


With that said a gen3 is much more tame than a gen2..But still a lot more violant than a Z06..

A friend and I were drag raceing..At the time I was in my gen 3 and him in his gen 2..Both minor bolt ons...We switched vehicles and I nearly crapped my self with how violant the gen2 was with it's touque delivery..No holds barred tourque..Even though I had a gen2 just a year earlier,,It still almost bit me....

The guys who say it's no biggie are the guys who THINK they have their snake mastered..But every single weak another one of these rare cars ( less than 30K in the world produced)is wrecked....

Im not telling you to not get one..That tourque at such low rpm's can only be produced by the monstrous 8.xx litre engines in the Vipers...And no 7.0 litre or less engine with high 7-8K revving capabilities or 3.4-4.0 rear gears or twin turbos ect will be able to duplicate the rush you will get just putting around in first or second gear through a parking lot..The feeling of knowing you have a ********** 800 lb guirella locked in a cage and just begging for you to press the gas down a 1/2 inch..

1/4 mile times and 1/4 mph or 0-60 times just dont tell the real story...Even in the 410 rwhp and 465 rwt stock gen 2's if you could get the best slicks available and atually not break somthing and put down all the power in first gear Im sure those cars could hit 0-60 mph in under 3.5 seconds...

But the best they do is 3.8 and 4.1 is the norm..Just too much tourque..

Again im not saying dont get one..But go test drive one...Specially a gen 2 and you'll see that it all makes since...

v10enomous said:

Got my GTS (first Viper for me) 2 weeks ago. I was real careful the first and second time out. Took my neighbor for a ride the third time out. I was starting to feel comfortable so I put my foot a little more than half way into it and quick shifted from 2nd to 3rd and I was sideways quicker than any of the many early muscle cars that I owned and at a higher speed. I backed off and clutched and it corrected nicely but I will be taking a lot more time to understand this car before I really start to use it.

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Ive wrecked two vipers exactly this way..shifted into 3rg gear at 70 mph under hard acelleration and BAM..Sideways into a wall..My 99 and 2003..

Just 445 and 475 rwhp respectively but both had tourque over 500 rwt at those low rpm's

PhoenixGTS said:

P.S. My girlfriend says ditch the Vette and get a man's cars: a Viper

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Strong indication that she's a keeper.

Hence your screen name

Twister said:

Ive wrecked two vipers exactly this way..shifted into 3rg gear at 70 mph under hard acelleration and BAM..Sideways into a wall..My 99 and 2003..

Just 445 and 475 rwhp respectively but both had tourque over 500 rwt at those low rpm's

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