slipping clutch

Jay M

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I wasn't sure if it was the tires spinning or a slipping clutch.

But today, I accelerated a bit hard in 3rd gear and felt slippage and also smelled a slight burn.

Does that mean I need a new clutch? Or are you just not supposed to punch it in 3rd gear at a low speed? Or could it just need an adjustment?

while I'm sitting down... can you tell how much a new clutch is for an '04?

thanks,
~Jay
 

wikkid

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I wasn't sure if it was the tires spinning or a slipping clutch.

But today, I accelerated a bit hard in 3rd gear and felt slippage and also smelled a slight burn.

Does that mean I need a new clutch? Or are you just not supposed to punch it in 3rd gear at a low speed? Or could it just need an adjustment?

while I'm sitting down... can you tell how much a new clutch is for an '04?

thanks,
~Jay

You mean clutch or tranny. Clutch not so bad, tranny gets expensive. What would punching it in 3rd have anything to do with the clutch, if you were already in gear. Could be synchros going bad.....
 
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Jay M

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You mean clutch or tranny. Clutch not so bad, tranny gets expensive. What would punching it in 3rd have anything to do with the clutch, if you were already in gear. Could be synchros going bad.....

Isn't it the clutch that connects the transmission to the engine?

~Jay
 
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Jay M

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Leaving a stop light in traffic, about 2000 RPMs, in 3rd gear, the traffic started to speed up so I hit the gas hard, but didn't floor it and the RPMs rose but the car didn't go much faster. I eased off and the RPMs dropped to normal, and I smelled burning clutch.

~Jay
 

Viperguynick

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Getting into the throttle in a high gear at low speeds has always been a quick way of diagnosing clutch slippage. If you put it in 6th @ 50-60 MPH and go WOT, if your rev's climb faster than your speed, you need a new clutch. Of course "Need" is a relative term. As long as it's not slipping noticeably in daily driving, it could have a few thousand miles left in it, of NORMAL driving. If you drive aggressively at all, I would replace it. Once you are in gear, there's not much in the transmission that could be slipping, clutch is your most likely culprit.

:usa: Nick :usa:
 

Viperguynick

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Leaving a stop light in traffic, about 2000 RPMs, in 3rd gear, the traffic started to speed up so I hit the gas hard, but didn't floor it and the RPMs rose but the car didn't go much faster. I eased off and the RPMs dropped to normal, and I smelled burning clutch.

~Jay

Clutch it is then!

:usa: Nick :usa:
 
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Jay M

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With a healthy clutch, would it ever slip? Or would it just bog or spin the wheels?

~Jay
 

351carlo

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I wasn't sure if it was the tires spinning or a slipping clutch.

But today, I accelerated a bit hard in 3rd gear and felt slippage and also smelled a slight burn.

Does that mean I need a new clutch? Or are you just not supposed to punch it in 3rd gear at a low speed? Or could it just need an adjustment?

while I'm sitting down... can you tell how much a new clutch is for an '04?

thanks,
~Jay

Certainly sounds like a clutch that isn't too happy. Cheap way to check for certain is a dyno with a "Gear Ratio" output. If you put the car in 4th and make a pull, the "Gear Ratio" graph should be a straight line, or close to it. If the clutch is bad, you can expect the "Gear Ratio" to change drastically. Obviously your method is how we did it for years beforehand.

You mean clutch or tranny. Clutch not so bad, tranny gets expensive. What would punching it in 3rd have anything to do with the clutch, if you were already in gear. Could be synchros going bad.....

:confused: I think you're a bit confused with driveline schtuff. The synchros would be going bad if he was having trouble shifting. If the car is in gear and slipping, it's the clutch which provides the connection and has the ability to slip. The gears themselves are locked onto the shafts and just spin; if they're in, they're in.

Getting into the throttle in a high gear at low speeds has always been a quick way of diagnosing clutch slippage. If you put it in 6th @ 50-60 MPH and go WOT, if your rev's climb faster than your speed, you need a new clutch. Of course "Need" is a relative term. As long as it's not slipping noticeably in daily driving, it could have a few thousand miles left in it, of NORMAL driving. If you drive aggressively at all, I would replace it. Once you are in gear, there's not much in the transmission that could be slipping, clutch is your most likely culprit.

:usa: Nick :usa:

Yep! :2tu:
 

Canyon707

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Look at BadBoyzzGarage for a clutch. Todd's are really really good. I have one in my drag car and it is rock solid.
 

WillH2010

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You mean this


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VS this

BBG_VIPER_TWIN_AD_8-12-10_APPLLICATIONS.jpg
 

Viper X

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Jay,

You haven't told us how many miles are on the car, how it has been driven, the rwhp or mods or how you intend to use it - which are all factors.

IMHO, if the car is mostly stock up to about 600 rwhp, go to DC, get the OE LUK clutch and pp replacement set. Have them check the flywheel for hot spots and clean it up if possible, use ARP fastners, replace the T/O slave unit and pilot bushing.

Not sure what the cost will be but likely less than you think.

If you go with an aftermarket clutch, some are better than others. An aftermarket clutch which will cost a bunch more in some cases, you may experience increased pedal effort, sometimes they will chatter a bit while breaking in, and frankly they just aren't necessary in most applications.

Good luck,

Dan
 

Joseph Dell

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i thought BBG said it was a proprietary clutch.

They all say that. I did some research before I bought the RSI clutch... they have an exclusive agreement w/ the manufacturer. The support has been stellar and the clutch has handled my 1500rwhp+ beautifully.

I wouldn't be surprised if BBG ended up in a lawsuit over it... just sayin'... :dunno:
 

Canyon707

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BBG's clutch is his own clutch. He knows clutches. He had the clutch to his specs so I would call it his. It is not RSI
 

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE

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We've examined and tested several Gen 4 flywheel clutch assemblies introduced to the Viper market that have fell short of their claims. The ability to hold power is not the only deciding factor when purchasing a clutch. Drivability, chatter and clutch engagement are just as important factors when producing a top notch replacement product for the Viper. The main issues we've seen with the RPS design is as follows:

*(TEC) engine error codes which will affect the engines performance and become an intermittent nightmare. With the introduction of the CAN operation system controlling the Gen 4 Viper, TEC and misfire error codes will greatly affect the Vipers performance. All systems are linked and these CEL's can create other issues that can't be resolved.

* An extreme short 1" pedal throw which is not desirable in the Viper. This can cause racing of the engine between shifts exagerated by the drive by wire throttle response. Now you've ended up with an on and off switch for a clutch.

*Excessive chatter which is moderate at first but increases with clutch wear. This is typical in a stand driven solid puck clutch design.

We were asked by RPS to help correct and redesign their clutch package, since we were the only company able to fully performance test and critique their clutch pack with actual data. The end result was us finding the clutches limitations due to it's inherent flaw in the RPS design which based it's Viper clutch program on a Corvette clutch system, using a completely different master cylinder size and design. An unacceptable solution was proposed by the manufacturer to replace the Viper's larger master cylinder with the Corvettes inferior smaller master cylinder. This would be a fitment nightmare and would also create more heat in an already extreme environment.

This we found typical with companies who come from the Asian import markets who attempt to develope new products for American Muscle cars and assume Corvette is created equal to the Viper (It's not)..:D We have since moved on with all do respect to the mentioned company.

******

So let's move forward to what's going on at Bad Boyzz Garage today. We have had a solid working relationship with RAM Clutches since 2006 and have jointly developed and engineered the Gen 3 & Gen 4 Viper Sportsman Flywheel Clutch Assemblies shown below. RAM Clutches are highly regarded in the industry as leaders in drag racing, circle track, road racing and high performance street clutch technology and meet all motorsports sanctioning body requirements. Our replacement light weight, high torque capacity units come in 2 different configurations.

Option 1:
Viper Sportsman - Engineered for high performance street / track days, utilizing our silky smooth 300 series organic friction material with our strapped floater plate technology. This unit is for the owner that wants like stock pedal feel and clutch engagment.

Option 2:
Viper Competition - Engineered for road racing, drag strip, standing mile & auto-X, utilizing our 900 series metalic friction material with our stand driven floater plate technology. The competition units are for race teams and the serious track day warrior's who require absolute performance while still maintaining a stock like pedal feel with moderately aggressive engagement. We believe that stand driven floater plates are a must in full competition Vipers to ensure durability and longevity throughout the racing season.

These two clutches are the only true plug and play units on the market that do not throw (TEC) engine error codes and are fully SFI certified.

To date our Viper Gen 4 Competition units have run Sebring and Road Atlanta at NARA sponsored racing events and independantly at Laguna Seca with absolutely no issues. It's brother the Viper Gen 3 Competition units have run at Laguna Seca, Infineon, Thunderhill, Button Willows, Fernely NV and the Virginia City Hill Climb with great success as well.

We are also in full development and ready to release shortly our new replacement high performance release bearing & slave cylinder assembly for Gen 2-3-4 Viper transmissions. This will be the solution that many tuners and Viper owners with high performance clutch applications have been looking for. Engineered with adjustability and high pressure plate load capacity along with a much needed precision steel release bearing. Run this universal upgrade with Dodges OEM single and dual disc style clutches or with our Sportsman series.

Regarding typical daily driving, spirited track or occasional drag strip use, I can partially agree that upgrading to one of our high performance Sportsman's may not be necessary as stated by some for moderate performance applications, but until you get behind the wheel of a Gen 4-3-2 Viper with one of our light weight units and feel your V10 rev much faster than before and now you've got that competitive edge in acceleration and late braking from faster engine deceleration, you may walk away with a different opinion.

P.S. Canyon707 good luck with your Drag Racing at Infineon this year, I'll drive on down and help pit crew!!

Thanks for your consideration,


BAD BOYZZ GARAGE, INC.
Toddy

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER= :usa:









 
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351carlo

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The RSI Clutch looks like my old RPS Billet Carbon Twin. That was a STELLAR clutch and I had a great time with it. Put over 700 through it and it drove great. Never chattered, smooth engagement and a lot of fun.

Good luck!
 

RedEnuf93

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You mean clutch or tranny. Clutch not so bad, tranny gets expensive. What would punching it in 3rd have anything to do with the clutch, if you were already in gear. Could be synchros going bad.....


Synchros have nothing to do with slippage.
Slippage on 3rd gear (or higher) and punching it has everything to do with clutch.
You have left sock in right foot.:lmao:

Sounds like a wasted clutch. been there, done that, it takes only couple of hours to take it out and same to put it in. (if you are slooow):2tu:
 

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE

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I wasn't sure if it was the tires spinning or a slipping clutch.

But today, I accelerated a bit hard in 3rd gear and felt slippage and also smelled a slight burn.

Does that mean I need a new clutch? Or are you just not supposed to punch it in 3rd gear at a low speed? Or could it just need an adjustment?

while I'm sitting down... can you tell how much a new clutch is for an '04?

thanks,
~Jay


Jay,

An OEM clutch service kit should cost around $600 - $800 depending on your actual parts needed, so here's the basics:

*Clutch / Pressure Plate
*Release Bearing / Slave Cylinder
*Pilot Bearing
*Flywheel Bolts
*Dana Strap & Bolt Kit
*Mopar Trans Oil

A must is to check flywheel surface to ensure flat, if not replace. Buy new or you can replace with good quality used unit. On the market there are also options such as a light weight chromoly steel flywheels that are adverised, but keep in mind that those are Asian import flywheels. To solve this issue we are currently manufacturing our SFI certified Gen 3 light weight US steel flywheels :usa:.

Also most important is to inspect engine rear main seal because if bad or marginal this would be the time to replace. You may need to drop oil pan when replacing rear main seal, so be prepared to order a new pan gasket if necessary. Also inspect and replace if necessary transmission rear seal. Obviously servicing these additional parts will increase your parts tab$

Good luck,:2tu:

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE, INC.
Toddy
=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER= :usa:
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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Frankly, we have seen this more often than not, but why not do the first little bit of detective work first, and check your clutch fluid. You find it half way down, or done in a loverly dark black color, viola, your 04 may just need new DOT 4 fluid and a flush?

Check it out and if that is not the culprit :dunno:, there has already been plenty of good advice about the next, though more expensive steps.

Good luck!
 
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Jay M

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Thanks, I'll look at the fluid ASAP. Hopefully I didn't burn up the clutch because of low fluid.

Thanks also for all the other advice.

~Jay
 

Paul Hawker

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Jay.

If you are in the neighborhood you should swing by Dan Cragin, to have them check out your clutch slipping issue.

They have seen so many of these that they can tell you pretty quickly if it is just a brake fluid flush, or a new clutch you need.

They offer everything from OEM quality clutches to the high performance ones.

If you need a clutch, you most probably will need to have your slave cyl replaced, along with other services while you have your clutch out. These parts are pretty reasonable, and the cure is long lasting.

If you want to consider upgrading your clutch, you must spend some time talking with Toddy at Bad Boyz. Todd may talk your ear off, but he has lots of good advice, and can talk you through some of the modification/upgrade options you might wish to choose.

The OEM stuff is pretty good and robust for stock replacement, but if you are going racing, or wish something higher performance, lots of options are available.
 

tzortzViper

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Toddy, is it the chatter that makes the misfire P0300 Code come up? Or is it those extra lightweight flywheels that make it because of the lower inertia?

Your flywheel/clutch set is also lighter, but won't it also bring on the chk engine?





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