THE LAST VIPER

700 hp on pump gas with durability? You must have an engineering degree from MIT that we never knew. Even the Ferrari's have mid 600. 700 is never going to happen for political and engineering reasons. You make is sound so easy. Perhaps you should just forget law and be the head of SRT.

A drag race version should not be made under any circumstance. Wouldn't be profitable to the company. These cars are horrible at the drag strip as a dedicated drag car. Road racing is a totally different game. Hence why I said make a base model that is very mod friendly.

As far as the statement: People won't go to a tuner, that's rubbish. There are countless chevy/ford tuners in my area with cars backed out through the garages. Most people can hardly change their oil. Make it so people can throw on 3-5k worth of mods, pick up 100-150hp over factory numbers and have the ability to safely tune it, golden.

Just an opinion. I personally never keep a car stock. If we could reduce the costs of some of the mods that are done to these cars, I think we'd see more people do them.

HOLY COW! what were they thinking when they picked the colors for the interior?!?!

I believe in the skill and creativity of the SRT engineers. They are an exceptional group of car crazy individuals.They have repeatedly surprised the automotive world. Remember the "Ring" run? Do not underestimate them.

1. Herb Helbig already posted in another thread that SRT liked the drag pack idea. Keep in mind that Dodge already did it with the Challenger. Also, you might want to review the many threads and posts about drag racing on this Forum; the stats at DragTimes and the many YouTube Viper quarter mile runs. There are quite a few Vipers dedicated to drag racing in one way or another just as there are many dedicated to road racing.

2. A review of the posts over the years indicates that many Viper owners do not go to tuners. In fact I would guess that most Viper owners do not and would not due to warranty and other concerns. ( I am one of those people. All of my mods on all three stock kit supercharged SRT products have been done by a dealer.) Of course if someone wants to go beyond the relatively simple stuff, then, at least as of now, it is necessary to go to a tuner but a tuner does not have the capability of thoroughly testing his or her creation in all operational environments. This fact tends to be ignored by those doing high HP custom applications. So, what the tuner will do is leave an A/F safety margin which, hopefully, covers the bases. That's great for the relative few that want to take the risk but not for most Viper owners.

3. 700 flywheel HP may sound like alot but so did 600 a few years back - remember? The ZR1 is puting out 638 HP. If one puts the same type of twin screw supercharger system ( 4 or 5 pounds of boost at most) on the current Viper engine with forged pistons and a few other changes previously mentioned in another thread discussing this subject, 700 flywheel HP is easily achieved. It is less than a 20% increase in power. The NA route is, admittedly, a bit more complex but 700 flywheel HP is also attainable. It also should be noted that I am running more than 750 flywheel HP ( 778 at the last dyno day in January of this year) in my Woodhouse prepared car and have been for more than 18,000 miles without incident. So, it really is not much of a stretch for SRT to produce a 700 flywheel HP car that is reliable and durable.

4. Of course SRT could have the power adder as an option so that those who are intimidated by 700 flywheel HP can stay at a lesser power level.

Even the ACR X, with a non-street legal exhaust only makes 640 hp. Requiring 700 hp for the next model, with full exhaust, meeting noise requirements and gas consumption requirements does not make sense. Especiallly with the price targets and expected delivery date.

PatentLaw said:

Even the ACR X, with a non-street legal exhaust only makes 640 hp. Requiring 700 hp for the next model, with full exhaust, meeting noise requirements and gas consumption requirements does not make sense. Especiallly with the price targets and expected delivery date.

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You are underestimating the skill set of the SRT engineers and I think that you may be thinking about this on the wrong timeline. My guess would be that the moment the ZR1 power figure was known (at least by the fall of 2007 since the data was released to the public in December, 2007) that SRT started exploring a 700 HP Viper. Why? Because the history of Viper is to blow the competition away when a new generation comes out. The Z06 Vette was 505 HP when the Gen IV went to 600HP. As far as delivery date, a 2013 model wouldn't be delivered until at least the fall of 2012.

that's pretty bad....I'm a fan of most colors but that is not appealling....maybe it'll be better in the light....

Sorry to disagree with (most of) the other posts...but I think the car is GORGEOUS!!!

Congrats to the LUCKY owners!!

Anybody else have a viper they don't like/want...feel free to send her my way!!

PatentLaw said:

700 is never going to happen for political and engineering reasons.

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I bet people said the same thing about 400HP in the 80's...or 500HP in the 90's....heck, now base Mustang GTs come with 400HP+

Remember when you were a kid and playing your Nintendo Mario game and saying "Wow, I don't think it will ever get more realistic than this!"

Technology has a strange way of surprising us, I don't think 700hp is THAT far-fetched from a production car.

Mopar Boy said:

And comparing to yellow.....

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This picture could be titled:

The only known way in existance to make a yellow Viper look okay.

Not a fan of the "last" Viper but it's not mine, so whatever...

700 hp is not going to happen. More than the F cars? at 1/2 or less of the cost? If you guys think that, then I have a bridge to sell you.

We don't even know if there is sufficient budget to make a next generation and now you want to speculate about a 700 hp model and all of the regulations that are involved with it?

You collectively think that these Engineers, as good as they are, can just snap stuff together and make 700 hp. It does not work like that and it frankly shows how collectively you do not understand how research and development works as well as internal politics. Dodge is the little fish in the corporation. Maybe there will be some people who can push through the next model. That being said.......having a quantum leap to 700 hp, as the Engineers will tell you, does not make a car "better". Frankly, it makes the car more dangerous to many drivers.

We are looking for a better car, not simply looking a spreadsheets and saying 700 hp is better than 600 hp. I would expect a modest increase in horsepower and making the car lighter to increase the performance. That would be the classic thing to do and what should be expected. There are more Engineers at Dodge than just the powertrain guys and each one adds his skill to the bunch.

In my opinion, look for 620 hp and a max weight savings of 80 lbs and better brakes. That would give a sufficent edge to the new model over previous versions. Cancel the ACR version for the first year and use the funds from the new model to develop the aero on the new unit.

C.Hermsen said:

I bet people said the same thing about 400HP in the 80's...or 500HP in the 90's....heck, now base Mustang GTs come with 400HP+

Remember when you were a kid and playing your Nintendo Mario game and saying "Wow, I don't think it will ever get more realistic than this!"

Technology has a strange way of surprising us, I don't think 700hp is THAT far-fetched from a production car.

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Just because the increments are the same, 100hp, doesn't mean it's as easy to go from 600hp to 700hp. That would be like saying: Well, it was easy to go from 11.50 to 10.50 in the 1/4 mile, so going to 9.50 shouldn't be that big of a deal. The curve is NOT linear. There are a lot of factors that come into play with a NA car making 700hp and making it a civil street car. Doing it with a power adder is a different story. That's why I laugh at the comments from people that have gone 10.50, add more power and just assume they'll instantly crack a 9 second run. There is a LOT more to it than that.

Most viper owners aren't even making 700hp with their cars. There are enough people with more money than brains when it comes to these cars. Giving an ignorant driver that much power is just going to lead to a disaster. Most people have trouble driving their cars under WOT now, at 600. The tires aren't getting any better from the factory.

Leave the car at 600hp. Upgrade the internals to make it boost friendly should someone decide to go that route. These motors have an ungodly track record for taking abuse at monster numbers. My car makes well into 4 digits. I made over 60 runs at the track, probably closer to 100 overall, put a few thousand miles on it and all I did was change oil. That is just insane given the power levels it makes. No other platform currently can take that abuse without blowing the motor to pieces.

Don't make the car mod friendly and watch it get stomped by mustangs, vette's and countless other makes that ARE mod friendly. There is a reason people love those cars and I believe modification potential is a big reason.

A few of us that went to the Last Viper Event made a side trip to Arrow Racing Engines after CAAP. They work on special projects and some of them with SRT's involvement. We were given a tour by the very nice folks there and one of the engines they had on a stand was a supercharged Gen IV. With very mild boost levels (5 lbs) this was a reliable and durable 700+ HP powerplant. That is not my opinion but that of one of Arrow's technical staff.

When you own every example ever made in the Viper since the beginning, the idea I'm sure was to design one that stood out - unmistakeable against the backdrop of the rest of your collection. They have certainly accomplished that...

Think about all the colors over the years - the only color spectrum that hasnt been used is earth-tones. It makes sense to me.

While its not the color scheme I would pick out of all the options throughout the years if I were only going to own one (or even 6 ), it may be one I would've condsidered had I already owned every other color ever made!

Jim

PatentLaw said:

700 hp is not going to happen. More than the F cars? at 1/2 or less of the cost? If you guys think that, then I have a bridge to sell you.

We don't even know if there is sufficient budget to make a next generation and now you want to speculate about a 700 hp model and all of the regulations that are involved with it?

You collectively think that these Engineers, as good as they are, can just snap stuff together and make 700 hp. It does not work like that and it frankly shows how collectively you do not understand how research and development works as well as internal politics. Dodge is the little fish in the corporation. Maybe there will be some people who can push through the next model. That being said.......having a quantum leap to 700 hp, as the Engineers will tell you, does not make a car "better". Frankly, it makes the car more dangerous to many drivers.

We are looking for a better car, not simply looking a spreadsheets and saying 700 hp is better than 600 hp. I would expect a modest increase in horsepower and making the car lighter to increase the performance. That would be the classic thing to do and what should be expected. There are more Engineers at Dodge than just the powertrain guys and each one adds his skill to the bunch.

In my opinion, look for 620 hp and a max weight savings of 80 lbs and better brakes. That would give a sufficent edge to the new model over previous versions. Cancel the ACR version for the first year and use the funds from the new model to develop the aero on the new unit.

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As always. Thank you for your upbeat comments. I believe that what makes SRT great is that they like to do the unexpected. Cancel the ACR? Not a chance. They are not plowing money into the ACRX racing program and media blitz because they intend to cancel it. Listen to the last three public speeches Ralph has given. The ACR and the ACRX have been a marketing success. As for 700HP making the car more dangerous, you need to keep in mind that nannytech will be mandatory for cars starting in 2012. I think that it is easily argued that a 600 HP car without nannytech is far more dangerous than a 700 HP car with it. As usual, you and I can agree to disagree. I will continue to believe in the creativity of SRT and their desire to keep surprising the automotive world in the true spirit of Chrysler engineering.

EZ 2B Green said:

A few of us that went to the Last Viper Event made a side trip to Arrow Racing Engines after CAAP. They work on special projects and some of them with SRT's involvement. We were given a tour by the very nice folks there and one of the engines they had on a stand was a supercharged Gen IV. With very mild boost levels (5 lbs) this was a reliable and durable 700+ HP powerplant. That is not my opinion but that of one of Arrow's technical staff.

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Thank you for mentioning the above. I knew about it but did not think it could be made public. It was the basis for my comment above.

EZ 2B Green said:

A few of us that went to the Last Viper Event made a side trip to Arrow Racing Engines after CAAP. They work on special projects and some of them with SRT's involvement. We were given a tour by the very nice folks there and one of the engines they had on a stand was a supercharged Gen IV. With very mild boost levels (5 lbs) this was a reliable and durable 700+ HP powerplant. That is not my opinion but that of one of Arrow's technical staff.

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We are talking NA engines as provided above.

PatentLaw said:

We are talking NA engines as provided above.

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No. We ar talking about both. See my original post. At some point you might want to consider that you may not know what you do not know. The Monty Python music is starting to play.

Gen V Viper will have sticker price of $140K. Production will be scaled back to a couple of hundred cars per year, custom ordered.

VicTxV10 said:

Gen V Viper will have sticker price of $140K. Production will be scaled back to a couple of hundred cars per year, custom ordered.

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That might happen if you raise up the cost too much. If you start to add on superchargers and engineering for it, you easily add on more money, gas consumption and complexity. They then have to worry about how many people are going to buy a super expensive Dodge. They have a difficult time as it is selling vehicles.

If Bob says that the next Viper will have 40 more horsepower than a million dollar Ferrari Enzo, who can argue with that?

Logic dictates that the Viper is not the end-all be-all vehicle for the corporation. It plays second car to those who are higher in cost. Just the facts of life.

And many people on this board do NOT want a supercharged engine. It is not the heritage of the vehicle.

And Arrow has a supercharged engine.....oooohhhhh super secret. I bet they also have a turbocharged engine as well. Just don't tell anybody. It is also super secret. Give me a break.

And yes...again, to get back on track, the last "whatever it was" was ugly.

Like I said, put better pieces in the current motor and leave it around 600ish. That will give people all the modification abilities they want. Build the bottom end enough, allow the computer to be tuned and people could spend 15k and have 1000hp via a paxton. Road race guys will still love it as the motor is internally stronger and mod people are happy as they don't have to pull the motor to do big boost. Creampuffs ****. Who wants to sit and constantly worry if they're going to exit stage right? It wouldn't dramatically increase the cost, but would dramatically increase the aftermarket options. To me, that makes the car a lot more attractive to other people.

PatentLaw said:

That might happen if you raise up the cost too much. If you start to add on superchargers and engineering for it, you easily add on more money, gas consumption and complexity. They then have to worry about how many people are going to buy a super expensive Dodge. They have a difficult time as it is selling vehicles.

If Bob says that the next Viper will have 40 more horsepower than a million dollar Ferrari Enzo, who can argue with that?

Logic dictates that the Viper is not the end-all be-all vehicle for the corporation. It plays second car to those who are higher in cost. Just the facts of life.

And many people on this board do NOT want a supercharged engine. It is not the heritage of the vehicle.

And Arrow has a supercharged engine.....oooohhhhh super secret. I bet they also have a turbocharged engine as well. Just don't tell anybody. It is also super secret. Give me a break.

And yes...again, to get back on track, the last "whatever it was" was ugly.

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You need to review my posts above in a more precise manner. The above post is not responsive.

Personally - I don't mind the colour choice for the last IV Viper. It reminds me more of a snake than "Snakeskin" green. I think it could grow on you. Maybe in 5 years from now we will say thats the coolest colour ever on a viper. It will stand out in a sea of other Vipers at a convention or show - and thats the point. It deserves originality. I remember thinking the dark moss green colours of the late '60s / early '70s Beaumonts and Chevelles were terrible. But since the 1990's, and into the present, they look awesome.

On the whole future gen V Viper - I think a small power adder should be incorporated into the power plant. Instead of totally re-working the V10 from the ground up, they should just make minor upgrades on fuel flow and programming for a low boost adder. Reliability and durability without going "too far". This platform should and probably would leave the option to increase PSI or simply upgrade to another power adder with ease and simplicity for people who want big gains. The gen V HAS to have more than the 638 produced by ZR1. It just does. At the end of the day - all the simpletons will argue about the stock horsepower being the better car. We have to cater to this psyche and cover our bases. After this, there is a good chance Ford and Chevy (and Dodge) will not be able to put out any more horsepower. 2012, in all likelihood, will not be the "end of times" as doomsday speculators insist - But I do believe it will be the end of the horsepower era. Dodge needs to go out with a bang, a realistic one.
666 horsepower is the number to achieve - not one less - not one more. It's within reasonability for engineering, it's got the ZR1 beat by just enough ponies, AND it is a devilish snakelike appropriate number for probably the last generation of Vipers.

I'll say the magic number again.
666 hp

Glad I wont ever see it in person, I hate throwing up.

Although I'm not a fan of any post Gen II Viper styling the colors on that last one off the line are just plain hideous. My goodness.

Anyway, I hope the Viper makes a comeback some year with something other than the current "nice Vette" looks and a sub 6-figure price tag. With the way the auto industry is heading as far as government regulations I'm not holding my breath. I personally think the party is over. Hopefully, my Gen II just took a few steps closer to collector status.

I have to admit the last Viper is quite unattractive. Very likely the last Viper no matter what anyone here thinks they know. We'll have to wait and see. Nobody here has an inside track.

Snake Bit...A Viper Love Story

includes video of their warehouses:

Snake Bit...A Viper Love Story | KETK

BlknBlu said:

No other Viper has the same look as this one.

Bruce

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Hopefully.

Yellow32 said:

Snake Bit...A Viper Love Story

includes video of their warehouses:

Snake Bit...A Viper Love Story | KETK

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reading the name of this story, i was hoping for a nobody gets hurt viper fire or accident to put this car out if its misery.

Before some of you go picking apart this post, understand I've already considered everything you can possibly offer so save it.

ILMOR MV10 High Performance Marine Engines — Ilmor Engineering

Viper motor. 725 NA HP. Word is they have an even higher HP (NA) version in the works. I understand it has a free flowing exhaust this and that but regardless it's a reliable production motor. It can be done. It will be done.

FTR, I am guessing the new watered-down viper will have a 675HP NA motor. It won't break 700HP for a few production years. That's just a shot in the dark.