supercharger was it a mistake

ILLSMOQ · Apr 26, 2011

99 R/T 10 said:
Hate to disagree with Jon, but past the 60', if drivers are equal, the S/C car will walk a geared car bad.....................

I am in agreement with your disagreement.

The only reason a geared car should be close to the S/C'd car is beacause the S/C'd car can't stop the tires from spinning.

harley1211 said:
I am having a Paxton Novi 2000 put in my 06 GenIII. I just spoke to a expert on Vipers and he is not a big fan of the superchargers.
He said for about $1,200 I should have changed the gear ratio and would have gotten the same power through all 6 speeds. Then he went on to tell me all the down falls of the supercharger. Ex. changing your plugs every 3000 miles, etc, etc. Is there any positive side to this? Did I make a MAJOR mistake.

Your expert does not sound like an expert. The only people I've ever seen regret putting a super charger on their Viper are the ones that had faulty installations or damaged parts. If it is done correctly you will love it....but please don't crash it. :2tu:

mjorgensen Woodhouse · Apr 26, 2011

witz323 said:
How many hours does it take a good tech to install a new set of gears?

If they are paid "book time" it is 10 hours from the time they go on the lift.

351carlo · Apr 26, 2011

1OF76RT/10 said:
I don't know if that's the case. My stock 3.73 always beats my buddies 540 rwhp Paxton car in the 1/8 mile, but never run the 1/4.

To be blunt, your buddy can't drive or the cars aren't equal in other areas.

Switch cars, bet it's a different outcome after a few passes. There's no reason that a car with as much torque as the Viper should have an issue coming out of the hole. Unless you have different tires or different suspension, it shouldn't even be a close race.

1OF76RT/10 · Apr 26, 2011

351carlo said:
To be blunt, your buddy can't drive or the cars aren't equal in other areas.

Switch cars, bet it's a different outcome after a few passes. There's no reason that a car with as much torque as the Viper should have an issue coming out of the hole. Unless you have different tires or different suspension, it shouldn't even be a close race.

Both cars have same suspension and tires and good launches with no wheel spin. I don't understand why it shouldn't be a close race, 3.73's are something like 23% easier to turn, making your acceleration much faster. Am I missing something?

FLATOUT · Apr 26, 2011

1OF76RT/10 said:
Both cars have same suspension and tires and good launches with no wheel spin. I don't understand why it shouldn't be a close race, 3.73's are something like 23% easier to turn make your acceleration much faster. Am I missing something?

I don't think your missing something. In the 1/8 the advantage of better gearing will be more noticeable, but in the 1/4 or from a roll on the street the blown car should pull easily.

I would be very interested to see both of your trap speeds in the 1/8. Also when you say you both are leaving hard with no wheel spin, what kind of 60's are you looking at? I bet if you are leaving him hard by .2 or more that it would be difficult for him to reel you in by the 1/8. 2 car lengths by the 60' mark is somewhat difficult to run down given the shorter distance of the track.

From a stopped position on the street he might actually have the advantage getting the blower car to hook up unless your running DR's all the time.

I used to have a buddy that had a bolt on C5 Z06 with 4.10's and drag radials, and my C5 Z made around 560rwhp with 3.42's, and a Vortech. When he was on his DR's he would own me at the lights but I would smash him from a roll easily. When I would run my DR's he would leave on me still but I would reel him in much quicker and would just put lengths on him.

Not sure if any of that matters but it was what it was.

JonB · Apr 26, 2011

I dont understand why several SMART people here are completely missing my primary Pro-Con point to the original poster: Bang-For-Buck acceleration = GEARS.

$7000 more for a blower than for gears. Slightly faster.

Superchargers are fun, fast, more tuning needed, dont raise car value, and are harder on the hardware. Gears are simply a "Poor mans Supercharger" and you keep $7000.

If I had sold 200+ Blowers instead of 1000+ gearsets, Id be about even....but my customers saved $7,000,000 !!!

vancouver-gts · Apr 26, 2011

Jon, some people keep saying gears don't add HP. Of course they don't, but they multiply torque to the rear wheels = faster acceleration. A good driver would benefit from gears at the dragstrip at 1/4 mile not just the 1/8.

FLATOUT · Apr 26, 2011

JonB - PartsRack said:
I dont understand why several SMART people here are completely missing my primary Pro-Con point to the original poster: Bang-For-Buck acceleration = GEARS.

$7000 more for a blower than for gears. Slightly faster.

Superchargers are fun, fast, more tuning needed, dont raise car value, and are harder on the hardware. Gears are simply a "Poor mans Supercharger" and you keep $7000.

If I had sold 200+ Blowers instead of 1000+ gearsets, Id be about even....but my customers saved $7,000,000 !!!

Didn't miss it John just don't even remotely agree with you.

A stock gen 3 trapping 123 mph, or a blown car trapping 135 mph is a huge difference. Sorry but that is a huge margin in rolling acceleration which one can absolutely take advantage of from say 50-60 mph and up on street tires or across the entire range on drag radials.

Gears swaps are great and cost effective but they are but they are no way near a "poor mans blower," as you like to refer to them. That's just my personal opinion though.

plumcrazy · Apr 26, 2011

True but nowhere near the gain of a SC. But it is 7k more. And the added gains for the posers like me can't be compared.

Andy Wheeler for the win

FLATOUT · Apr 26, 2011

Maybe your customers bought gearsets from you and then bought a blower from someone else? I personally will add a blower to my car at some point as well.

I do agree though that 7k is allot of coin to drop so I suggest that folks learn how to wrench. I had to learn out of necessity and I'll probably pick up a used Paxton and install it myself like I did on previous cars. I know it's done right and pay a fraction of the costs.

JonB · Apr 26, 2011

Whew.... sounds like we are getting to a respectable difference of opinion. Thanks
Its the $7000 !!!!

FLATOUT · Apr 26, 2011

JonB - PartsRack said:
Whew.... sounds like we are getting to a respectable difference of opinion. Thanks
Its the $7000 !!!!

Yes sir I agree.

Black Moon · Apr 26, 2011

JonB - PartsRack said:
I dont understand why several SMART people here are completely missing my primary Pro-Con point to the original poster: Bang-For-Buck acceleration = GEARS.

$7000 more for a blower than for gears. Slightly faster.

Superchargers are fun, fast, more tuning needed, dont raise car value, and are harder on the hardware. Gears are simply a "Poor mans Supercharger" and you keep $7000.

If I had sold 200+ Blowers instead of 1000+ gearsets, Id be about even....but my customers saved $7,000,000 !!!

I'm trying to figure out where I fit in. I bought 355's from you Jon and enjoyed the extra 'punch' the car had. Definately noticable and a reasonably priced mod. I them bought a slightly used Paxton with the upgraded cooler for roughly $3,300, installed it myself (pretty simple) and the car felt like I had added another V-10 inline with the one I had. HUGE difference, no comparison. So now I'm at about 650 to the wheels and running 355's and really feel a need for more. Not quite if I'll ever have enough.

Bottom line for me anyway the gear change made me say 'Cool' and the blower made me say 'Holy F***!!!!!'

Does that clarify it for anyone?

plumcrazy · Apr 26, 2011

Black Moon said:
Bottom line for me anyway the gear change made me say 'Cool' and the blower made me say 'Holy F***!!!!!'

sounds about right

RedEnuf93 · Apr 26, 2011

25.000 miles with a ROE blower and no issues. Yes, very unreliable....
I did the 3.55 gears, waste of money. I dont care what people say.
The ROE was "HOLY ****"!!
BTW, the 300 shot of nitrous did the same "HOLY ****"!!!

JonB · Apr 27, 2011

Black Moon said:
I'm trying to figure out where I fit in. I bought 355's from you Jon and enjoyed the extra 'punch' the car had. Definately noticable and a reasonably priced mod. I them bought a slightly used Paxton with the upgraded cooler for roughly $3,300, installed it myself (pretty simple) and the car felt like I had added another V-10 inline with the one I had. HUGE difference, no comparison. So now I'm at about 650 to the wheels and running 355's and really feel a need for more. Not quite if I'll ever have enough. Bottom line for me anyway the gear change made me say 'Cool' and the blower made me say 'Holy F***!!!!!'

Does that clarify it for anyone?

For you it was not a $7000+ difference....you got the performance for less than half. GREAT FIT is how you fit! So your cost-benefit ratio is waaay better than the average newbee. Great performance for under 50%, and you obviously can handle the tuning needs. I dont think we have any arguement, just a discussion on informed, relative values ie Bang-For-Buck

viper067 · Apr 27, 2011

I don't really think JonB is trying to say that Gears = Supercharger

What it seems to me is he is trying to say that most people don't need the extra HP and for them gears is the right solution at a fraction of the cost

For some reason, many seem to think JonB is saying there is not a time and place for SC which it doesn't seem to me is the case

Correct me if I am wrong please

TowDawg · Apr 27, 2011

Black Moon said:
I'm trying to figure out where I fit in. I bought 355's from you Jon and enjoyed the extra 'punch' the car had. Definately noticable and a reasonably priced mod. I them bought a slightly used Paxton with the upgraded cooler for roughly $3,300, installed it myself (pretty simple) and the car felt like I had added another V-10 inline with the one I had. HUGE difference, no comparison. So now I'm at about 650 to the wheels and running 355's and really feel a need for more. Not quite if I'll ever have enough.

Bottom line for me anyway the gear change made me say 'Cool' and the blower made me say 'Holy F***!!!!!'

Does that clarify it for anyone?

I still need to take a ride in that thing. I'm just a little scared to because I need to make sure my wallet is ready for it first. I'm sure I'll get out of your car and immediately start looking for one!

Gary Weeks · Apr 27, 2011

mjorgensen said:
Superchargers are a waste of time, just ask any of the 200+ customers we have done how foolish it was...

Oh and yea they are a total headache to deal with...really???? any REAL EXPERT would tell you that.

Your right Mark.....I hate the the one you put on my wife's car....I can barley beat her in my 08 with the headers and PCM now :lmao:

Oh yeah.....the maintenance is terrible, I had to change the oil for the second time now in 6000 miles :dunno:

Seriously if you can't afford it don't do it but if you can have some fun why not??

Black Moon · Apr 27, 2011

TowDawg said:
I still need to take a ride in that thing. I'm just a little scared to because I need to make sure my wallet is ready for it first. I'm sure I'll get out of your car and immediately start looking for one!

It's not your wallet that you need to worry about. It's the maniac behind the wheel. And NO you can't drive it

Black Moon · Apr 27, 2011

JonB - PartsRack said:
For you it was not a $7000+ difference....you got the performance for less than half. GREAT FIT is how you fit! So your cost-benefit ratio is waaay better than the average newbee. Great performance for under 50%, and you obviously can handle the tuning needs. I dont think we have any arguement, just a discussion on informed, relative values IE Bang-For-Buck

No argument here. Just trying to educate the noobs here that there isn't really a way to compare the two except how I explained it in my opinion. I enjoyed (and am still enjoying) the gears that you sold me but wanted much much more. I may be going back to 307's though. I'm changing gears every couple of seconds with the SC and gears combined.

Best regards to you Jon.

Red Snake · Apr 27, 2011

If there are any stock Gen II's out there with gears that would care to race me in the 1/8 mile, please let me know. I'm all in. :drive:

kennyhemi · Apr 27, 2011

plumcrazy said:
your "expert" is a dope. gears make no power.

you made a decision to install it, the car is there at the shop and now you wanna change your mind ? make up your mind

it sounds like a SC is not for YOU.

NO! but it makes your car go faster if you have the right set up!!

vpower01 · Apr 28, 2011

You made a good choice for the money...you will be happy! :2tu:

2006red/whitecoupe · Apr 28, 2011

I won't list the numerous horror stories I have witnessed with those who put on a supercharger, I will just say that if you put one on, prepare for trouble and if it turns out to be service free so much the better.

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE · Apr 28, 2011

Pretty good post on differences of opinions. I would just like to add that cheap isn't always better and power costs.. Quality performance is always worth the price, I think most would agree :dunno:

, we're talking Viper's.

Well lunch is over, I need to get back under the Copperhead and tickle it's belly.

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE, INC.
Toddy

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

Canyon707 · Apr 28, 2011

I prefer to keep my motor N but, I wouldn't mind a shot or two of nitrous. I stood off with a z06 last Wed night and he had a shot of it. I ran 11.72 he ran 11.6 fun but, I was the loser. His car with nitrous is just faster. Is this stuff safe or is it just a matter of time. Who around in N. Cal sets up nitrous for a Viper??

FastMatt · Apr 28, 2011

Here is my take on the 3.55's, when my car was stock other then a cat-back and smooth tubes installing the 3.55's made a HUGE difference in the way the car felt. Then after I did heads/cam/headers are got 612 rwhp the car was almost nuts to drive with the 355 parelli's the slick roads we have around here 1st and 2nd gear were useless. So I went to nitto 345/30R19 NT05R drags, and a Tru-Trac dif that got me allot of traction back but 1st gear was still prity useless, so I went to 3.33 gears and I tell you I think the car got faster. It still spins but the longer gears made it more fun. Right now I am installing a Paxton and I have a feeling I'll be going down to stock gears here soon Looking for 800+ rwhp.

But to compare doing gears to adding 200 rwhp to the car is a stupid comparison. Gears will make the car a little faster (if you can get it to hook) but they do make it more fun because you are going threw the gears faster. But adding 200 rwhp to a car is a totally different ball game.

TR930 · Apr 28, 2011

For the Paxton guys, rebuilt bottom end/pistons or no? 8lbs of boost normal/safe/excessive?

plumcrazy · Apr 29, 2011

which gen car ?
gen2 forged with a good fuel system its safe with a good tune
gen3 id say the same but less safe cause of the pistons

supercharger was it a mistake

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