To our Williamsburg area members who value ALL of their rights...a heads up:

kcobean · Jul 1, 2011

I got notification that the Williamsburg Cars & Coffee event no longer allows its participants the perfectly legal action of carrying a weapon, concealed or otherwise, at this event. If you are so inclined, I encourage you to tell Sam and the event organizers that you will find another place to take your car where your rights are respected.

To all members / potential attendees of Cars and Coffee Williamsburg; In hopes of creating a family friendly atmosphere that might best serve all of our enthusiast friends, both I and the assistant coordinators felt it best early on to establish...basic guidelines to ensure your personal safety. To that end our: No Rev, No Burnout, and later No Loud music, No Fighting policy has served well to provide a Zero Incident, Zero Accident record now spanning almost one year at Cars and Coffee Williamsburg. You are ALL to be commended for your individual efforts regarding safety. Self-policing in a free society is by far preferable to some other means of event security. That having been said; today I must go on record with an additional guideline. A guideline that I am sure you will agree is a measure that more completely considers the safety of all attendees to our event, vice the inconvenience to the few affected by it. The possession of personal weapons and/or firearms, concealed by permit, or otherwise carried at or to the event known as: Cars & Coffee Williamsburg is now formally Prohibited. While Cars and Coffee Williamsburg recognizes an individual's right to "Keep and Bear Arms" as right guaranteed by the Constitution, we feel that Firearms are inappropriate at the Cars & Coffee Williamsburg event. I hope that each of you agree and will join with me in assuming the responsibility to continue enforcing our policies and now this additional basic guideline. You may do so best by: passing the word to new attendees when inviting them to join us.. or by informing me of the presence of firearms at our event - Immediately. This additional basic guideline is in place as of today: June 21st 2011 at all future Cars and Coffee Williamsburg events. Sam Stevens, Event Coordinator: Cars & Coffee Williamsburg

ETA: And the bit in bold is the biggest bunch of illogical hypocrisy I've ever seen....think hard about how disarming a law-abiding citizen is preferrable to "other means of security"...how is disarming someone who carries for self-defense..protecting them?

JonB · Jul 1, 2011

Just in time for the FOURTH OF JULY !

Tell Em Kelly.......... hope to see U at VIR next week

kcobean · Jul 1, 2011

Hey Jon, thanks for stopping in. It doesn't look like I'm going to make it to VIR this year.

Have a good time!

viperdrummer · Jul 1, 2011

What absolute BS. Plenty of better places to get coffee. This will not play well with gear heads .

TowDawg · Jul 1, 2011

Of people I know that have higher end cars, a much higher percentage also carry (at least sometimes) than those that don't. Any time that somewhere publicly bans concealed carry, it really opens it up as a "target rich environment" or the wrong kind of people.
I've 100% stopped shopping at Bass ProShops because they don't allow licensed people to carry in their stores anymore.

KNG SNKE · Jul 1, 2011

I am going to venture a guess but I am not sure what they could do to stop you from carrying.

IE You park your car. You get out of your car. You walk around. One of the event coordinators says you need to leave you have a weapon. You laugh at him. He calls police. Police tell them they are holding an event in a public parking lot where it is perfectly legal to open or conceal carry. Any lawyers out there? Am I wrong?

kcobean · Jul 1, 2011

KNG SNKE said:
I am going to venture a guess but I am not sure what they could do to stop you from carrying.

IE You park your car. You get out of your car. You walk around. One of the event coordinators says you need to leave you have a weapon. You laugh at him. He calls police. Police tell them they are holding an event in a public parking lot where it is perfectly legal to open or conceal carry. Any lawyers out there? Am I wrong?

The event is held on private property (a winery). Failure to leave upon request could result in a criminal trespass charge.

KNG SNKE · Jul 1, 2011

When did they move it from the outlets?

kcobean · Jul 1, 2011

KNG SNKE said:
When did they move it from the outlets?

Never been there, so I'm not sure....this is their website: http://www.carsandcoffeewilliamsburg.com/

KNG SNKE · Jul 1, 2011

That is definitely a new thing. Right before I left which was in April we had a cars and coffee at the outlet center in Williamsburg. They must of been kicked out.

kcobean · Jul 1, 2011

What's interesting is that they have since changed the wording on their website to read "Consult VA State Law regarding personal protection at our event."

I'm quite certain that since it is private property, and VA code 18.2-308(O) reads, "The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property", they will use VA State Law to eject anybody who is spotted carrying a weapon.

TowDawg · Jul 1, 2011

If it's at the winery, the owner of the winery would have to post visible signs saying they do not allow concealed weapons on their private property. The event organizers shouldn't have any power to enforce anything. It would have to come from the owner of the property. At least that's the way in works in TN.

KNG SNKE · Jul 2, 2011

TowDawg said:
If it's at the winery, the owner of the winery would have to post visible signs saying they do not allow concealed weapons on their private property. The event organizers shouldn't have any power to enforce anything. It would have to come from the owner of the property. At least that's the way in works in TN.

That is how it works in VA as well. All new to me. Guess they stepped up out of the parking lot.

kcobean · Jul 2, 2011

KNG SNKE said:
That is how it works in VA as well. All new to me. Guess they stepped up out of the parking lot.

Actually, no. VA does not require the posting of signs, and honestly we don't want that law. Private property owner rights trump gun rights, as it should be. If the organizer is coordinating with (or is the owner or manager of) the winery to establish a policy, their preference is legally sufficient. You have to be asked to leave first, then if you refuse, the charge becomes criminal trespass.

KNG SNKE · Jul 3, 2011

When I got my concealment permit I was informed that I could not carry in any stores that had signs posted. Without a sign posted how are people suppose to know? Aside from the car show having a web page stating that you cannot carry there how would anyone know?

kcobean · Jul 3, 2011

KNG SNKE said:
When I got my concealment permit I was informed that I could not carry in any stores that had signs posted. Without a sign posted how are people suppose to know? Aside from the car show having a web page stating that you cannot carry there how would anyone know?

There is no sign provision under VA law regarding either verbiage, placement or size. Therefore if you "miss" a sign and enter that property, there is no penalty. If you are subsequently approached by the property owner or designated representative and asked to leave, you must do so or face arrest for criminal trespass.

The Dulles Town Center Mall here in Sterling has a formal "no weapons" policy, but it is not posted anywhere. A few years ago, back when the "restaurant ban" (no concealed carry where alcohol is sold for consumption) was still in place, I was kicked out of that mall for switching to open carry in the food court because a restaurant there sold beer. One of the four deputies that approached me to make sure I wasn't a lunatic who was eating a cheesesteak with my wife before going on a killing spree informed me that the mall had a policy against weapons. They told me that I was welcome to come back to the mall's customer service desk after removing my weapon to get a printed copy of their policy.

alpine7822 · Jul 8, 2011

As one of the uninformed masses...I'm going to side with Kelly on this one. Virginia has no sign requirements and it's up the property owner, or their agent, to set the rules. As C&C would be acting as a possible agent for the Winery (i.e. - granted the same rights as the property owner when hosting an even there), C&C could impose rules that the owner would not normally adhere to. Therefore, as C&C is also likely required to have some kind of insurance to host such an event on private property, they can govern the event.

Either way, this is America, while I am 100% behind gun rights, you also have the freedom to not support an event if you do not agree with their rules. In fact, you have the freedom to start your own version of the event with your own rules. If you feel strongly enough about this event that you have to attend, then you abide by their rules. Very simple...the choice is yours.

kcobean · Jul 8, 2011

alpine7822 said:
As one of the uninformed masses...I'm going to side with Kelly on this one. Virginia has no sign requirements and it's up the property owner, or their agent, to set the rules. As C&C would be acting as a possible agent for the Winery (i.e. - granted the same rights as the property owner when hosting an even there), C&C could impose rules that the owner would not normally adhere to. Therefore, as C&C is also likely required to have some kind of insurance to host such an event on private property, they can govern the event.

Either way, this is America, while I am 100% behind gun rights, you also have the freedom to not support an event if you do not agree with their rules. In fact, you have the freedom to start your own version of the event with your own rules. If you feel strongly enough about this event that you have to attend, then you abide by their rules. Very simple...the choice is yours.

Couldn't have said it better myself. That's why I posted....so folks can make an informed decision about supporting an event that may or may not conflict with their personal values. Thanks Mike!

(And I don't buy the "uninformed masses" thing a bit coming from you.

)

To our Williamsburg area members who value ALL of their rights...a heads up:

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