KW Ride Update....

Well I went to Todd on Friday afternoon and adressed the suspension, it was WAAYYY off. Looking at the coil overs Todd at A&C tells me they were recently installed. Whoever installed them did a ****ty job. The backs were set at 5 clicks from full soft and the fronts were set at 2 from full soft. My front tire is almost tucked and the back tire has 1.5 finger gap. He aligned it (Was way off) and he adjusted everything FULL FIRM per my request. It rides WAY to rough now. He initially left the fronts alone and just did the backs full firm and that felt great on his local roads (The roads around him were pretty smooth so its my fault for not going on the freeway to check the ride). I went and bought a jack last night so I am going to dial the fronts back 3-4 clicks, and see what that does. You really have to play with the settings on these KW's compared to the Motons at my ride height. My problem is I want all 4 tires almost tucked. Right now with the KWs I am on the last thread and cant adjust the back any lower. If your looking to tuck all 4 tires (Most arent) these wont work, you need Motons. If your looking to lower it like a normal person 1.5-2 inches, these will work fine.

Just wanted to say Thanks to Todd at A&C. Got there at 4pm and they didnt finish the car until 8:30 pm. The alignment alone took 1.5 hours. The previous owner also installed one of the shocks in BACKWARDS which Todd fixed. The car is still pulling HARD to the right (Which it did before) and is darty, so I think I may have a bad tire. I bought them used from John B and he told me they had 1000 track miles on them, so I dont know if the track miles on the tires are causing the problem.

Story on the KW's is you really need to dial in the shock settings, they are not Motons (For almost half the price I dont expect them to be). Of course I am extremley low which complicates everything, but my prior experience with Motons will solve my current problem. I will give an update once I have played with the shock settings a bit.

Glad you got over to Todds. He really understands suspensions.

Trying to get the lowest, the cheapest, and the smoothest is a tough nut to crack. On a best case you need to give up on one of these to get the other two.

Motons were indeed the class act for Vipers. With them no longer making those shocks, other alternatives are going to be a comprimise.

When I purchased my 09 used, it was pretty low, and had some issues, but the look was fantastic.

I wanted it set up for occasional track use, so had it raised up a bit, and firmed up a bit. It was still a comprimise, but that is expected.

When I put on the new Pilot Super Sports it all came together. The slightly taller sidewalls, as compared to the Nitto's and different construction made the package work.

It now rides smooth as glass, corners like on rails, tires are much quieter, and for street driving it rocks. It is now lower than stock, but not slammed. Does not grind over speed bumps, or in and out of driveways.

My next trip with the club will be in a couple weeks from San Diego to Sedona AZ for a group event with the Arizona Club. I can look forward to a smooth 6 hour cruise to Scottsdale, a cool looking ride when I get there in the parking lot, and a kick ass handling car when I take my mountain side trip up the hill to Jerome, and back along the curves to Prescott, and then get into desert high speed cruise mode on the trip back home. Teresa appreciates the great road manners with the A/C keeping us cool, while the radio makes the time pass quickly. Gotta love a Viper road trip.

While I would still prefer Motons, this current set up makes me smile every time I drive it.

Next time you get to Todds, ask him what setting he thinks would give you the best results. Setting to full firm may not be your answer. He can usually get the package bang on if you follow his lead.

Paul Hawker said:

Glad you got over to Todds. He really understands suspensions.

Trying to get the lowest, the cheapest, and the smoothest is a tough nut to crack. On a best case you need to give up on one of these to get the other two.

Motons were indeed the class act for Vipers. With them no longer making those shocks, other alternatives are going to be a comprimise.

When I purchased my 09 used, it was pretty low, and had some issues, but the look was fantastic.

I wanted it set up for occasional track use, so had it raised up a bit, and firmed up a bit. It was still a comprimise, but that is expected.

When I put on the new Pilot Super Sports it all came together. The slightly taller sidewalls, as compared to the Nitto's and different construction made the package work.

It now rides smooth as glass, corners like on rails, tires are much quieter, and for street driving it rocks. It is now lower than stock, but not slammed. Does not grind over speed bumps, or in and out of driveways.

My next trip with the club will be in a couple weeks from San Diego to Sedona AZ for a group event with the Arizona Club. I can look forward to a smooth 6 hour cruise to Scottsdale, a cool looking ride when I get there in the parking lot, and a kick ass handling car when I take my mountain side trip up the hill to Jerome, and back along the curves to Prescott, and then get into desert high speed cruise mode on the trip back home. Teresa appreciates the great road manners with the A/C keeping us cool, while the radio makes the time pass quickly. Gotta love a Viper road trip.

While I would still prefer Motons, this current set up makes me smile every time I drive it.

Next time you get to Todds, ask him what setting he thinks would give you the best results. Setting to full firm may not be your answer. He can usually get the package bang on if you follow his lead.

Click to expand...

I'm going to play with the settings myself tonight. At this point thats all thats left we can do. I am going to adjust the fronts only and drive it for a couple of days. Its BRUTALLY STIFF to drive as is now, I lost 2 caps in my mouth on the way into the office today. I will either find a set of used Motons or wait for the new company to come out with their offerings. Of course raising the car would take care of all my problems but that would be to easy!

I talked to tech support at KW, they said it is not recommended to drive on full firm. A few clicks softer should solve your problem

Richie7 said:

I talked to tech support at KW, they said it is not recommended to drive on full firm. A few clicks softer should solve your problem

Click to expand...

Thanks Richie. Full firm is unbearable at my ride height.

Mike,

Couple of suggestions:

1 - Start in the middle of the adjustment range with your KWs as many shocks that are valved for a specific car suggest this as a starting point.

2 - Check your tire pressures with a good gauge (digital preferred) if you haven't yet. A low tire will "pull" if all other tires are about the same. If the air pressure is good, check for shoulder wear. Most tires that have been tracked will have worn shoulders. You may be able to flop the tire on the rim and get a more stable ride.

3 - When you lower a Viper a bunch, you will need to check the dynamic toe, aka "bump steer". This too can make the car "darty".

4 - On the lowering, you can likely change to a shorter spring in the rear and lower the car more. You could also choose a bit stiffer spring provided you get your shock situation dialed in.

5 - Check with Tod on your toe settings. Toe should be set to 0 or a bit of toe in up front. Rear toe should be 0 or a bit of toe in. This will help stabilize the ride a bit.

6 - Adding a bit of negative camber will help the handling and the tire "tucking" up into the fender too, just don't over do it or the tire wear will be accelerated.

Good luck,

Dan

Viper X said:

Mike,

Couple of suggestions:

1 - Start in the middle of the adjustment range with your KWs as many shocks that are valved for a specific car suggest this as a starting point.

2 - Check your tire pressures with a good gauge (digital preferred) if you haven't yet. A low tire will "pull" if all other tires are about the same. If the air pressure is good, check for shoulder wear. Most tires that have been tracked will have worn shoulders. You may be able to flop the tire on the rim and get a more stable ride.

3 - When you lower a Viper a bunch, you will need to check the dynamic toe, aka "bump steer". This too can make the car "darty".

4 - On the lowering, you can likely change to a shorter spring in the rear and lower the car more. You could also choose a bit stiffer spring provided you get your shock situation dialed in.

5 - Check with Tod on your toe settings. Toe should be set to 0 or a bit of toe in up front. Rear toe should be 0 or a bit of toe in. This will help stabilize the ride a bit.

6 - Adding a bit of negative camber will help the handling and the tire "tucking" up into the fender too, just don't over do it or the tire wear will be accelerated.

Good luck,

Dan

Click to expand...

Thanks Dan. I wish you would open a shop, I work right down the street from you. I am going to see if I can take this back to Todd on Friday and have him check it out again. Something is really going on her thats not right. If you drove it you would believe how bad it is. I will closley check the air in the tires (Visually looks ok), but I want Todd to drive it to see if he can figure it out.

1Dumped you may have a set of factory ACR coilovers. They have a stronger spring rate that may be causing the extremely rough ride. I know AbsoluteHank had a set on his slammed viper for about 5 days and removed them because the ride was so aweful.

bmw2nv2000 said:

1Dumped you may have a set of factory ACR coilovers. They have a stronger spring rate that may be causing the extremely rough ride. I know AbsoluteHank had a set on his slammed viper for about 5 days and removed them because the ride was so aweful.

Click to expand...

They look like regular KW's to me (I could be wrong though). Do you know if theres a way to tell if thet are from an ACR?

acr kws are piggy backs, meaning a charge bottle on the side of the shock

Yeah piggybacks I forgot

bluesrt said:

acr kws are piggy backs, meaning a charge bottle on the side of the shock

Click to expand...

Then mine are definatley regular ones.

Hey Mike,

I'll be home this Sunday, likely getting my ACR ready for next weekend at Willow Springs.

You can come by the house if you'd like and I'll take a look at your car and / or take it for a short ride.

I live in Foothill Ranch.

PM me if interested.

[email protected]

Dan

Viper X said:

Hey Mike,

I'll be home this Sunday, likely getting my ACR ready for next weekend at Willow Springs.

You can come by the house if you'd like and I'll take a look at your car and / or take it for a short ride.

I live in Foothill Ranch.

PM me if interested.

[email protected]

Dan

Click to expand...

Dan, I'll take you up on that, PM sent.

Here's how they should look
Mine are set at 8 clicks from full hard and they ride very nice
FRONT



REAR

SilveRT8 said:

Here's how they should look
Mine are set at 8 clicks from full hard and they ride very nice
FRONT

You must be registered for see images

REAR

You must be registered for see images

Click to expand...

How low are you?

One loose finger front and back, or 25 3/4" front and 27 3/4" rear as measured from floor to fender lip.
Low but not slammed, no more rubbing, good to go almost anywhere.

those kws are strange on the adjustment- your fronts are almost all the way down,and rear all the way up almost- my car is a little higher,not much and both are around the middle on adjustment- wierd- front 26.5 and rear 28.5

SilveRT8 said:

One loose finger front and back, or 25 3/4" front and 27 3/4" rear as measured from floor to fender lip.
Low but not slammed, no more rubbing, good to go almost anywhere.

You must be registered for see images

Click to expand...

It looks like we are REAL close in back. My front is a lot lower though. I will take some measurements tonight. I have been working stupid hours and havnt been able to adjust it at night. I am going to head over to Dan's this weekend so with his history and knowledge of these cars hopefully we can get it figured out (i will be buying the steak dinner). I dont even want to drive the thing the ride is so ****ty (Looking for another Rubicon for my daily), and for me saying that it is really bad.

The fronts are the ones all the way up and for some reason there is no helper spring in there. The rear is way down and does have the helper. Not so sure that the spring rates are the stock KW, almost looks like the front springs are on the rear and vise versa. The rears should have the higher rate spring so maybe they were just installed wrong from the beginning...?

bluesrt said:

those kws are strange on the adjustment- your fronts are almost all the way down,and rear all the way up almost- my car is a little higher,not much and both are around the middle on adjustment- wierd- front 26.5 and rear 28.5

Click to expand...

I have the H&R coilovers and love them, they dont make them anymore but Im sure glad that I have them. The ride is great I dont have my car slam now , but when I did they still worked great.

mjorgensen Woodhouse said:

The fronts are the ones all the way up and for some reason there is no helper spring in there. The rear is way down and does have the helper. Not so sure that the spring rates are the stock KW, almost looks like the front springs are on the rear and vise versa. The rears should have the higher rate spring so maybe they were just installed wrong from the beginning...?

Click to expand...

yes something definatly differant going on there

mjorgensen Woodhouse said:

The fronts are the ones all the way up and for some reason there is no helper spring in there. The rear is way down and does have the helper. Not so sure that the spring rates are the stock KW, almost looks like the front springs are on the rear and vise versa. The rears should have the higher rate spring so maybe they were just installed wrong from the beginning...?

Click to expand...

The front's on the 2's don't have a helper. spring rates are something like 350 front, 685 rear (metric)

I can't find pictures of my old set (sold them). but found this set on ebay, they are the Gen III/IV KW2's.

Do have a single picture below of one of the rear's I took for someone who needed reference help

mjorgensen Woodhouse said:

The fronts are the ones all the way up and for some reason there is no helper spring in there. The rear is way down and does have the helper. Not so sure that the spring rates are the stock KW, almost looks like the front springs are on the rear and vise versa. The rears should have the higher rate spring so maybe they were just installed wrong from the beginning...?

Click to expand...

Hi Mark
Springs came already installed in the box as per the picture shomn elsewhere.
Fronts could adjust way lower and Backs are almost at the bottom the way it's installed on the car in my pics

Richie7 said:

I talked to tech support at KW, they said it is not recommended to drive on full firm. A few clicks softer should solve your problem

Click to expand...

hummmm, I hate so many opinions.