Tranny ..I was wishing for F1 Paddel Style Shifter

Here is the deal with the Dual Clutch Autos.I owned 3 Vipers (1996 RT 10,1997 GTS ,2008 SRT 10) and a 2009 Corvette ZR1.I now own a 2011 Porsche 911 Turbo S w/PDK Trans w/ Launch Control.Six speed trans are fun to drive,however they in NO way compare to these new dual clutch trans,like the Porsches have.They launch the car and the shift the car perfect every time.In Sport Mode,the launch and shifts are very violent with power increases on every shift.I will buy a Gen 5 Viper,love the car ,but I will wait a little while to see if they offer a Dual Clutch Auto with it.That tran in the new Viper would be just the best.It is also is much easier to just drive around in traffic.
Some people just like to shift,that is fine.But if you want to run with the best cars out their now,one needs to go with the Hi Tect stuff like the new Trans.,AWDs and Launch Control.

The Porsche 911 TS runs 11.00 at 130 w/o LC and 10.80s with LC all day long ,Bone Stock. MY Vipers or ZR1 ran 11.50s) ,that with a good launch and if one did not screw up shifting.

Just Saying.........

aries said:

Chuck it's amazing that someone as thick skulled and ignorant as you has managed to live this long without killing yourself. Go ahead and read that post I wrote over and over until it sinks in. Where in post was I talking about F1? I was simply talking about all the "advancements" that have made it into the Viper that make life easier for the driver. In another post is where I mentioned F1 and Indy cars in regards to the "paddle shift" gearbox. I guess you get your reading or editing skills from Alan Grayson or the Huffington Post.

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I won't stoop to that level of insults. You can have that win. Congrats. You might wanna stay clear of the alley though. They'll eat you alive.

On topic, you can spin all you want. The fact remains, we (you) were referring to nanny tech and you opened the door by bringing F1 into the discussion. I simply elaborated on F1 just as you did.

I'm out.

Chuck 98 RT/10 said:

I won't stoop to that level of insults. You can have that win. Congrats. You might wanna stay clear of the alley though. They'll eat you alive.

On topic, you can spin all you want. The fact remains, we (you) were referring to nanny tech and you opened the door by bringing F1 into the discussion. I simply elaborated on F1 just as you did.

I'm out.

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Oh how noble of you Chuck not to soop to insults. Only problem with that is you're dilusional...again. Remember this gem that probably took you all day to think up "Now go back to pomology class and don't reply until you've learned the difference.". Hmmm, that sounds like an insult. Again, (it's like talking to a 5 year old) the first post I was referring to "nannies" as you call them already on the Viper, the second to the "paddle shift" gearbox in F1 and Indy. Futhermore, since you brought it up, are "paddle shift" gearboxes still in F1 or were those banned?? Yeah, thought so, they still have them.

manual = more fun, more complete control of the car, in my opinion it adds a lot to the driving experience and I'll take the .2 seconds per shift penalty of it anyday of the week for the experience.

dual clutch = faster.

I'd be fine with it being an option but clearly the cost of it is too expensive at this point as mentioned earlier. I just hope there will always be sports car offered with manual transmissions throughout my life time as I will opt for one every single time.

No matter how fast your car is, someone else's is faster.

Now if there was a HUGE performance difference I would consider learning to accept paddle shifters... but for now, it's a pretty small difference.

Mar48:3061109 said:

manual = more fun, more complete control of the car, in my opinion it adds a lot to the driving experience and I'll take the .2 seconds per shift penalty of it anyday of the week for the experience.

dual clutch = faster.

I'd be fine with it being an option but clearly the cost of it is too expensive at this point as mentioned earlier. I just hope there will always be sports car offered with manual transmissions throughout my life time as I will opt for one every single time.

No matter how fast your car is, someone else's is faster.

Now if there was a HUGE performance difference I would consider learning to accept paddle shifters... but for now, it's a pretty small difference.

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^
This is probably the best post in this thread.

Have used a paddle shift. Don't like it. On the other hand a sequential box with back up and forward down shift would be nice. Paddle seems un-natural.

FLL-B/W-GTS said:

Here is the deal with the Dual Clutch Autos.I owned 3 Vipers (1996 RT 10,1997 GTS ,2008 SRT 10) and a 2009 Corvette ZR1.I now own a 2011 Porsche 911 Turbo S w/PDK Trans w/ Launch Control.Six speed trans are fun to drive,however they in NO way compare to these new dual clutch trans,like the Porsches have.They launch the car and the shift the car perfect every time.In Sport Mode,the launch and shifts are very violent with power increases on every shift.I will buy a Gen 5 Viper,love the car ,but I will wait a little while to see if they offer a Dual Clutch Auto with it.That tran in the new Viper would be just the best.It is also is much easier to just drive around in traffic.
Some people just like to shift,that is fine.But if you want to run with the best cars out their now,one needs to go with the Hi Tect stuff like the new Trans.,AWDs and Launch Control.

The Porsche 911 TS runs 11.00 at 130 w/o LC and 10.80s with LC all day long ,Bone Stock. MY Vipers or ZR1 ran 11.50s) ,that with a good launch and if one did not screw up shifting.

Just Saying.........

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If a DSG is needed to "run with the best cars" care to explain why the ACR and ZR1 are faster around the Ring (and many other tracks) than the majority of cars equipped with a DSG? I don't see a problem with offering a dual clutch system as an option, I just hope they never do away with the manual.

I have a PDK 997 turbo and it flat flies! Love the launch control and all wheel drive. Have owned every Gen Viper, rt/10, GTS,SRT10 vert and coupe, also 10 ACR. Loved them all! But the new tech cars will kill them in a drag race. We need a DC option! Love the new Viper! Beautiful!

What are you talking about?

#1 DSG will add 60-80 lbs to the weight of the car
#2 DSG has nothing to do with cornering speed, the vehicle can corner as fast as it can corner (manual or dual clutch), you will have already selected a gear in Manual or DSG before you are turning. If you can't do that, you have no business driving a Viper (or any sports car).
#3 Porsche tested their PDK vs the Manual and the PDK wasn't ANY faster around the Nurburgring, this from their top driver.


Every car will not have paddle shifters. I argued with Chuck tooth and nail about TC needing to be on the Viper, but I agree with him on this one.

DSG is good for 0-60 and 1/4 mile, but so is AWD, so just buy yourself a GT-R and be done with it has all of the gadgets you are looking for. The Viper does not.

LEARN HOW TO DRIVE! Then there won't be such a big difference (if any) in your times vs DSG. That's something to be proud of, and man card status reinstated.

TrackAire said:

Ha, ha,....this is funny...people want to feel their Viper with a manual transmission
I assume it is because you might drive it "spirited" on a mountain road or winding road somewhere so you can push the car to its limits. The reality is, you will have to be a much better driver to get everything out of a Viper with a high performance paddle shift type trans. If your manual trans allows you to enter a corner at say 70 mph, you might now be coming into it at 75 or 80 mph with a paddle shift trans. So tell me, if your *** is getting puckered at 70 mph because you're at what you feel is the edge, do you have the skill to handle the same corner at 80 mph with the paddle shifter?

This is like telling a Formula 1 driver that they are less talented because they are not rowing the gears

Until people get to drive these cars back to back and see how much more "connected" you are with a paddle shift type trans, it's gonna be a tough sell. Imagine driving a high performance street bike with a car type trans versus a sequential trans they have now.

The good part is Viper will probably always have a manual options for those that want it. If you want a manual, buy a manual....if you want an auto, buy the auto. If Carrol Shelby had a paddle shift option for his Cobra when racing the Euros, do you think he would have passed on it?

I know as soon as SRT comes out with an auto trans option, so does my checkbook.

Cheers,
George

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You will still get molested because AWD will still have far more traction off the line, which is where the vast majority time comes from (unless you shift like grandma)

KenricGTS said:

I have a PDK 997 turbo and it flat flies! Love the launch control and all wheel drive. Have owned every Gen Viper, rt/10, GTS,SRT10 vert and coupe, also 10 ACR. Loved them all! But the new tech cars will kill them in a drag race. We need a DC option! Love the new Viper! Beautiful!

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Mar48 said:

manual = more fun, more complete control of the car, in my opinion it adds a lot to the driving experience and I'll take the .2 seconds per shift penalty of it anyday of the week for the experience.

dual clutch = faster.

I'd be fine with it being an option but clearly the cost of it is too expensive at this point as mentioned earlier. I just hope there will always be sports car offered with manual transmissions throughout my life time as I will opt for one every single time.

No matter how fast your car is, someone else's is faster.

Now if there was a HUGE performance difference I would consider learning to accept paddle shifters... but for now, it's a pretty small difference.

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My opinion is more in line with this one. I realize that some of you owners/enthusiasts (my belief is you are in the less than 5% of owners) that are looking for the bestest, fastest, greatest, mo bestest technology out there for your vipers and I really don't have a logical argument for you not getting what you want.

A few of the reasons that I own a viper are very selfish...I like it that vipers are difficult to drive...I like that there were only 30K made...I like it that there are probably only 25K left on the road (or in the garage)...I like it that I don't see but a few vipers on the road each year (and there's two in my neighborhood)...I like it that they get attention from other drivers, from pedestrians, from folks at the gas station...I like it that soccer moms, supermodels, pro athletes and 99.99% of the general public would kill themselves trying to drive a viper...so sue me. I can't stand the thought of Dodge/Fiat producing 100K vipers a year like Chevrolet produces corvettes. I'm against paddle shifters and automatic transmissions for that reason. I see thousands of corvettes every year...they're nothing special to me and to most of the world now because there are so freakin' many of them on the road. Sure, corvette owners think their special, but lets be real...we know they're not.

So there it is...I'm selfish. I like owning a car that is absolutely beautiful, ****, has a monster of an engine and can/should only be driven by car guys/gals.

My belief is once Dodge/Fiat starts down that corvette road...the viper will be just another sports car...nothing special.

"This is like telling a Formula 1 driver that they are less talented because they are not rowing the gears"

Of course it takes less talent to drive an automatic that a manual! Even the F1 drives know this.

The lack of an automatic transmission (paddle or otherwise) and the V10 are two things that makes the Viper unique. Keep the V10 and keep the manual, otherwise it becomes just another dime a dozen sports car (aka Porsche, Corvette, Nissan).....

bluestreak said:

What are you talking about?

#1 DSG will add 60-80 lbs to the weight of the car
#2 DSG has nothing to do with cornering speed, the vehicle can corner as fast as it can corner (manual or dual clutch), you will have already selected a gear in Manual or DSG before you are turning. If you can't do that, you have no business driving a Viper (or any sports car).
#3 Porsche tested their PDK vs the Manual and the PDK wasn't ANY faster around the Nurburgring, this from their top driver.


Every car will not have paddle shifters. I argued with Chuck tooth and nail about TC needing to be on the Viper, but I agree with him on this one.

DSG is good for 0-60 and 1/4 mile, but so is AWD, so just buy yourself a GT-R and be done with it has all of the gadgets you are looking for. The Viper does not.

LEARN HOW TO DRIVE! Then there won't be such a big difference (if any) in your times vs DSG. That's something to be proud of, and man card status reinstated.



You will still get molested because AWD will still have far more traction off the line, which is where the vast majority time comes from (unless you shift like grandma)

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I have stated this multiple times, the Viper should come with a manual and the option of an auto. If you think that offering an auto will destroy the Viper and invalidate your man card, oh well.

Obviously gearing really matters, the 2010 Ring run was helped by having a better 5th gear and no head wind since the 2008 car was stuck in 4th since it couldn't pull 5th gear during those runs. Who knows what the Ring time could be dropped to in a auto shifted Viper. (SRT actually has a computer model they use and can pretty much nail what the car can do at the Ring). Having multiple gears to choose from will make the car more fun in my eyes and that's what I want.

Regarding the Porsche Ring run, it matters what the horsepower is....with as big as the Ring is, 450 hp isn't the same as a 600 hp plus car.....plus I promise you the Porsche has nowhere near the downforce of the ACR. The higher horsepower the more the auto has the advantage.

The DSG won't make you corner faster, but it might make you enter the corner at a higher speed. Again, read my post, it takes much more driving skill to drive a car that has the ability to accelerate from corner to corner faster. Put an Indy Car driver in a F1 car and see how long it takes them to make the transition. Lots of F1 guys move into the Indy Cars but not too many the other way around.

Other than AWD and an auto, the new Viper GTS has all the "gadgets" of the Nissan GTR.

For those of you that want the manual, enjoy driving it, feel it is more fun, etc great!....get the manual. I'm not seeing what the issue is here if you can have the pick of either boxes. In the meantime, I'll keep trying to "LEARN HOW TO DRIVE" my two manually shifted race cars

Cheers,
George

I hope they never release a viper with paddle shifters! I don't even want it to be an option. If you really want that you can buy one and have it converted but all other viper owners will hound you until you are forced to sell out of shame haha.

The viper is all about being fast and leaving pretty much every other car on the planet in its rear view mirror. Paddle shifters are faster, it's been proven. If its faster, I want it. It's that simple.

SRT will offer a Gen.5 Viper with a PDK type trans (Duel Cluch Auto)in the future and it will be much faster than the stick Vipers.Yes,some very good drivers will match the times ,some times.But the PDK type trans will allow us average drivers to run with the best drivers all the time.Go to a Porsche Dealer that as a new Turbo S and test drive one and you will see what I mean.

That trans.in 640 Hp.Gen 5 Viper would be unbeatable and easy to drive.A lot more people will buy Vipers with that option.


2011 Porsche 911 Turbo S
2010 Ford Raptor 6.2
2008 SRT Viper Coupe
1997 GTS B/W Viper
1996 RT 10 Viper
2009 Corvette ZR1

Future Gen 5 Viper Owner

Viperless said:

Your wish may become reality in the future. The new GTS-R has a paddle shifted transmission.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwKd5W8ouew

In the meantime, maybe you can talk the SRT engineers into incorporating the downshift throttle blip into a future ECM calibration.

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I like the idea of the auto blip on the downshift, Nissan does it on the 370 Z

V10lover said:

The car should've have options for paddle shifters.

Not everyone likes or know how to drive well standard transmissions in sports cars and if they want to attract the fiatarri and porsche customers another option for transmission should be available.

Truth is they will lose a lot of sales because there is no "auto" option which in my opinion is very important when you want to sell cars and talk about expanding market reach towards customers from other brands(you offer more important options!).

It would be interesting to see the stats of how many corvettes, lambos, ferraris and porsches were sold with the paddle shifters compared to the ones sold with the stand. transmission from 5 years to now since the viper will be "fighting" in that segment and we want the new snake to live a happy long life.

The new car exterior and interior looks stunning IMO. I loved it!

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They don't make manual Ferrari's anymore if that tells you anthing.. I think both transmission options would be great..

witz323 said:

The viper is all about being fast and leaving pretty much every other car on the planet in its rear view mirror. Paddle shifters are faster, it's been proven. If its faster, I want it. It's that simple.

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There are fast cars and there are fast drivers. It isn't hard to find a fast car.

Chuck 98 RT/10 said:

There are fast cars and there are fast drivers. It isn't hard to find a fast car.

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So a fast driver in a fast car with a fast set up would be the fastest combination. If a dual clutch auto could pick up some time at the track, maybe it's a couple tenths, or maybe it's a second at the longer tracks, then I still want it. All of us on this forum (that track their cars) who are constantly tweaking our cars are certainly looking to pick up more time at the track. Be it motons, headers, aero packages, alignments, pads, rotors, WHATEVER. What's the difference of adding paddle shifters. If it can make you faster and lower your lap time, bring it on. I didn't see anyone crying about the huge wing on the ACR. The paddle shifters are no different. It's part of the evolution process in keeping the viper at the top of the pack. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Maybe you're better suited in vintage racing.

The stick H pattern shifter is OLD school now esp. for exotics, and I too would have liked the new Viper with paddles esp. for the track where lap times are greatly reduced. As mentioned it is an expensive addition though.

witz323 said:

Maybe you're better suited in vintage racing.

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That I am.

And there is most certainly a difference between a wing and paddles. If you track you know it. But fear not, you will get your paddles soon enough.

Put the trans in the rear like the race car has. Don't use the race car trans. I believe that Chrysler has a trans for their 4 wheel drive vehicles that can be easily modified for this installation?

FLL-B/W-GTS said:

if you want to run with the best cars out their now,one needs to go with the Hi Tect stuff like the new Trans.,AWDs and Launch Control.

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Incorrect. The Viper still holds records on nearly every track it has set tires on. So apperently If you want to run with the best, you need a bad-ass back-to-basics drivers car piloted by a great driver. Some of our human brains are far more complex and adaptive to a racing environment than a computer.(note i said SOME....)

FLL-B/W-GTS said:

The Porsche 911 TS runs 11.00 at 130 w/o LC and 10.80s with LC all day long ,Bone Stock. MY Vipers or ZR1 ran 11.50s) ,that with a good launch and if one did not screw up shifting.

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90some% of dragracers dont care about stock. These guys are powerhungry. They worship the boosted sub 10sec cars. ....most of which do not have traction controll or launch controll.

Mar48 said:

manual = more fun, more complete control of the car, in my opinion it adds a lot to the driving experience and I'll take the .2 seconds per shift penalty of it anyday of the week for the experience.

dual clutch = faster.

I'd be fine with it being an option but clearly the cost of it is too expensive at this point as mentioned earlier. I just hope there will always be sports car offered with manual transmissions throughout my life time as I will opt for one every single time.

No matter how fast your car is, someone else's is faster.

Now if there was a HUGE performance difference I would consider learning to accept paddle shifters... but for now, it's a pretty small difference.

Click to expand...

+1

Vooodoo ACR said:

If a DSG is needed to "run with the best cars" care to explain why the ACR and ZR1 are faster around the Ring (and many other tracks) than the majority of cars equipped with a DSG? I don't see a problem with offering a dual clutch system as an option, I just hope they never do away with the manual.

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Right. +1

witz323 said:

The viper is all about being fast and leaving pretty much every other car on the planet in its rear view mirror. Paddle shifters are faster, it's been proven. If its faster, I want it. It's that simple.

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See above. Viper is still the fastest. Records made 2 years ago are still held and we have a faster Viper coming out next year that will eventualy break its own records.

witz323 said:

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

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No, If you do like it then do buy it. No-one is stopping you from adding an aftermarket trans to your car. Several racers have done it. Go to a viperdays and have a sit in some of the compcoupes for starters.
Your way "If you don't like it, don't buy it"; only a handfull of you guys get what you want and the rest are left with a $150K viper they dont want.
My way everyone gets what they want

Have some consideration.

Life is about choices. Why not offer both transmissions to satisfy both enthusiasts choices. I personally love manuals even if its slower than the new tech but I definately see the value of the DSG in high hp cars. It would make dollars and "sense" for SRT to offer both transmissions as it will attract the Porsche etc drivers. I understand the ******** faithful not wanting to water down the Viper experience but thats would be what the SRT Viper package would take care of. Best of both worlds that give each type of enthusiast his/her fix. Whats wrong with that???

VIPER GTSR 91 said:

The stick H pattern shifter is OLD school now esp. for exotics, and I too would have liked the new Viper with paddles esp. for the track where lap times are greatly reduced. As mentioned it is an expensive addition though.

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"Greatly Reduced" No,
"Expensive", Yes

Lets break it down though:
A stock cars lap times can be improved by 10's of seconds with basic modifications like a stiffer suspension, aerodynamics, stickier tires, ect... Lets say you could do $10K in mods and achieve a laptime that is 10 seconds better.

Now to gain just 1 more second you've got to spend another 20grand or whatever for a race trans.

so, $10K for 10+ seconds, then $20K for another 1 sec

I and most do not see the cost benefit in the trans but certainly could care less if someone decides it is worth it to them. Spend your money as you'd like. Make a few phonecalls, anything is possible. I could have a dodge 3-speed auto out of a neon put in your viper for the right price.

SnakeBitten said:

Whats wrong with that???

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With SRT's current budget & production volume it is likely not currently feasable. The R&D cost would be too high and not enough units would sell to cover it so the cost so it would be spread across the entire Viper line. Sure after a few years if Viper sales are up and more prospective clients are asking for the DCT then perhaps dodge will be able to accomodate them. Only time will tell.

Dom426h said:

With SRT's current budget & production volume it is likely not currently feasable. The R&D cost would be too high and not enough units would sell to cover it so the cost so it would be spread across the entire Viper line. Sure after a few years if Viper sales are up and more prospective clients are asking for the DCT then perhaps dodge will be able to accomodate them. Only time will tell.

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That makes perfect sense Dom. But wasnt it was SRT that listed cars like the Porsche and Aston Martin as a target of the new Viper? I read that in an article linked on this site. I just assumed they had the DCT thing figured out since they mentioned those kind of cars as competition. Specfically the Porsche.

FLL-B/W-GTS said:

the PDK type trans will allow us average drivers to run with the best drivers all the time.

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There is alot more than a second or two separating the average drivers from the best drivers all the time.
Your throttle inputs,
braking inputs,
steering inputs,
driving line,
are all far more important than you shifting ability. If you dont have the above stuff perfected then a fancy trans worth a sec on the track is not going to bring you anywhere near the level of the best drivers all the time.

For the average driver a session with an instructor will make them much faster than a fancy transmission ever will.

SnakeBitten said:

Specfically the Porsche.

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I do not know alot about porshes but i do know that the GT2 and GT3 enthusiests also love the viper. Why, it is one in the same. A drivers car that is awesome on the track. Every GT2&GT3 that i have seen on the street andd the track (about5) has had a standard gearbox.

Im sure that the SRT marketing department has done their share of analysing the potential new customers for our G5. 30-percent of current 911 sales are manual transmission-equipped vehicles(source_autoguide). These are possibly the type of drivers that are interested in the Gen5 Viper.

SnakeBitten:3063312 said:

Life is about choices. Why not offer both transmissions to satisfy both enthusiasts choices. I personally love manuals even if its slower than the new tech but I definately see the value of the DSG in high hp cars. It would make dollars and "sense" for SRT to offer both transmissions as it will attract the Porsche etc drivers. I understand the ******** faithful not wanting to water down the Viper experience but thats would be what the SRT Viper package would take care of. Best of both worlds that give each type of enthusiast his/her fix. Whats wrong with that???

Click to expand...

I agree with these comments. Its evolution of the automobile, as long as there are choices so everyone can get the car the way they want it the Viper will be on more drivers radar. Change sometimes doesn't feel right or make sense, time will tell. Has there been this much debate/concerns/floggings/etc at every introduction of a new generation Viper?