Black Box Data

DPViper

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I was reading all the positive news this morning and came across this....."A bill already passed by the Senate and set to be rubber stamped by the House would make it mandatory for all new cars in the United States to be fitted with black box data recorders from 2015 onwards". Does anyone know what new systems are going to be in the Gen V? Thanks
 
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There are quite a few cars out already that have had this capability, but it has largely been only used for crash information I don't think that it can be used to prosecute anyone or to deny warranty claims, but I could be wrong also.
 

MoparBoyy

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There are quite a few cars out already that have had this capability, but it has largely been only used for crash information I don't think that it can be used to prosecute anyone or to deny warranty claims, but I could be wrong also.

+1. I have personally seen it used when a crashes resulting in death or when people are suing Chrysler cause "it was the cars fault i crashed thru the McDonalds"

just more of a nanny state, and increasing the cost of every car you buy... sad really.
 

SnakeBitten

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I believe I read the GTR has such a box. Only car I can think of that I heard had one. Interesting Orwellian future we seem to be heading toward.
 

Vic

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Mercedes has a system being sold on cars right now, that can sense when you're tired by monitoring your facial parameters, and wake your asz back up.

And there's work right now on laptop computers than can gauge your mood.

By extension, this software algorithm could be modified further, and also gauge your response, when you are being fed propaganda.

In Orwells' "1984" the telescreen was a two-way transfer of information, between a totalitarian governemnt and it's subjects. The telescreen was on all the time, telling you what to think, what to feel, and how to interpret events. It gauged also your response to the constant barrage of government propaganda. To think a private thought, the main character Winston had to go to a far corner of the room, turn his back to the telescreen, and think "quietly", to avoid detection. If the telescreen sensed emotion, if you weren't buying the government's propaganda, weren't swallowing it whole, the men in black shirts came to your house late at night and take you away to a government reassessment camp.

Thank God for my tin foil hat.....
 
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ViperGTS

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'they' record my credit card details, buys, flight tickets, seat number, meal choosen, no of cases checked in, hotels booked, rentals & everything...................................................:eater:

1984.

Back in the 1970's it was SCI-FI for me when we read the book in high school.

Cool?

No.
 

Vic

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Google tracks your searches, to "tailor" advertising to your interests.

Sounds innocuous enough.

And Progressive has that monitor you plug into your OBD II port, and if you're a good, safe little driver, they give you reduced rates.

Sounds innocuous enough.

Bit by bit, day by day, autonomy errodes in the name of safety, security, expedience.

The frog never jumps out of the water, until it boils to death. Death by a thousand little "innocuous" cuts.

Today, people say, "Don't stick your neck out, don't rock the boat, just go along with the program"

How many today say "Give me liberty, or give me death!", such as our great patriot Patrick Henry?
 
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Vic

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We've got the Tea Party already...

What's next, the "Tin Foil hat" party? :lmao:
 

Allan

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GM's OnStar sent me an E-mail about a similar issue awhile back, something about courts or law enforcement having access to vehicle data to prosecute for speeding / or accident fault, or whatever. Ended up that was deemed some kind of infringement on our rights to privacy something or other. ---I'm glad. ...I have a 2011 Corvette for a daily driver w/OnStar.......I also have a Valentine One..... I thought the sign said 165mph........oops......anyway, it'll probably be a few before big brother changes the privacy rules on us.
 

SilveRT8

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Every month Onstar sends me a report about my '12 Caddy CTS-V. It shows millage, oil life %, condition of every system, it even tells me what pressure in each tire !!!
They know everything.
 

johniew398

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There are quite a few cars out already that have had this capability, but it has largely been only used for crash information I don't think that it can be used to prosecute anyone or to deny warranty claims, but I could be wrong also.

Car's black box may be key in ****** case

BY CHAU LAM
STAFF WRITER

September 14, 2004

The so-called automobile black box, a device that helps determine what happened in the seconds leading up to a collision, has emerged as a key piece of evidence in the ****** case against two North Shore men who allegedly caused a crash in 2002 that killed a Westbury couple.

The apparatus, similar to a flight data recorder found in airplanes, was factory-installed in the 2000 Corvette driven by Kyle Soukup, then 17, of Brookville. Nassau prosecutors said Soukup was racing against a second driver, Blake Slade, then 19, of Muttontown, who was driving a 2002 Mercedes. Their cars plowed into a Jeep, killing Sophia Bretous, 23, and her fiance, Jean Desir, 31.

Data stored in the Corvette's black box, officially known as an event data recorder, showed that four and five seconds before the crash Soukup was driving at 139 mph, said Assistant District Attorney Michael Walsh. Soukup and Slade were driving in a 55 mph zone. Both have been indicted on two counts of second-degree ****** under the theory of depraved indifference to human life.

Walsh is asking Court of Claims Justice Alan Honorof in Mineola to permit him to use data retrieved from the Corvette's black box as evidence in Soukup's and Slade's upcoming ****** trial. Information retrieved from a vehicle's black box has never been admitted as evidence in a criminal case in New York, Walsh said, although other states, such as California and Florida, have allowed it.

A hearing began Monday, and is expected to last several days, to determine whether technology found in the automobile black boxes is generally accepted by experts in the accident reconstruction field. At the conclusion of the hearing, Honorof will decide whether or not jurors will be allowed to hear the information.

The use of black boxes in automobiles has raised concerns about privacy rights among some.

Mark Rasch, senior vice president of Solutionary, Inc., an Omaha, Neb.-based computer security company said most consumers don't know their movements are being recorded and said they should be allowed to opt out of the surveillance. Rasch, the former head of the U.S. Justice Department's computer crime unit, added that anyone interested in obtaining the data from a vehicle should be allowed to do so only with a court order. Lawmakers in California, for example, passed a law recently requiring just that.

On June 10, 2002, police said, Soukup and Slade were driving north on Route 106 in Muttontown. Witnesses told police that the teenagers were driving side-by-side as they accelerated, which Walsh said indicated they were engaging in a speeding contest. Bretous and Desir, riding in the 1993 Jeep, were turning left from Route 106 onto Muttontown Road, when their Jeep was slammed by the cars driven by Soukup and Slade.

Although it's rare to prosecute a person for ****** in fatal car crashes, Walsh said his office decided to do so in this case due to several factors, including the fact that Soukup and Slade were reckless, racing in an area where there are homes with driveways leading onto Route 106, Walsh said. But the main factor his office is prosecuting the young men for ******, Walsh said, was the excessive speed.

"There comes a point in time where speed alone is enough," Walsh said Monday.

William R. Haight, an accident reconstruction expert at the San Diego-based Collision Safety Institute who testified for the prosecution, said the black box technology has been used by the aviation industry since the 1940s. He has conducted test of car crashes and compared the results to the data found in a car's black box and found that they are virtually the same.

"Time after time after time, we get the same answer," Haight testified Monday.

Attorneys for Soukup, now 19, declined to comment but they appeared to attack the data's accuracy with the introduction at the hearing of two published articles written by those in the accident reconstruction field.

John Kase, the attorney for Slade, who is now 21, said his client was speeding but not as fast as the prosecution claims. Kase, of Garden City, said he is opposed to allowing data from the Corvette's black box into trial but finds it more troubling that his client has been charged with ******.

"I have been unable to find any prosecution where speed alone is the basis for ******," Kase said.

Gladys and Ferne Bretous, parents of the dead woman, attended the hearing. The impact of the crash broke the Jeep into three pieces, Ferne Bretous said. "It's got to be ******," he said.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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They have been in cars for years.
Car's black box may be key in ****** case

So begins the propaganda. What will seal the deal will be the headline "Black Box Saves Child from Serial Rapists" Everybody will be all for giving up their freedom and privacy for black boxes and anyone against black boxes will be accused of supporting pedophiles. The mentality is here guys. It's just a matter of time before they prove me right...again.
 

MoparMan

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So begins the propaganda. What will seal the deal will be the headline "Black Box Saves Child from Serial Rapists" Everybody will be all for giving up their freedom and privacy for black boxes and anyone against black boxes will be accused of supporting pedophiles. The mentality is here guys. It's just a matter of time before they prove me right...again.

Exactly! Our liberties are being stolen from us one by one by this government. It's happening so slowly that most don't know what's going on. There'll be a day when those sort of people wake up and wonder where all their freedoms went; well, they're losing them now with these seemingly innocuous changes in law and public policy.
 

propsail

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How does it look like?, where is it located on an 05?, can it be disabled?, does it matter if it is disabled?

They are metal boxes, about 6"x6"x1" usually placed under the passenger seat under the carpet, but not always. I don't know about your specific vehicle. No, they cannot be disabled without severely impacting the vehicles functionality. The event recorder is tied into several key systems in the vehicle, including airbags and seatbelt pre-tensioners that hold you in place in the event of a frontal crash.

We've been discussing this topic since 2006 (see all the old threads), and I've said this before: I know no one wants this data to be out there, but think of it from the other perspective. It can prove innocence as well as guilt. It can also prove that the ass that hit your car and injured your family was driving like a maniac. It works both ways.

Craig
 

viper067

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I don't recall having to prove innocence. Isn't it innocent until proven guilty?


We've been discussing this topic since 2006 (see all the old threads), and I've said this before: I know no one wants this data to be out there, but think of it from the other perspective. It can prove innocence as well as guilt. It can also prove that the ass that hit your car and injured your family was driving like a maniac. It works both ways.

Craig
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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It can prove innocence as well as guilt. It can also prove that the ass that hit your car and injured your family was driving like a maniac. It works both ways.

Craig

More propaganda. Sure, give up freedom 24/7/365/Life for that one extremely rare, improbability that a black box will exonerate them. The cost of freedom isn't limited to soldiers dying on battlefields, civilians payment is an imperfect system that occasionally gets it wrong, but freedom still wins.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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How does it look like?, where is it located on an 05?, can it be disabled?, does it matter if it is disabled?

You can bet there is a law against disabling it. Just like there is a law against removing airbags even though airbags kill 60 children and adults every year. If you get a letter from a few dozen federal agencies you can legally ask a dealer to remove them. They might still say no but you can ask.
 

Vic

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In the case of traffic tickets, you are guilty until proven innocent. Try and tell the judge your perspective on an event, and the judge will take the cops' story every time. I was going through an intersection, and the light turned red while I was exactly half-way accross the center of the intersection, which is ok by Ca Vehicle Code. A cop coming the other way said I ran the red light. I tried to fight it, but the judge ruled I was guilty, just based on the cops' word. I so wish I had a dash cam, to make him eat his words....

So there's an example of a recording device that I wouldn't mind having.

Hey, you know what we really need? A recording device that just records the facts when they are in our favor, but hides the truth when we're guilty! Kinda of a "blinking" black box! :)


We've been discussing this topic since 2006 (see all the old threads), and I've said this before: I know no one wants this data to be out there, but think of it from the other perspective. It can prove innocence as well as guilt. It can also prove that the ass that hit your car and injured your family was driving like a maniac. It works both ways.

Craig
 

Photog1

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Google tracks your searches, to "tailor" advertising to your interests.

Sounds innocuous enough.

And Progressive has that monitor you plug into your OBD II port, and if you're a good, safe little driver, they give you reduced rates.

Sounds innocuous enough.

Bit by bit, day by day, autonomy errodes in the name of safety, security, expedience.

The frog never jumps out of the water, until it boils to death. Death by a thousand little "innocuous" cuts.

Today, people say, "Don't stick your neck out, don't rock the boat, just go along with the program"

How many today say "Give me liberty, or give me death!", such as our great patriot Patrick Henry?


:2tu: We had better wake up!!:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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In the case of traffic tickets, you are guilty until proven innocent. Try and tell the judge your perspective on an event, and the judge will take the cops' story every time. I was going through an intersection, and the light turned red while I was exactly half-way accross the center of the intersection, which is ok by Ca Vehicle Code. A cop coming the other way said I ran the red light. I tried to fight it, but the judge ruled I was guilty, just based on the cops' word. I so wish I had a dash cam, to make him eat his words....

So there's an example of a recording device that I wouldn't mind having.

Hey, you know what we really need? A recording device that just records the facts when they are in our favor, but hides the truth when we're guilty! Kinda of a "blinking" black box! :)

What's the fine in California Vic, $351? Are you really willing to give up freedom and privacy for the possibility of getting out of a $351 ticket? The black box probably wouldn't help anyway, the system wants you to pay $1000 for a lawyer, THEN the judge will dismiss the case.
 
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