Mobil 1 oil filter vs Mopar Viper spec

Mad Max · Sep 5, 2012

Here is the M-1 cut apart. The steel housing is 0.018 thick.

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Mad Max · Sep 5, 2012

NAPA GOLD. This is a used filter, the other 2 are new and unused. The steel housing is 0.013 thick.

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As you can see they are each different from the others. The Viper filter has the thickest housing.

Invasivore · Sep 5, 2012

I wonder the filtering capability of the Mobil 1 vs Viper Spec ?

I know in the high performance diesel world when I had a Cummins, everyone who used a Mobil 1 yielded the best UOA's.

Mad Max · Sep 5, 2012

Here is all 3 filter elements side by side. Guess which one is the longest? From left to right, Viper, M-1, NAPA Gold.

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Got_Vnum · Sep 6, 2012

MadMax - thank you for taking one for the team and cutting up your new filters. Just out of curiosity, how many pleats does the Viper filter have vs. the M1?

CEJ · Sep 6, 2012

Max, thank you for posting the filter photos. The SRT filter is on my shopping list!

Invasivore · Sep 6, 2012

Yeah, if you can unwind the filter media and measure length

dave6666 · Sep 6, 2012

Dom426h said:
..........

I want to see a report on what they tested, what the parameters are / were, and what the results are / were. That should not be proprietary. Saying "we tested them" is part of the problem. Whoopti damn doo doo. You tested them. SHOW ME THE TESTS!!!

In other news, anybody report any M1-204 failures?

Anybody?

dave6666 · Sep 6, 2012

Invasivore said:
Yeah, if you can unwind the filter media and measure length

And then after that give me the pore size of the media. Of course I'll need average pore size and the pore size distribution. For that same filter media, give me the filter efficiency based on anticipated contaminant loading over the life of the filter.

Or just measure how long it is and call it good.

mjorgensen Woodhouse · Sep 6, 2012

I am not an engineer by any means and will defer to those who are. One of the things I see as a negative for the M1 filter is that it uses a cheap flat bypass spring compared to the more durable effective/consistent coil spring one in the Viper and NAPA filters. Regardless of what happens when everything is warmed up I would think that cold start debris would be the worst thing. If the spring is weak or can become weak with use, going into a bypass condition would be a bad thing correct? I would think that "over filtering the oil may push the M1 to bypass even earlier then the others. Most engine builders have an idea of what is acceptable for particle size don't they? If the Viper filter was not good enough wouldn't they change it, after all they have to warranty the engine.

Just ramblings to join in the conversation,

Invasivore · Sep 6, 2012

dave6666 said:
Or just measure how long it is and call it good.

Hey, just following what your wife told me to do :dunno:

dave6666 · Sep 6, 2012

Invasivore said:
Hey, just following what your wife told me to do

So since you don't know anything about filters you make personal family attacks? That makes you an ass wipe. A stupid ass wipe.

I'm not married dip ship. Go back to coloring on the stalls with drool.

dave6666 · Sep 6, 2012

mjorgensen Woodhouse said:
I am not an engineer by any means and will defer to those who are. One of the things I see as a negative for the M1 filter is that it uses a cheap flat bypass spring compared to the more durable effective/consistent coil spring one in the Viper and NAPA filters. Regardless of what happens when everything is warmed up I would think that cold start debris would be the worst thing. If the spring is weak or can become weak with use, going into a bypass condition would be a bad thing correct? I would think that "over filtering the oil may push the M1 to bypass even earlier then the others. Most engine builders have an idea of what is acceptable for particle size don't they? If the Viper filter was not good enough wouldn't they change it, after all they have to warranty the engine.

Just ramblings to join in the conversation,

Mark, it's not so much that the Mopar filter is right. But more so that the M1-204 isn't wrong. Filtration and engine wear is way more technical than the measurements that have been produced on contributor's workbenches with calipers and tape measures. Way more technical. And that is the info I'm asking the engineers that specify the filter components to produce for review. The industry I'm in if all you did was say "we researched and developed it," you'd get laughed out of the house. So either the Mopar filter really hasn't had that much science behind it, or they are arrogantly ignoring a customer base.

VCA Forum Staff · Sep 6, 2012

Alright everyone....Lets stop the personal attacks and get this thread back on track. If this continues we will close the thread.

Invasivore · Sep 6, 2012

dave6666 said:
I'm not married dip ship.

Big surprise :rolaugh:

Invasivore · Sep 6, 2012

Btw I was being a smart ass because you were being one. If you can't take it, don't dish it!

Lee00blacksilverGTS · Sep 6, 2012

It's one thing to be a smart ass and kid someone else who was being a smart ass. Actually I'm not even sure Dave was kidding, I think he had his serious geek engineer hat on. But it's a whole new and unacceptable level to do a "family take." That would be considered the worst form of personal attack. And personal attacks are NOT permitted on the forums and can lead to vacations for those who violate policy. Please be aware of that next time.

Invasivore · Sep 6, 2012

Copy. Sarcastic smart ass trying to mumble tech info he read on the Internet= allowed. Family comments= not allowed. Is there a reference of approved sarcastic comments somewhere on the site?

Got_Vnum · Sep 6, 2012

Bigger filter media is good but I also would like to see hard facts. What is the measured contaminant capacity? What is the efficiency rating based on standard ISO tests of known particle size? Purolater prints these facts right on the box so they should not be proprietary information to Mopar. SRT engineers are you reading this?

Oilman1934 · Sep 6, 2012

This is all being overly analyized. I would bet 99percent of the people on this forum change the filter and oil way to early anyway and here you are fighting about the length of the media cartridge In the wise words of Eric Cartman ( screw you guys im going home!)

dave6666 · Sep 6, 2012

Invasivore said:
Copy. Sarcastic smart ass trying to mumble tech info he read on the Internet= allowed. Family comments= not allowed. Is there a reference of approved sarcastic comments somewhere on the site?

After 30+ years in chemical engineering, what you'll find on the internet about filtration, I wrote *****.

Sorry you find smart people difficult to understand.

Greg Good Cylinder Heads · Sep 6, 2012

The reason for filter housings failing at the crimp has been posted in other threads, and is worth re-posting here.

Todd at Arrow Racing Engines told me that they have measured cold start oil pressure on Viper engines at slightly over 300 PSI. It doesn't stay there long enough to register on the oil pressure gauge, but it's long enough to burst a weak filter.

I've only had one customer with this problem. He burst several 090's. The filter he ended up with was the Mobil 1. It's good to go. I do however prefer the extra media of the Viper filter.

Does anyone have specs on the micron rating of the media on the Viper filter?

klamathpro · Sep 6, 2012

dave6666 said:
From an engineering perspective...

Going to a thicker oil and seeing more oil pressure can be an illusion of improvement. Pressure is caused by resistance to flow, but before I go too much further, I'd like to point out that since the oil pump is a positive displacement pump, that the relationship between the flow of oil A to oil B, is somewhat equalized by that fact. Back to pressure and flow, as the pressure is higher, the thicker oil could be actually flowing less due to more resistance of trying to get through the journals. An adequate flow of oil is important, whatever that volume may be.

I see what you're saying, but all I know is Dick Winkles said to go to a thicker oil and a quality filter (over the 090) and it cured all my oil pressure issues at the track. I don't think the Mobile 1 filter did this on it's own. But with the 090 and 10w30, pressure would drop to 20 PSI at times and the check engine light would flash rapidly after just a couple laps. Making the changes allowed me to go all day with PSI never dropping below 40 and averaging at 60 all day long with no flashing CEL at the same track.

AZTVR · Sep 6, 2012

My two cents about why Mopar engineers don't supply specific info on the filter design. Possibly advice from lawyers not to share Intellectual Property. Also possible that they have no real incentive to share. I am guessing that they don't actually care whether we decide to use a Mobil 1 filter or the filter that they deemed to be what they wanted. Like others have said, Mobil 1 filters are apparently very well thought of and probably good enough for the conditions that most people subject their car to. The Mopar engineers have no control over what goes into anyone else's filter or how it will be revised a week from Tuesday, so, they recommend the design that they have chosen.

bbirch · Sep 7, 2012

I can assure you that Dick Winkles understands oil and filter performance. When he speaks I listen.

coupe · Sep 7, 2012

Mad Max (or anyone else), could you open up an 090 Mopar Filter and place pics in this thread for comparison too? I've been running those due to availabilty, but I change oil religiously.

Got_Vnum · Sep 7, 2012

coupe said:
Mad Max (or anyone else), could you open up an 090 Mopar Filter and place pics in this thread for comparison too? I've been running those due to availabilty, but I change oil religiously.

It was done on BITOG here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2556109

Invasivore · Sep 7, 2012

dave6666 said:
After 30+ years in chemical engineering, what you'll find on the internet about filtration, I wrote *****.

Sorry you find smart people difficult to understand.

I apologize for making fun of your mythical wife. I promise I won't make fun of your mythical self confidence on the internet too.

dave6666 · Sep 9, 2012

Says the guy that can't figure out if he likes the green one or the pink one.

malcoll · Sep 9, 2012

dave6666 said:
After 30+ years in chemical engineering, what you'll find on the internet about filtration, I wrote *****.

Sorry you find smart people difficult to understand.

You know... I was going to chime in... in defense of you Dave....but clearly that is unneccesary..... you have once again outgunned the the guy who brought a knife to the gunfight!

Carry on! And I have been using the Mobil 1 filter, the only item that I have read with some concern is the bypass valve....

Mobil 1 oil filter vs Mopar Viper spec

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