Proper Downshifting in the GenV

Read the Owner's Manual on line a couple of times and while they talk about properly breaking in the car, there's no info on how to properly downshift. Upshifting is pretty obvious and there's really only one way to do it. But with downshifting there's a debate with manual transmissions as to whether the operator should select each lower gear on the way down (IE go from 5th to 4th to 3rd to 2nd) or whether he should just place the car in neutral and come to a stop, or whether he should keep the car in high gear and then place in neutral at the stop. I realize that different drivers will do all different styles. But what is the majority of snake drivers doing?

I havent had a manual in years and the closest thing recently I've had is an e-gear transmission and I personally chose to rev match RPM's with each gear in downshifting all the way down. I've heard arguments for preserving brake wear v. clutch wear and arguments of being in gear and therefore in control v. beig in neutral and not so much. Also, obviously the car redlines mid 6000RPM but what is reasonably shift interval on the way up for street crusing(not track time?) 3500? 4000?

Would love to hear what the couple hundred owners of gen V have been doing this past week of ownership or from previous gen owners or better yet from SRT engineers themselves. Sorry if this question has already been presented.

It depends on the reason why you are downshifting. If just to pass a car on the highway, 1 gear down is probably all that is needed. If you want to take off hard from a rolling start, then select the proper gear to do so. We usually take off in 2nd at 60 mph when running the car hard. That usually puts you in your rpm sweet spot. Most guys lose races from being in too high of a gear when they take off.

You simply need to drive the car and get a feeling to which gear works best at 50-60, 70-80, etc... And, always gradually let out on the clutch, and rev-match to keep from upsetting the car.

For cruising, sub-2000 rpm is fine. For racing, you want to be above 4000 rpm to start off. Maybe even 4500 rpm in the 5th gen.

Do not put the car in neutral and brake to a stop. I always downshift when slowing down, and push the clutch in when stopping. You will get the hang of it quickly if you have had manuals in the past. My Gen 4 is easy to drive and my test drive in the Gen 5 at Charlotte felt just as easy.

The great thing about a manual is that you can have fun rowing the gearbox up and down or if you are braking hard in a tracking situation you can skip right to the gear you know you need and rev match based on experience. Some will say that you should use the engine braking of each gear, but some will say that it is not good to put the unnecessary stresses on engine, trans, diff and axles doing so for each situation. Just do what you feel comfortable with though. Personally I like rowing and think I'm a master at rev matching ;-)

God, its been 10 years since I semi-regularly drove a manual.

But, I did learn to drive tractors and dump trucks at age 8, so, it should come back quite easily LOL

I'm so glad you posted this, as I was reading the manual last night and came upon this

"Skip Shift Indicator Light
There are times when you must shift the transmission
directly from first gear into fourth gear
instead of from first gear into second gear. This
is to help you get the best possible fuel
economy from your vehicle. This occurs when engine
coolant is higher than 107°F (42°C), and vehicle speed is
greater than 16 mph (26 km/h) but less than 18 mph
(29 km/h), and engine speed is less than 1,650 RPM, and
the transmission is in first gear, and the accelerator is at
20% throttle or less. The “Skip Shift Indicator Light”
located in the tachometer will illuminate during these
times.
When the “Skip Shift Indicator Light” illuminates, the
shift mechanism will only allow shifts from first gear to
fourth gear. After you shift the transmission into fourth
gear, you can press the clutch in and shift to another
forward gear."

which seems really strange. Do other gen Vipers have this creation? It seems very odd to me that you would need to be between "16 MPH and 18 MPH" and only be allowed to "shift from first gear to fourth gear"? I cannot imagine that is good for the transmission, esp when the recommended shift speeds are nowhere near that low.

Thoughts?

Policy Limits said:

Read the Owner's Manual on line a couple of times and while they talk about properly breaking in the car, there's no info on how to properly downshift.

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I have read the manual, but could not find the "break in" part. Can you help point me to the right part?

My bad, found it on pg. 59.

Couldn't find option to delete post.

I hate forced skip shifts. I hope there will be a way to defeat this. Anyone know?

VENOM V said:

I hate forced skip shifts. I hope there will be a way to defeat this. Anyone know?

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There is - just keep the car in first gear a little longer and/or give it more gas. I've only ever had the skip shift light come on a few times in 10's of thousands of miles of Viper driving and I never let the mechanism force me directly into 4th gear. The whole thing is something they added to improve the MPG rating a lower the gas guzzler tax.

or just wait a couple of seconds until the skip shift turns off.

I was always instructed and told that braking / slowing the car coming up to a light by downshifting and letting the motor slow you down ---does place wear on the transmission, clutch, etc...

I always thought the rule of 'brake pads/fluid' are a lot cheaper than clutches and transmissions............So, as I slow down and coasting in to a light, I place in neutral and then use the brakes to then slow down and stop.....

I also try NOT to rev the car from a dead-stop in 1st. Why make the clutch work harder when you don't have to. So much Torque in these V10s, mine essentially needs no throttle 'off-idle' to get moving.....

Assume the above rules apply to Gen V's as well.......

Mark,

You are pretty good at rev matching, I have to admit, but clothes matching, wow are you a mess. Yep your socks don't match again , and what is with the red Piloti shoes at work -- whew!!!!

Heal-Toe downshifting is about getting in the appropriate gear prior to entering a turn so that you do not upset the car mid-turn by playing with the clutch.

IMO Heel-Toe'ing is mainly for the track where you are threshold braking. Also can be used on the street for situations like spirited back road runs where you are braking hard before entering a turn and want to drop a gear to power on through.

I do not think a manual trans should be downshifting through all the gears when coming to a stop on public roads. Under light/medium braking it is harder to revmatch with the heel/toe and you are more likely to cause syncro wear, clutch wear, and waste fuel. If your not using some method of rev-matching then you are definitely wearing those items.

That being said, sometimes when i am in 4th or 5th and approaching a braking zone weather it be a redlight or exit ramp i will rev-match to 3rd or 4th or both (prior to braking)(No heel/toe, just toe) for a few reasons:
-Its easy to consistantly do
-It makes a cool sound
-It puts me in the gear i want to be in
-delays&lessens my braking effort
-the explosions from my exhaust at 1500rpms sound much better slowing down in 3rd&4th than 5th.
I do not further downshift to 2nd or 1st because at that point i am on the brakes and do not want to accelerate wear on those sncro's cause i'd like for my trans to go for a long time before having to rebuild.

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I am curious to hear from other experienced drivers on their detailed downshifting techniques

Toe-heel shifting is the coolest skill one can have....it's a lost art and most folks don't have a clue what it is I personally do it whenever in higher revs....makes for a much smoother downshifts and safes the transmission. But for coasting to a stop, it is pretty pointless unless you want the cool engine sound....I see myself doing it sometimes just to hear the exhaust As for engine break-in....I have no clue if you should go through the gears or not, but as long as you rev match, I don't see why it should be bad.

Dom426h said:

Heal-Toe downshifting is about getting in the appropriate gear prior to entering a turn so that you do not upset the car mid-turn by playing with the clutch.

IMO Heel-Toe'ing is mainly for the track where you are threshold braking. Also can be used on the street for situations like spirited back road runs where you are braking hard before entering a turn and want to drop a gear to power on through.

I do not think a manual trans should be downshifting through all the gears when coming to a stop on public roads. Under light/medium braking it is harder to revmatch with the heel/toe and you are more likely to cause syncro wear, clutch wear, and waste fuel. If your not using some method of rev-matching then you are definitely wearing those items.

That being said, sometimes when i am in 4th or 5th and approaching a braking zone weather it be a redlight or exit ramp i will rev-match to 3rd or 4th or both (prior to braking)(No heel/toe, just toe) for a few reasons:
-Its easy to consistantly do
-It makes a cool sound
-It puts me in the gear i want to be in
-delays&lessens my braking effort
-the explosions from my exhaust at 1500rpms sound much better slowing down in 3rd&4th than 5th.
I do not further downshift to 2nd or 1st because at that point i am on the brakes and do not want to accelerate wear on those sncro's cause i'd like for my trans to go for a long time before having to rebuild.

------------------------------------------------------
I am curious to hear from other experienced drivers on their detailed downshifting techniques

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^^^Exactly what I do, and for the same reasons.

With Vipers you can do what ever technique pleases you. They are very flexible.

When coming down from higher speeds, I often downshift a bit to enjoy the engine braking.

Blipping just a bit to match revs feel great, and when you get it just right it is a very rewarding feeling.

But as others have said, "Brakes are cheaper than transmissions". No harm will come from just using your brakes to slow down while in gear, then putting the clutch in when you are slowed down.

As far as breaking in proceedure, anything goes as long as you do not heavily stress any components for the first 500-1000 miles.

Enjoy your new Viper. They are tremendously engaging vehicles to drive.

mjorgensen Woodhouse said:

The great thing about a manual is that you can have fun rowing the gearbox up and down or if you are braking hard in a tracking situation you can skip right to the gear you know you need and rev match based on experience. Some will say that you should use the engine braking of each gear, but some will say that it is not good to put the unnecessary stresses on engine, trans, diff and axles doing so for each situation. Just do what you feel comfortable with though. Personally I like rowing and think I'm a master at rev matching ;-)

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Like Mark, I enjoy downshifting one gear at a time, and heel-toeing (blipping) the throttle with each downshift while braking - and the V10 sounds greeaaaaaat when you do this! But it does take some practice to get it right, so be patient and keep at it for those of you who haven't learned how to heel & toe downshift yet.

Oh, and I totally agree with Pemberton's assessment of Mark's attire. Thanks for saying it Bill, 'cause we were all thinking it

PS. SRT Engineering would be interested in your feedback about heel & toe downshifting your Viper, or other cars you drive. What you like, what you don't like - post your thoughts

(and thanks for listening!)

I downshift every gear even into 1st and its my daily ride. The engine and tranny on these cars are monsters for a reason and can handle pretty much anything you throw at it.

yeah i'd prefer to downshift each gear and rev match RPM's. That seems to be the overall vote here too. Rukcus.....VERY impressive that u daily drive it!! You've gotta be in the minority of snake owners? My car is only gonna be a sunday car and see about 2k miles annually. but props to u for actually driving it!

Ill be in the DD club for my Gen V. Selling my BMW once the snake gets in.

Gotta enjoy my last year of living (wife wants to start trying for kids :'()

I'm a downshifter....except to 1st. It's just FUN, sounds great, and keeps the brake dust down.

I can confirm , ruckus gets maximum use from his Viper and is very passionate about enjoying it .

rukcus said:

I downshift every gear even into 1st and its my daily ride. The engine and tranny on these cars are monsters for a reason and can handle pretty much anything you throw at it.

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Thank you sir, for pointing out what is obvious to you and I, but not so clear to others.

Listen closely, SRT readers: we at SRT Engineering have purchased (like some of you) many competitive products. However, unlike you, we immediately put our cars under severe SRT track racing conditions. The 'closest' competitive vehicle to a Viper (yes, you know which 638 hp car we're talking about) is a cool car, but it failed (meaning it broke down, would not run, repeatedly...) so many times in our routine testing (seriously), that we finally scrapped the car. Yes, we seriously threw it in the garbage before it finished (because it could not finish SRT's race track testing demands, not even close...and we really wanted it to, but it kept breaking down...), failing basic SRT requirements.

We are sorry to share this with you (that the ultimate "American Sports Car" is not the same as 'America's Supercar')...we just ask that the factory engineers (from Brand 'FN', mind you) who came to personally pick up our broken throttle body at Gingerman in 2011, if you are among the other American sports car loving fan boy 'enthusiasts' trolling our small club web site....These are mere facts, nothing more. SRT Rocks for America, more than you may realize.

So please stop and consider what we are telling you: Viper alone has survived these severe tests.

And consider yourself liberated; if you don't need a car to be able to race 24 hours on our tough road race track without failing, then go ahead: you have many more options to consider! Lucky you! Go ahead and buy that 'other' American FN brand! Or, go crazy, and buy a lightweight Lotus!!.....but, if you are a purist who demands that your car performs under extreme road racing use, then you are an SRT driver.

As an aside, I completely love British nameplates associated with "lightweight" design. Except that...every time I study their design details, I am very unconvinced that these cars could pass any SRT mandated test! - which means that the lightweight "British beauty's" that I covet are not eligible to become SRTs! As much as I love them, they can never be an SRT.

So, like all of us, you have to make a decision: is SRT required??... or just 'nice to have'? For the rest of the fan boys out there, you also need to decide: do you really like a failing brand FN, or GTR, or would you like to buy SRT products tested to a higher standard?

Sounds like you have to ask yourself, SRT fans: do you want a car that works on the race track, or looks pretty - you can decide for yourselves - and please do. It's a really easy decision, and we'll forgive you if you chose Brand FN, or Brand Germany.

But Street and Racing Technology has decided what we stand for, and we're sticking to it. Thanks for listening.

How I drive usually varies with my mood and traffic. I drive mine to work and back every day and leave fairly early (6:00), so I usually take it a little easier on the way to work and while the engine is warming up by not downshifting. On the way home I'll typically take it through the gears on the way to a stop, but mainly just because I like the exhaust pop on decel and because I like the practice of rev matching. Either way I usually keep it in gear until I'm pretty close to a stop. I might kick down from 6th to 4th or maybe even all the way to 3rd on the way to a stop, but I rarely clutch and coast/brake all the way down from speed. You can lug the engine down pretty far in gear without it dying. I've accidentally skipped from 2nd to 6th when I was trying for 4th and it doesn't seem to care much, just sounds different.