Is this true or not about the new viper?

AZTVR said:

I can't imagine how you can't imagine that upscale car buyers would buy the Gen V Viper without test driving it. There is post after post on this forum from "supposedly" upscale car buyers that have purchased the Gen V Viper without test driving it. Maybe they do not fit your definition? I must not understand who you are defining as an upscale car buyer. Perhaps a person that has no specific interest in a Viper, but, just wants a car to look good in and show off at the country club? If so, why would they care how it drives? If you are talking about serious car enthusiasts, you are talking about the type of people that have been posting here that they bought it.

Just busting your chops a little in a light hearted way. I bought my Gen 2 without driving one first. I feel that I am a ********* enthusiast. I did not care if it fit like a glove. I bought it because I like experiencing speed and performance in different ways. I understand that there are guys who only want to "be with" one specific type of woman. There are others that want to "experience" different types of performance, as long as it is not a forever deal and doesn't result in a permanent loss in assets.

Some dealers probably think that there are enough buyers like me, to justify their strategy. Their business plan makes perfect sense to me. They are NOT looking for Viper buyers who need a test drive. So be it. So what.

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Most of my friends are track buddies who spend an unhealthy amount of time on the track, and drive there`s very little on the street other than to get to and from events. I averaged about 20 days per year on the track for years, driving from the Toronto area as far as 17 hours to Road Atlanta and other iconic tracks. That`s how I enjoyed performance cars, and them fitting me and my carry-ons like a glove was more of a necessity than a desire. 9-12 hours straight driving tests a seat and seating position`s comfort pretty effectively. Most Viper owners don`t track their cars, or to any real degree, and they enjoy their performance cars in very different ways. I haven`t done these road trips more recently, as my schedule hasn`t allowed for them, however I picked up my last one Oct `11 at the dealer on a Thurday at noon and had it on a more local track 6 hours away the next morning, and to more local track a few times since. I did give the dealer a refundable deposit before test driving it, as did the buddy who ordered one of the first GT-R`s, and the two that have fully refundable deposits on new NSX`s that are subject to test drive. I think a dealer asking for a deposit is quite reasonable as I know it`s ultimately designed to protect the car that myself, or someone like me, will be buying. If a customer isn`t willing to put down a deposit to test drive the car then let the dealer sales person do the driving until the consumer has done his research and is comfortable to make a purchase on that basis. A buyer shouldn`t expect to be just handed the keys, even if some dealers allow or encourage it.

As far as the few 2013`s that early adopter forum members have bought sight unseen to be one of the first to get these cars, I`m relieved to read the few positive feedback stories as they`ve received their cars, but how many other high-end high performance buyers are going to buy up the rest of the 2013 production without any opportunity to drive the car they are standing there looking at with check in hand is beyond my ability to comprehend. But I will make one prediction...the dealers that will allow a test drive to qualified buyer with a refundable deposit will be the ones that sell all the Vipers they can get.

I've had four Vipers and never test drove any of them before purchase.
I knew I wanted the car, knew everything I needed to know before I bought it and also knew a mile test drive down a busy highway isn't going to tell me a thing I didn't already know.

Nine Ball said:

The cheapest Porsche on the lot is what, $65K? Customers visiting a Porsche dealership likely have a higher income range than the typical Dodge dealership walk-on. Porsche doesn't have the Avenger, Ram pickup, Caravan, and Dart customers coming in, hoping for a free trial of a Viper that they likely can't afford. So, Porsche in itself sort of pre-screens the customers that arrive on the lot, shopping for an expensive car in the first place. Also, those Porsche dealerships do not have concerns with allotment of vehicles, since the expensive ones are all they carry, and the only thing they carry. They likely have a few of each in stock, other than the ultra high-end models. 911's are pretty common. If they are going to throw me the keys, I'll drive them. If I wanted one, however, I'd be okay buying one without driving it. These are passion purchases, not necessities. There aren't 3 other companies that build a similar 911, nor are there any other Vipers. If you want one, you want one. If you find you dislike it later on, simply sell it.

Am I right?

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NO! My 4x4 Ram mega cab diesel with all the toys msrp for 66k Now add some other srt vehicles like the jeep over 60k and challenger/300 over 50k so your theory is a bit off! I think it's the culture of these dealers. I mention to Ralph over 2 years ago that I would be willing to put my money were my mouth is and have them let me open an SRT only ie...fiat type format dealership. he told me management would prefer not to step on the dealerships network toes! Well he didn't say it quite like this, but I got the message! Lets face it 99% of the people that want an Srt trim vehicle know more than the people selling the car! Nothing worst than having a salesperson taking in clinches and telling me things like "now this baby is something and is really fast and this is an SRT...do you know what it stands for ?" Give me a break! So get used to it, I don't see this changing anytime soon!

ViperJon said:

I've had four Vipers and never test drove any of them before purchase.
I knew I wanted the car, knew everything I needed to know before I bought it and also knew a mile test drive down a busy highway isn't going to tell me a thing I didn't already know.

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Selling previous/current owners is the easy part.

I had a dealer call me. They told me they had a new Viper in stock that I may be interested in. They brought the car over. One of the new salesmen was going to ride along. I didn't realize it until later that it was a joke on the salesman. I guess I had a reputation for giving pretty wild test rides.

I bought my ACR without a test drive and had only been in a Viper once and that was just to check out in the insider while I was waiting on mine to be built and delivered.

Going back through the new cars I have owned I test drove some and didn't others. For the new Z06's I knew I wanted each one. The dealer insisted I test drive the ZR1; but, I didn't really need to.

As far as dealers not wanting to let someone drive a $100k+ car? I can understand that; however, when we bought my wife's SL550 MB last year we went for a test drive and that car was $111k.

Google "exotics wrecked during test drives."

kennyhemi said:

NO! My 4x4 Ram mega cab diesel with all the toys msrp for 66k Now add some other srt vehicles like the jeep over 60k and challenger/300 over 50k so your theory is a bit off! I think it's the culture of these dealers. I mention to Ralph over 2 years ago that I would be willing to put my money were my mouth is and have them let me open an SRT only ie...fiat type format dealership. he told me management would prefer not to step on the dealerships network toes! Well he didn't say it quite like this, but I got the message! Lets face it 99% of the people that want an Srt trim vehicle know more than the people selling the car! Nothing worst than having a salesperson taking in clinches and telling me things like "now this baby is something and is really fast and this is an SRT...do you know what it stands for ?" Give me a break! So get used to it, I don't see this changing anytime soon!

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You did not read my response correctly. I know Dodge has some other expensive cars. But, they also have several at the $19k range. Exotic brands do not. The cheapest Porsche on the lot is about $65k. You have to base the average buyers walking in on the spectrum of car pricing, found on the lot.

I would also like to see an SRT dealership, however. Just no more SRT4 or SRT6, please.

I think there are variations. When I ordered my Gen V, I hadn't sat or ever driven a Viper. I hadn't seen a Gen V in person. I wanted it badly and it didn't really matter. But, I know I am a small minority of owners.

When I was shopping for other brands after canceling, the experiences were more passé. As I said, Porsche was fantastic. Chevy wanted me to prequalify to test drive a 09 Z06. Nissan said they don't even let people in the GT-R (which they did) and no test drives. Audi was the same about the RS5, no test drives. BMW let me swing around the M5, M3 without much of an issue.

I fully understand why they don't want every tom, dick, and harry behind the wheel. But, if someone doesn't have the "Viper Passion" in them, it is a harder sell. If you aren't letting test drives happen, you best be willing to let the car go at invoice!

Granted, there are different variations of buyers. Individuals who have a dozen fun cars already, where if they don't totally like the Viper they can sell it and eat $15,000 in losses without blinking an eye. Then you have people who have done alright, but a $125,000 toy is still something they should budget for, buying a toy that they find out they don't like isn't going to make anyone happy. IMO those are the majority of buyers that will look at the Gen V, which is why the "No test drives" is going to hurt SRT sales. If anything, SRT should have kept the 50 red demos for itself and done demo days around the country. Great way to qualify leads (for anyone in sales it is important) and get people using them. But, it is sad, because it just means they can't trust their dealer network. But, Tesla seemed to pull it off.

ViperSmith said:

I think there are variations. When I ordered my Gen V, I hadn't sat or ever driven a Viper. I hadn't seen a Gen V in person. I wanted it badly and it didn't really matter. But, I know I am a small minority of owners.

When I was shopping for other brands after canceling, the experiences were more passé. As I said, Porsche was fantastic. Chevy wanted me to prequalify to test drive a 09 Z06. Nissan said they don't even let people in the GT-R (which they did) and no test drives. Audi was the same about the RS5, no test drives. BMW let me swing around the M5, M3 without much of an issue.

I fully understand why they don't want every tom, dick, and harry behind the wheel. But, if someone doesn't have the "Viper Passion" in them, it is a harder sell. If you aren't letting test drives happen, you best be willing to let the car go at invoice!

Granted, there are different variations of buyers. Individuals who have a dozen fun cars already, where if they don't totally like the Viper they can sell it and eat $15,000 in losses without blinking an eye. Then you have people who have done alright, but a $125,000 toy is still something they should budget for, buying a toy that they find out they don't like isn't going to make anyone happy. IMO those are the majority of buyers that will look at the Gen V, which is why the "No test drives" is going to hurt SRT sales. If anything, SRT should have kept the 50 red demos for itself and done demo days around the country. Great way to qualify leads (for anyone in sales it is important) and get people using them. But, it is sad, because it just means they can't trust their dealer network. But, Tesla seemed to pull it off.

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This is key. When I am finally ready to buy the car when I go into the dealership if they don't let me test drive the car still I'm literally going to say 1k above invoice or I'm out. Because if they order it and then I drive it and I don't like it I'm going to U-Turn back into the dealership and give it back. I'm not in the group than can throw away 15k without flinching. At least not yet.

I think there is two types of Viper buyers. Those that want it regardless of how it drives, and those who are willing to walk away if it is not exactly as they would want.

For me, I am one of the diehards. I would buy a gen 5 regardless of having driven a couple of them already. Do I like the way they drive? Yes. But much like my gen 2, I would have bought it regardless of how it felt as I like the car. (Side note: I once asked a certain 6'9" VCA member from Ohio how he fits into his gen two and manages to drive it. His response was how bad do you want to drive the car because you like it? Fair enough!!)

The second type of buyer, I do understand where you are coming from as well. Issue is, most dealers will get 1-2 cars as demand is so backed up. And most people buying a Viper do not want more than a mile or two on the car when they buy it. Heck, I know a guy that was pissed the Viper he purchased had 10 miles on it and that was from the CAAP Assy Plant QC drive!! It wasn’t even the dealer!!

I understand both sides and I don’t know what the answer is. The dealers don't want to add mileage, yet some buyers won’t buy if there is no test drive. Yet there is many people who just want the opportunity to test drive a Viper with no real intent on buying either. What's the correct answer here? I guess if the dealer is large enough and has the ability to buy an extra car as a "demo" unit (assuming his allotment of Vipers is large enough he can) then that would be a win win.


In the end, with Viper now pulling buyers from a different market (bit more luxury than before), a new type of buyer that actually cares how it feels and may walk away if it rides too harsh, does not feel right etc. That being the case, a new way of dealing with potential buyers will need to be adpoted. I know the demo cars from SRT is a good plan, but I can't see all SRT dealers getting one.

Mopar Boy said:

I think there is two types of Viper buyers. Those that want it regardless of how it drives, and those who are willing to walk away if it is not exactly as they would want.

For me, I am one of the diehards. I would buy a gen 5 regardless of having driven a couple of them already. Do I like the way they drive? Yes. But much like my gen 2, I would have bought it regardless of how it felt as I like the car. (Side note: I once asked a certain 6'9" VCA member from Ohio how he fits into his gen two and manages to drive it. His response was how bad do you want to drive the car because you like it? Fair enough!!)

The second type of buyer, I do understand where you are coming from as well. Issue is, most dealers will get 1-2 cars as demand is so backed up. And most people buying a Viper do not want more than a mile or two on the car when they buy it. Heck, I know a guy that was pissed the Viper he purchased had 10 miles on it and that was from the CAAP Assy Plant QC drive!! It wasn’t even the dealer!!

I understand both sides and I don’t know what the answer is. The dealers don't want to add mileage, yet some buyers won’t buy if there is no test drive. Yet there is many people who just want the opportunity to test drive a Viper with no real intent on buying either. What's the correct answer here? I guess if the dealer is large enough and has the ability to buy an extra car as a "demo" unit (assuming his allotment of Vipers is large enough he can) then that would be a win win.


In the end, with Viper now pulling buyers from a different market (bit more luxury than before), a new type of buyer that actually cares how it feels and may walk away if it rides too harsh, does not feel right etc. That being the case, a new way of dealing with potential buyers will need to be adpoted. I know the demo cas from SRT is a good plan, but I can't see all SRT dealers getting one.

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I agree with this. I am that new type of buyer. I like the viper because of how it looks, what it offers, and hopefully how it feels when driving (when I get a chance). Though even at the big viper dealer which I think Crisswell they said is the largest in the mid atlantic (they are getting 7-8), they wouldn't even let me drive it in a circle around the dealership forget about a public road lol.

Mopar Boy said:

I think there is two types of Viper buyers. Those that want it regardless of how it drives, and those who are willing to walk away if it is not exactly as they would want.

For me, I am one of the diehards. I would buy a gen 5 regardless of having driven a couple of them already. Do I like the way they drive? Yes. But much like my gen 2, I would have bought it regardless of how it felt as I like the car. (Side note: I once asked a certain 6'9" VCA member from Ohio how he fits into his gen two and manages to drive it. His response was how bad do you want to drive the car because you like it? Fair enough!!)

The second type of buyer, I do understand where you are coming from as well. Issue is, most dealers will get 1-2 cars as demand is so backed up. And most people buying a Viper do not want more than a mile or two on the car when they buy it. Heck, I know a guy that was pissed the Viper he purchased had 10 miles on it and that was from the CAAP Assy Plant QC drive!! It wasn’t even the dealer!!

I understand both sides and I don’t know what the answer is. The dealers don't want to add mileage, yet some buyers won’t buy if there is no test drive. Yet there is many people who just want the opportunity to test drive a Viper with no real intent on buying either. What's the correct answer here? I guess if the dealer is large enough and has the ability to buy an extra car as a "demo" unit (assuming his allotment of Vipers is large enough he can) then that would be a win win.


In the end, with Viper now pulling buyers from a different market (bit more luxury than before), a new type of buyer that actually cares how it feels and may walk away if it rides too harsh, does not feel right etc. That being the case, a new way of dealing with potential buyers will need to be adpoted. I know the demo cars from SRT is a good plan, but I can't see all SRT dealers getting one.

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Simply not true. Plenty of cars sitting on lots for MSRP and under now.

Cars aren't flying off lots, there isn't a huge demand to command MSRP+

MoparMap said:

There is something to be said about driving one before you buy it though. I bought my 04 used but realized a plane ticket home if it didn't look good was cheaper than buying a car to drive home. In the long run I paid maybe another $500 between and inspection and plane tickets (bought one for my brother to help drive it back). I'd think the cars might be spead out enough that you could maybe just drive to one (though it might be a bit of a trip).

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Agreed. I was working with a local dealer with a buddy who is about to buy something, but I'm trying to sway him to a Viper, and the local dealer hasn't been able move one of their 5 cars at MSRP. They never even had an addendum. He is willing to move off MSRP now. The sales guy and dealership GM were being upfront and open about their frustration trying to sell the cars. I imagine they aren't the only ones. I bet $10k off sticker will be a standard very soon the way this is going.

ViperSmith said:

Simply not true. Plenty of cars sitting on lots for MSRP and under now.

Cars aren't flying off lots, there isn't a huge demand to command MSRP+

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I am sitting back and waiting. Like Mopar Boy, I am a diehard. Not going to pay above sticker and hopefully pay less. Like the LE but want to look at future options and maybe the new ACR.

SRTviper said:

This is key. When I am finally ready to buy the car when I go into the dealership if they don't let me test drive the car still I'm literally going to say 1k above invoice or I'm out. Because if they order it and then I drive it and I don't like it I'm going to U-Turn back into the dealership and give it back. I'm not in the group than can throw away 15k without flinching. At least not yet.

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I didn't test drive the viper or see it in person before putting a deposit to get mine. As a dealer, I would see little or no incentive to sell it to you for under MSRP. The viper is a low volume car and most dealers are not going to bend over backwards to get it out the door. They make their bread and butter selling the $20-$30K cars and trucks and probably get a steady flow of dreamy tire-kickers wanting a test drive in a car they can't afford or have no intention of buying.

If you're balking at $15K then you might want to rethink buying a $100K plus vehicle. There are nice, fast cars for less than half of that. Don't forget that you gotta pay a $2,600 gas guzzler tax, sales tax and a $2,000 destination charge (plus tags). The viper is a purely optional and unnecessary vehicle. Not an investment. As you put it, all money you spend on the viper is going to be "thrown away".

PeerBlock said:

I didn't test drive the viper or see it in person before putting a deposit to get mine. As a dealer, I would see little or no incentive to sell it to you for under MSRP. The viper is a low volume car and most dealers are not going to bend over backwards to get it out the door. They make their bread and butter selling the $20-$30K cars and trucks and probably get a steady flow of dreamy tire-kickers wanting a test drive in a car they can't afford or have no intention of buying.

If you're balking at $15K then you might want to rethink buying a $100K plus vehicle. There are nice, fast cars for less than half of that. Don't forget that you gotta pay a $2,600 gas guzzler tax, sales tax and a $2,000 destination charge (plus tags). The viper is a purely optional and unnecessary vehicle. Not an investment. As you put it, all money you spend on the viper is going to be "thrown away".

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Well that last part isn't quite true. My money on the viper isn't being thrown away since the viper brings me a level of happiness that I find to be worth 100+k. But hey if the dealerships won't let me test drive they can keep on sitting on the cheaper ones they have and if they don't sell to me below MSRP instead of selling a 146k MSRP vehicle they will have to attempt to sell a 130k one. I only want like 5% off really at a minimum.

Nine Ball said:

You did not read my response correctly. I know Dodge has some other expensive cars. But, they also have several at the $19k range. Exotic brands do not. The cheapest Porsche on the lot is about $65k. You have to base the average buyers walking in on the spectrum of car pricing, found on the lot.

I would also like to see an SRT dealership, however. Just no more SRT4 or SRT6, please.

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Nine ball, text has a way of being taken in the state of mind your in! I get it! But still think an SRT specialty dealer would work. I think even if Chrysler awards one, they won't let you cherry pick between SRT vehicles. At this point I would be happy to have a SRT format dealer at the expense of SRT 4 or 6 cars. An SRT dealer "only" would be incredible as you would hire only passionate people form sales to parts personnel, train people right and sell the complete experience from purchase to buying a windshield wiper blade! Nothing new here like you said. Just like any high end dealer would. In the meantime unless you live near Woodhouse or Tomball, it's bring on the clowns!

Obviously different buyer profiles, and naturally what works for one type may not work for another, regardless of how passionate or satisfied somebody else was with that buying style. I know that a lot of Vette owners buy the new model when it comes out, and often times keeps the old ones and they end up with a collection before long. Closest I got to that was when I bought a newer Jaguar XK convertible, but the version I bought before that was decades earlier! Okay, so I missed a few revisions but hey, everything they made in between sucked IMO! Come to think of it that '70 XKE was probably the worst built car I ever owned...but one of my favorites, and maybe because it had an extroverted personality like the Viper!

Lots of good ideas on how SRT and dealers should run their businesses, but I wouldn't lose too much sleep trying to figure it all out as I don't think they're going to pay close attention to our views anyways, not even the ones we think are sensible! Those who need to see, sit and drive one will find one dealer or another, and maybe not until or unless a particular dealer feel the need to allow that in order to make a sale. I don't expect to have a problem convincing one of the few local dealers I'm ready to write the check conditional on a test drive, if I haven't had that opportunity already, and particularly once the initial launch buzz subsides.

SRTviper said:

Well that last part isn't quite true. My money on the viper isn't being thrown away since the viper brings me a level of happiness that I find to be worth 100+k. But hey if the dealerships won't let me test drive they can keep on sitting on the cheaper ones they have and if they don't sell to me below MSRP instead of selling a 146k MSRP vehicle they will have to attempt to sell a 130k one. I only want like 5% off really at a minimum.

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You might find a dealer willing to work with you if you're in an area where sports cars are not particularly popular among the locals. Other than that you could just wait and see if dealers get more motivated to sell their vipers.

Do you have a car or truck to trade in? If you do, that can give you and the dealer some room to negotiate on price based on what they offer for the trade, since the trade is applied the same as a discount on the purchase price prior to sales tax calculation. You may be be more likely to get a dealer to give you more for a trade than they are to discount the viper directly.

Or just find someone that has one and drive theirs. I just drove another member's 13 SRT for about a 100 miles. Sent my impressions to SRT. I liked most of it but not all. Some things in person look cheap - like the plastic hood vents and the grille. Interior is awesome.

One other thing I don't get though is this apparent fascination with new cars that have less than 10 miles on them. I personally never gave a crap about the mileage. What are they going to do put it in the garage in a capsule? The first 100 mile trip they take will erase any memories of the 4 miles the car had when new. Heck I bought a new $160K Aston Martin with 175 miles on it. Put 16,000 miles on it. Afterall the warranty starts at the mileage the car has on it when it is put into service.

By the way, the Aston dealer tossed me the keys and even asked if I wanted to take it over night. This to a guy that drove up in a Camaro.

I've had 12 vipers and never test drove a single one of them, bought many sight unseen.

But, that said, that was in the days of Dodge, Err Chrysler, Errrr SRT, targeting the quasi rich, and the dealerships that cater to those fellas give test drives, they let you take a car for the weekend, Porsche, Merc, ASton, Jaguar, all but the Ferrari dealerships allow you to thrash, Err, I mean test drive their cars....

PeerBlock said:

You might find a dealer willing to work with you if you're in an area where sports cars are not particularly popular among the locals. Other than that you could just wait and see if dealers get more motivated to sell their vipers.

Do you have a car or truck to trade in? If you do, that can give you and the dealer some room to negotiate on price based on what they offer for the trade, since the trade is applied the same as a discount on the purchase price prior to sales tax calculation. You may be be more likely to get a dealer to give you more for a trade than they are to discount the viper directly.

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Yea I'm probably going to trade my shelby in on it.

I bought one of my Vipers site unseen, in fact I wired him the money and didn't pick it up for a couple of weeks. I have test driven the Gen V at VOI and I won't be getting one. I think for that kind of money I will be jumping into a Murci, Ford GT, and an F430.

BigBadViper said:

I bought one of my Vipers site unseen, in fact I wired him the money and didn't pick it up for a couple of weeks. I have test driven the Gen V at VOI and I won't be getting one. I think for that kind of money I will be jumping into a Murci, Ford GT, and an F430.

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Lol none of those 3 cars are even CLOSE to 120-130k.

BigBadViper said:

I think for that kind of money I will be jumping into a Murci, Ford GT, and an F430.

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Maybe for the price of a Viper, you could get into a Challenger, a Camaro and a Mustang. I doubt that you could buy the 3 that you mention.

It's funny to read these varying experiences. When I was a mid 20s and bought my first viper, not a dealer in the world would let me test drive one. So I flew down to Hennessey, he gave me a test RIDE, in a 96 GTS, and I was hooked, ordered the thing the next day. Gen 3s come out, they don't exist, so ordered one, no test drive, same with the gen 4. Now we get to the gen 5s, and the only REAL drive I've had is in a fellow-club members car. I'm sure If I asked a dealership they'd let me (now), since there are 50 cars out there. But I'm certain it would be difficult. However, this Saturday, I have an hour long test drive scheduled with McLaren. They are practically begging me to take this out, since they are convinced I'll choose that over the G5... Funny world.

SRTviper said:

Lol none of those 3 cars are even CLOSE to 120-130k.

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Actually bud, these 3 cars are pretty much in line with what a G5 costs. Keep in mind these are going to be pre-owned, You can even get a 640 at the same price if you buy right. He also did not mention gallardo, which is a shoe-in, nor a DBS/v12 vantage. Viper moved up into a crowded space, especially if you throw in the cost of a custom/stryker paint job. Shop around. However, NONE of these will perform as well as the G5, so there are trade offs with everything. Also not mentioned is a mclaren, which I am considering, for only 40k more, you could get a car that is very rare. I just need to see how much a go-kart it is...

Nsane1 said:

Actually bud, these 3 cars are pretty much in line with what a G5 costs. Keep in mind these are going to be pre-owned, You can even get a 640 at the same price if you buy right. He also did not mention gallardo, which is a shoe-in, nor a DBS/v12 vantage. Viper moved up into a crowded space, especially if you throw in the cost of a custom/stryker paint job. Shop around. However, NONE of these will perform as well as the G5, so there are trade offs with everything. Also not mentioned is a mclaren, which I am considering, for only 40k more, you could get a car that is very rare. I just need to see how much a go-kart it is...

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Hmmmm. Well 40k over isn't quite the same range now is it? Because at that point you might as well go another 20k and get a 458 right? It never ends at that rate. The options I want is 145k MSRP. Please post these cars selling on cars.com between 130-155k with less than 10k miles on them and I'll consider what you said correct. It is meaningless if I can get a 2002 Ferrari with 50k miles for the same price as the brand new viper.

Comparing used car prices with new car MSRP is kinda silly. Not apples vs apples. The Gen 5 at it's current price is a hell of a deal compared to just about.... everything.

Nine Ball said:

Comparing used car prices with new car MSRP is kinda silly. Not apples vs apples. The Gen 5 at it's current price is a hell of a deal compared to just about.... everything.

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Nine....I have to disagree.

If I have 150K to spend I will certainly look at what I have available to buy. Doesnt mean it has to be new. A low mileage, well cared for car, in the same price range is certainly a consideration.

If that also means that I may be getting 'more car' since the used one has depreciated, then this may be even better.

This is not an argument as to what car is in fact better, just stating that its the money that is the constant here....not whether or not the car is used or new.

Matt