GT3-R

chorps · Jun 25, 2013

SnakeBitten said:
I agree. Even if they don't use the GTS-R body for the ACR they could just add 1.5-2 inches to the front/rear body work respectively, adjust the offset of the wheels to compensate for the added width and bam instant GTSR-esque looks while still coming in under SRT seemingly mythical 80" taboo width.

BTW the Aventador with the mirrors included is 89" wide . Without mirrors included the Aventador 79" wide which is around where the Viper would be if SRT widened it 1.5 and 2" front/back bodywork respectively for the upcoming ACR. The Murcielago was 81" wide without mirrors so not sure of this regulation Ralph speaks of.

Maybe it's some kind of weird production line limitation at Conner/Prefix?

SnakeBitten · Jun 25, 2013

chorps said:
Maybe it's some kind of weird production line limitation at Conner/Prefix?

Yeah could be something logistical or corporate as opposed to federal? I'm sure many of us would love to know the reason for the limitation at SRT while other mfgs don't seem to suffer from this limitation.

MoparMap · Jun 25, 2013

That sounds pretty reasonable. Shipping limitations can be a pretty good driver for design (I run into this at my job). Granted Lambo's still seem to get shipped around the country, but maybe SRT does some in-house stuff that they are trying to keep costs low with.

Fatboy 18 · Jun 25, 2013

We have ways of bending the rules a bit here in the UK, Somehow or other we would find a way of getting that GT3 Body width on the road

BigDawg · Jun 25, 2013

I think ACR, if extreme and wider, will come in around $160-175k. Simply because the TA edition bridged the gap for people looking to road course on a "budget". Offer a wing down the line and your good to go. Save the ACR for the big leagues. The biggest mistake SRT ever made was showing the two cars side by side. GTS looks tall and narrow after staring at the GT3-R/GTS-R proportions.

ACRucrazy · Jun 25, 2013

How could you justify 60-75 grand more over the base SRT for the ACR?

That would just be silly. The TA is "estimated" to come in at 115 or 120 or whatever, mostly because of the CF beauty pieces. Meaner does not automatically = more expensive.

Base SRT for 100k, how can we add another 75k to that for an ACR? The Gen IV ACR package was 13-15k or so. I do not see a jump of 60k on top of that necessary.

You want to talk about Vipers sitting on lots, you can do so with the introduction of a $175k street Viper. Even if you add lighter seats, different brakes, different hood/bumper, ported heads or whatever. Sure there may be more cost involved in those parts, but there is also reduction in not using the OEM parts that you are replacing.

I would love to see a wide body style ACR however I would hate to see an ACR that alienates many of the Viper buyers with price. Just because some can afford it doesn't mean it has to cost that much.

mnc2886 · Jun 25, 2013

ACRucrazy said:
How could you justify 60-75 grand more over the base SRT for the ACR?

That would just be silly. The TA is "estimated" to come in at 115 or 120 or whatever, mostly because of the CF beauty pieces. Meaner does not automatically = more expensive.

Base SRT for 100k, how can we add another 75k to that for an ACR? The Gen IV ACR package was 13-15k or so. I do not see a jump of 60k on top of that necessary.

You want to talk about Vipers sitting on lots, you can do so with the introduction of a $175k street Viper. Even if you add lighter seats, different brakes, different hood/bumper, ported heads or whatever. Sure there may be more cost involved in those parts, but there is also reduction in not using the OEM parts that you are replacing.

I would love to see a wide body style ACR however I would hate to see an ACR that alienates many of the Viper buyers with price. Just because some can afford it doesn't mean it has to cost that much.

We had the same comments when someone had a "birdie" that said the new Viper would be around $137k. No one believed it, and even the guys at Woodhouse laughed at the notion. Now look. The average GTS is about that price. I have a bad feeling about the ACR's pricing. It will be ridiculous for sure. Then there will be people coming out of the woodworks justifying the price once it happens. There will be comments about how it surpasses the MP4's performance for $75k less!! Wow, what a bargain!! The Viper is a niche car and SRT would benefit to sticking to that niche. Think about it. We keep seeing the posts here, one of my closest friends in the market for a car in the $140k range has the same comments. People keep comparing the Viper to cars that have 100 less horsepower and sometimes even less than that. Comparable interior quality. Comparable materials (carbon fiber, etc..). My friend drove the Gen V and loved it. He had a blast. He admitted that the Viper was never on his radar. He has only been looking at R8's, Porsche's, used Ferrari's, Aston Martin's, etc. After he drove then Gen V, the only thing he said was that at $140k, so many options open up. It isn't all about performance. Sometimes it is just the name, prestige, and experience of ownership that people favor. In fact it seems most people favor it or otherwise the Viper would have a 12 month waiting list (well I guess it does it you ordered one -- sorry, cheap joke). A ACR that costs over what the GTS isn't selling at now will not sell either. There will be a few niche owners that will pony up. It will be undeniable that it has great value. However, it just won't work.

Anyways, I'll say it again, can we have a teaser at least SRT????

PittsburghRT · Jun 25, 2013

That is beautiful!

mnc2886 · Jun 25, 2013

I just did a bit of research on the so called "too wide" myth. It is just that, a myth. Now, the rules appear to be tricky. First, the current Gen V street car is 76.4" wide. The GT3-R is 80.7 inches wide. The rules I have found in all the states that popped up on my search state that 96" is the legal maximum and 102" for commercial vehicles. However, as with any DOT rules, there are subsequent rules that follow. Where turn signals, reflectors, and other lights are placed have different rules once you are over 80". This may be what SRT is referring to. There are also rules stating how far headlights, turn signals, and brake lights must be visible. Those numbers have different rules as well once you creep over 80". However, Lamborghini seems to have found a way to comply, and if SRT can't, then just make the ACR right at 80" wide. Give those fenders that bit of extra flare and it will transform the car dramatically. Look at the difference between a Z06 and regular Corvette. I will also bet the GT3R would still have that amazing appearance if it is just .7" skinnier. C'mon SRT!!!

chorps · Jun 25, 2013

If the ACR targeted beating the LaFerrari and McLaren P1 (around the track), let alone beating the C7 ZR1, how much would people pay?

A new GTS might already be a stretch for me, let alone the ACR, so all of this is pretty much academic for me (until used ones pop up).

Remember this car? Would anyone pay the rumoured 250k+ for it?

You must be registered for see images attach

VIPER BAZ UK · Jun 26, 2013

Managed to get in on the reveal of the GT3-R ,,...... WOW what a car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Neil - UK said:
Baz sent me this pic from Le Mans

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

Fatboy 18 · Jun 26, 2013

VIPER BAZ UK said:
Managed to get in on the reveal of the GT3-R ,,...... WOW what a car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Think you managed to get in everywhere by the sound of it! :rolaugh:

VIPER BAZ UK · Jun 26, 2013

LOL!!!!!!!! Maybe....

must say a HUGE HUGE thanks to team SRT Dan Reid and Ralph Giles for a FANTASTIC WEEK!!!!!!!!

BigDawg · Jun 26, 2013

ACRucrazy said:
How could you justify 60-75 grand more over the base SRT for the ACR?

That would just be silly. The TA is "estimated" to come in at 115 or 120 or whatever, mostly because of the CF beauty pieces. Meaner does not automatically = more expensive.

Base SRT for 100k, how can we add another 75k to that for an ACR? The Gen IV ACR package was 13-15k or so. I do not see a jump of 60k on top of that necessary.

You want to talk about Vipers sitting on lots, you can do so with the introduction of a $175k street Viper. Even if you add lighter seats, different brakes, different hood/bumper, ported heads or whatever. Sure there may be more cost involved in those parts, but there is also reduction in not using the OEM parts that you are replacing.

I would love to see a wide body style ACR however I would hate to see an ACR that alienates many of the Viper buyers with price. Just because some can afford it doesn't mean it has to cost that much.

I completely understand what you are saying. This is not what I want to see nor do I necessarily think it's a good idea. This is a simple prediction based on what has already transpired. If there wasn't a TA model I'd say different. But if the ACR truly is going to be "extreme" as Ralph has hinted, and there is NOT wide body work then a whole lot of things must happen to make it so-called extreme. I think they are planning a scuderia type interior, exposed carbon fiber standard equipment, carbon ceramic brakes, possibly new transmission, HP bump, etc. All of which will increase the price very quickly. Then spread the development cost over an extremely limited amount of cars and you are talking serious coin. Some of those things could later be available on the regular Vipers so that could help spread some of the cost around (transmission, brakes, HP). In my strong opinion though, if SRT comes out with an expensive ACR and it does not have wider body work they will have failed miserably.

mnc2886 said:
We had the same comments when someone had a "birdie" that said the new Viper would be around $137k. No one believed it, and even the guys at Woodhouse laughed at the notion. Now look. The average GTS is about that price. I have a bad feeling about the ACR's pricing. It will be ridiculous for sure. Then there will be people coming out of the woodworks justifying the price once it happens. There will be comments about how it surpasses the MP4's performance for $75k less!! Wow, what a bargain!! The Viper is a niche car and SRT would benefit to sticking to that niche. Think about it. We keep seeing the posts here, one of my closest friends in the market for a car in the $140k range has the same comments. People keep comparing the Viper to cars that have 100 less horsepower and sometimes even less than that. Comparable interior quality. Comparable materials (carbon fiber, etc..). My friend drove the Gen V and loved it. He had a blast. He admitted that the Viper was never on his radar. He has only been looking at R8's, Porsche's, used Ferrari's, Aston Martin's, etc. After he drove then Gen V, the only thing he said was that at $140k, so many options open up. It isn't all about performance. Sometimes it is just the name, prestige, and experience of ownership that people favor. In fact it seems most people favor it or otherwise the Viper would have a 12 month waiting list (well I guess it does it you ordered one -- sorry, cheap joke). A ACR that costs over what the GTS isn't selling at now will not sell either. There will be a few niche owners that will pony up. It will be undeniable that it has great value. However, it just won't work.

Anyways, I'll say it again, can we have a teaser at least SRT????

What I've been saying all along.

BigDawg · Jun 26, 2013

mnc2886 said:
I just did a bit of research on the so called "too wide" myth. It is just that, a myth. Now, the rules appear to be tricky. First, the current Gen V street car is 76.4" wide. The GT3-R is 80.7 inches wide. The rules I have found in all the states that popped up on my search state that 96" is the legal maximum and 102" for commercial vehicles. However, as with any DOT rules, there are subsequent rules that follow. Where turn signals, reflectors, and other lights are placed have different rules once you are over 80". This may be what SRT is referring to. There are also rules stating how far headlights, turn signals, and brake lights must be visible. Those numbers have different rules as well once you creep over 80". However, Lamborghini seems to have found a way to comply, and if SRT can't, then just make the ACR right at 80" wide. Give those fenders that bit of extra flare and it will transform the car dramatically. Look at the difference between a Z06 and regular Corvette. I will also bet the GT3R would still have that amazing appearance if it is just .7" skinnier. C'mon SRT!!!

I'm pretty sure the GTS-R is 82" wide. At least I read that in a couple of places..and aren't the GTS-R and GT3-R the same width? Also, if you look at the front of the GT3-R the street car doesn't have to be that wide to look nasty. They back is where it really needs it. You can shave a couple of inches off the front and still have it look very nasty. The back needs to be the same if not very close to the width of the race car. That's what gives it a supercar look (although it is not a "supercar"). Very low and very wide.

Policy Limits · Jun 26, 2013

selfishly fine with my current 76.4" width on the snake....it fits on my lift in the air without garage door mods that way. Still a wider car than my Lambo was!

mnc2886 · Jun 26, 2013

BigDawg said:
I'm pretty sure the GTS-R is 82" wide. At least I read that in a couple of places..and aren't the GTS-R and GT3-R the same width? Also, if you look at the front of the GT3-R the street car doesn't have to be that wide to look nasty. They back is where it really needs it. You can shave a couple of inches off the front and still have it look very nasty. The back needs to be the same if not very close to the width of the race car. That's what gives it a supercar look (although it is not a "supercar"). Very low and very wide.

Just under 82" including mirrors, but all the regulations I read excluded mirrors from measurement in regards to the width maximum.

mnc2886 · Jun 26, 2013

If I remember correctly, the mirrors can add up to 10" in width according to the rules I read.

ViperSmith · Jun 26, 2013

My personal guess is the ACR will be the proving grounds for paddle shifters, it will absorb a lot of the dev costs (well, licensing from the manufacture), which will later roll into the base car. Still, maybe a $5,000 option in the base car, but it will be there.

I think the time left for manual is fading fast. The fact there really are few performance cars anymore with a manual is indicative of where the market is going. People want paddles and the market must respond. As much as die hards want the manual, but die hards don't keep businesses afloat.

Look at the 991 GT3, paddles. Die hards want their manual, but there are more people willing to stroke the check for the PDK. Just reality.

MoparMap · Jun 26, 2013

If nothing else I'd think they should keep the paddles an option to not alienate a decent chunk of the market base. I can't speak for the rest of Viper nation, but I got the impression that a good chunk like the more mechanical and connected feeling that diving a Viper over other cars offers. Not to mention the paddle boxes typically **** at heavy traffic from what I've heard (really jerky since there's little to no clutch modulation).

Newport Viper · Jun 26, 2013

Heck I have paddles on my Mini Cooper S @$33,000 (includes tax )...... I agree paddles dumb down the driving experience and take all the fun/ skillout of really driving a car however, for a $140k car not to have them as a option is silly in today's high end market...

bushido · Jun 26, 2013

ViperSmith said:
Look at the 991 GT3, paddles. Die hards want their manual, but there are more people willing to stroke the check for the PDK. Just reality.

Yes the new 991 GT3 is an amazing car..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVdme4ISq8Y

SADVIPER · Jun 27, 2013

This is epic.

Bonkers · Jun 27, 2013

ViperSmith said:
I think the time left for manual is fading fast. The fact there really are few performance
cars anymore with a manual is indicative of where the market is going. People want
paddles and the market must respond. As much as die hards want the manual, but die
hards don't keep businesses afloat.

I disagree. Looking at sales trends I don't see any huge sales leap with any supercar
"because they went paddles." In fact, everything I see says the manufacturers PUSHED
paddles onto the market and all the euro-trash guys sorta just went along with it. I
would be shocked if a single GenV was sold because it had paddles.

That being said, the Viper has always been about simplicity - push rods, six speeds, rwd.
Even the government mandated upgrades have taken spirit out of what the car should
be. I'm sorry, but I am all for production being shut down than seeing my dream car
turned into a measly porsche....

PDCjonny · Jun 27, 2013

I love paddle shifters.
Had two Vettes and four Vipers all manuals and now paddles in my Gallardo and feel just as "connected" to the car.
With paddles you are in complete control of the transmission, just not moving your left foot.
This supposed disconnect from the car because there is no actual clutch is nonsense.
Lightning fast.

If the Gen IV had them, would have cut seconds off the 'Ring time.

ViperSmith · Jun 27, 2013

Bonkers said:
I disagree. Looking at sales trends I don't see any huge sales leap with any supercar
"because they went paddles." In fact, everything I see says the manufacturers PUSHED
paddles onto the market and all the euro-trash guys sorta just went along with it. I
would be shocked if a single GenV was sold because it had paddles.

That being said, the Viper has always been about simplicity - push rods, six speeds, rwd.
Even the government mandated upgrades have taken spirit out of what the car should
be. I'm sorry, but I am all for production being shut down than seeing my dream car
turned into a measly porsche....

Perhaps it was pushed on the consumer, but it is now what consumers want. Just the way it is. The die hard Viper owners aren't going to be the only buyers (though they are great buyers), SRT needs wider market appeal.

Boxer12 · Jun 27, 2013

I hear F1 transmissions are about the size of a can of coffee...when is this tech going to trickle down?? Imagine the weight savings!

hou99gts · Jun 27, 2013

I just read on Carbuzz today that a GT3 Audi R8 runs $350k, the Viper GT3-R might be a tough sell to some at $459k.

ACRucrazy · Jun 28, 2013

I wont claim to have any idea what I am talking about when the topic is these GT3 cars or the like, but from what I read the Audi R8 GT3 was $350ish back in 2008. 5 years later its the Audi R8 LMS. The articles I found (in my 60 seconds of looking) stated the 2011/12/13 R8 LMS was 329k euros, or $440 back then Current exchange rate would put 329 Euro @ $469k.

Either way I am sure SRT knows exactly what they are doing with the pricing and who its marketed at. Unfortunately my wallet tells me it's not me.

Fatboy 18 · Jun 28, 2013

In the flesh the car simply looked stunning, will look forward to seeing these on a track somewhere. Way out of my budget.

Much prefered the new livery to the current Le mans series cars.

Wonder how many teams will snap these up?

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