Bruce H.
Enthusiast
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/co...AID=10364102&mktid=cj260233&mktcat=affiliates
I think fans of each will be pleased.
I think fans of each will be pleased.
Edmund's Viper and Stingray Review
- Thread starter Bruce H.
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kratedisease
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Oh boy !!! Here we go again....
I doubt that the fans of Viper are going to be happy with this review...
That's what you get with 2005 Technology !! ..... 2005 performance !!
v10enomous
Enthusiast
Lots of corvette fan boys... The guy looked sincerely pained whenever he had to concede anything in the Viper's favor. 43 sec mark for instance.
Crickets chirping on the 1/4 mile ET.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMAJ5a86sPc
Crickets chirping on the 1/4 mile ET.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMAJ5a86sPc
Voice of Reason
Enthusiast
Good article. It's funny how it closed with the white Batmobile comment. A couple weeks ago at the drive through at our bank the teller had inadvertently left on her microphone. Her boss walked up to the window and I heard him say 'that thing looks like a Batmobile, what is it?' So she leans over to the mic and asks me what it was. 
Well just another bleh performance outcome. Not sure anyone cares at this point, its' gotten so much bad press, another result where Edmunds recommends the C7 over the Viper for performance isn't as bad as a Ford Focus beating it as a Driver's car.
Seems the white Vipers, other than Ralph's, are anemic, lol, (j/k).
So they have the Vette out cornering, out braking, out handling, all perf is better than the viper except the 1/4 mile. So I guess when Pobst takes the C7 around Laguna he'll beat the Viper record?? (j/k again, I hope)
IMO, this test doesn't bang the Viper as much as offer info on how the Vette continues to manage to perf so well under-powered. I've always been amazed with the Z06, such an incredible track car without giant HP bragging rights. The C7 with another 100-200HP, better/wider tires/wheels, geesh, again we'll have US sports cars ruling the tracks ... at least the Vette for real & in mags, and the Viper for real but I guess not in the mags.
Seems the white Vipers, other than Ralph's, are anemic, lol, (j/k).
So they have the Vette out cornering, out braking, out handling, all perf is better than the viper except the 1/4 mile. So I guess when Pobst takes the C7 around Laguna he'll beat the Viper record?? (j/k again, I hope)
IMO, this test doesn't bang the Viper as much as offer info on how the Vette continues to manage to perf so well under-powered. I've always been amazed with the Z06, such an incredible track car without giant HP bragging rights. The C7 with another 100-200HP, better/wider tires/wheels, geesh, again we'll have US sports cars ruling the tracks ... at least the Vette for real & in mags, and the Viper for real but I guess not in the mags.
Oh and the 1/4 time doesn't personally bother me, the thing that does is the continued lower than expected trap speeds. I was hitting 125mph in my gen3 for Pete's sake, with old stock runflats, an 11.NN is fine but a sub 125mph is just a wonder to me. But maybe at high altitude, or whatever.
Voice of Reason
Enthusiast
The C7 trapped lower than it should have too, but the gap between C7 and Viper is what I expected. They're either at high altitude or their driver is just consistently bad.
kratedisease
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Finally !!! someone will agree that the white Vipers are the slowest !! Should have given them a red or blue with white stripes car ....
v10enomous
Enthusiast
Looks like they pulled a real base Viper without the track pack but even still this new C7 is going to shame a lot of much more pricey cars just like the HiPo C6's did.
elanderholm
Enthusiast
Tires. Say it with me T I R E S. skid pad and braking being that much worse than the vette is nothing but tire compound.
Doesn't matter what the magazines say if the reality is different. If the Viper really is the faster car and they just got a dud to test (curious to see how C7 lap times compare if they get around to it) then it's all the more fun when a C7 rolls up next to you and you smoke them or run them down on the track when they're sure they'll beat you because of some article they read. Hell, hopefully one of these days my gen 3 will out run the new guys if I put enough work into it. Then it's really egg on their face if they lose to something older .
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Wow, actually after reading over the whole article it makes me like a Viper even more. They really don't bash on it at all, they just comment how the cars are definitely built for different crowds. Performance wise they're surprisingly even, but emotionally they are on two whole different levels.
It's not an either/or thing--get both!
I'm working toward affording a Gen V coupe and C7 vert. Any chop I've seen of the Gen V vert is inferior to the coupe's looks, plus it would probably have a manual top and microscopic trunk, while the C7 works very well as a vert. Only need another couple hundred grand.
I'm working toward affording a Gen V coupe and C7 vert. Any chop I've seen of the Gen V vert is inferior to the coupe's looks, plus it would probably have a manual top and microscopic trunk, while the C7 works very well as a vert. Only need another couple hundred grand.
CEJ
Enthusiast
Viper for me. I just can't get past the Vette's tail end....it looks hideous to me. The GTS looks are in a class by itself.
I'm glad the Vette is a performer. Raises the bar for everyone else. SRT will continue to improve the Gen V...
I'm glad the Vette is a performer. Raises the bar for everyone else. SRT will continue to improve the Gen V...
kratedisease
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My mom says that anyone who buys a car just for the attention has low self esteem.... Oh, I hear her calling me to dinner..... I will be back on line in an hour.....don't want to keep mom waiting .....
Viper808
Viper Owner
EXACTLY !!!!
The Viper is the " Metalica" of Cars.... not everyone likes Metalica or think they are the best musicians in every aspect and are little rough around the edges..
The Corvette is great but its like :Rush or Pink Floyd....more refined and deliberate in execution ..still freaking great..but not what I am looking for in a car to capture my emotional, performance and X factor needs,,,,
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
elanderholm
Enthusiast
Remember what happened to the Gen 3 viper and the Z06 when they both came with run flats? Their performance was magically lower than porsches with less HP, but in the real world when the viper or Z06 owner put cup tires or hoosiers on all of sudden those cars couldn't keep up. The same thing is happening here. The pirellis are not up to par with the michelin super sport tires (or whatever they are called). The braking distance is very telling.
I get that mags don't want to run around reshoeing cars so their tires match, but they SHOULD know better than to claim victory for the brakes or suspension when it's obviously the tires. It's at best laziness and poor journalistic integrity and at worst ignorance. This bull**** translates to mag and forum racers. It's a bummer vipers aren't being shod with michelins from the factory anymore, but it doesn't convince me the C7 is even close to as fast.
I get that mags don't want to run around reshoeing cars so their tires match, but they SHOULD know better than to claim victory for the brakes or suspension when it's obviously the tires. It's at best laziness and poor journalistic integrity and at worst ignorance. This bull**** translates to mag and forum racers. It's a bummer vipers aren't being shod with michelins from the factory anymore, but it doesn't convince me the C7 is even close to as fast.
former345bhpLS1
Enthusiast
Though it seems that GM has really stepped things up with the C7, I agree that the Pirelli's are hurting the Viper at least some. I've heard nothing but amazing things about the michelin super sports. A buddy with a Z06 just mounted a set and they not only grip MUCH better than his old Nittos or stock Goodyears, but are also much more progressive. He says that grip is much more linear and steering/chassis feedback really improved with only a tire change.
The other issue is that this really highlights the analog vs digital issue. The Viper is still a analog car in spite of the recent digital additions and it's part of what makes the Viper awesome and unique. Still, the advantage of an E-diff, magnetic suspension, and PTM (it was on during the skidpad run, turn up the volume and you can hear the timber changes in the exhaust note) cannot be ignored. This stuff can be tuned so well that that the cars stay within the envelope even when the physics don't seem to add up.
I think that the C7 will now truly stand shoulder to shoulder with the 911 even at a much lower price. But I don't think that it is even standing in the same room with the Viper. Not necessarily in a hierarchical manner, just in terms of their personality and mission. I think the article spells those out pretty well.
The other issue is that this really highlights the analog vs digital issue. The Viper is still a analog car in spite of the recent digital additions and it's part of what makes the Viper awesome and unique. Still, the advantage of an E-diff, magnetic suspension, and PTM (it was on during the skidpad run, turn up the volume and you can hear the timber changes in the exhaust note) cannot be ignored. This stuff can be tuned so well that that the cars stay within the envelope even when the physics don't seem to add up.
I think that the C7 will now truly stand shoulder to shoulder with the 911 even at a much lower price. But I don't think that it is even standing in the same room with the Viper. Not necessarily in a hierarchical manner, just in terms of their personality and mission. I think the article spells those out pretty well.
former345bhpLS1
Enthusiast
Also, the C7 better not spend too much time sitting next to the Gen V, the visual downgrade will not be good for Corvette sales. I never realized how much better the GenV looked compared to the C7 until that video.
The C7 is a huge hit with most of those who have seen it or driven it, in looks and every other way. But the Gen V has, even sitting quietly in the showroom, a commanding presence and charisma all its own. I'm sure a lot of eyes rolled at driveSRT's line "It Consumes You" but after being around a few Gen Vs in person I'd say that's no idle promise. Pretty soon there will be 18 new C7s an hour, but never more than one, maybe two, new Vipers an hour.
And MY mom says we can play Airsoft in the yard after I'm done with the dishes.
kratedisease
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My mother says that the people on the Viper forums can be mean !! ( but not you Mr. hemotoxin)
former345bhpLS1
Enthusiast
I have heard that it looks good in person and I still think that it is the best new Corvette design since the 1963 MY. My feelings may be different seeing them side by side, but in the pictures the Gen V is much better looking to my eyes.
Of course, I still regard the Gen 2 GTS as the best looking american car ever built (and pretty much the best of any nationality), so that biases me heavily towards the Gen V. But even without that bias, it is a great looking car and is very well integrated. The C7 has a few awkward angles in the photos, I will reserve final judgment till I see it up close.
Of course, I still regard the Gen 2 GTS as the best looking american car ever built (and pretty much the best of any nationality), so that biases me heavily towards the Gen V. But even without that bias, it is a great looking car and is very well integrated. The C7 has a few awkward angles in the photos, I will reserve final judgment till I see it up close.
