Ray W
Enthusiast
We have a Winner. Since it would be an off road PCM anyway. Codes...Codes...we don't need your stinking Codes. lol
OK. One of U out there must be working on boost. Give it up.
- Thread starter Bobpantax
- Start date
Your logic is flawed, the SRT model was is priced at about 6K more than a optioned out Gen 4, weren't they priced out of the market then? The car has been out on the streets for five months, the Gen 2 did not see the SCT tuning package for 13 years???
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
That is a Gen IV engine with a Paxton that Jack posted. Hmmmm.... Test mule for Gen 5 engine?
Ray W
Enthusiast
Jack, I don't mean the price of the car. I mean those who won't unlock the PCM. They are protecting their product so well they are killing the car it was designed for. Leaving their technology without a car to put it in. As far as GEN II they could be modified day one. Provided you could find someone making the parts or systems you wanted. A 150 dry shot of NOS sure would take the bog out of your GEN V.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
I think it is too early to tell. All the pre-production videos the engineers talked the game how they built the engine to be modded.
Will they open it up, I guess time shall tell.
Will they open it up, I guess time shall tell.
Oh, I totally agree .. in 1989 my first Paxton install on my 1987 Mustang GT, I put it on over the weekend, no intercooler, only ignition change was plugs, and I did a Frod Racing speed density from MAP sensor swap kit, the car made 330hp, that's a bolt on 105hp on a 225hp engine back in the dark ages of this stuff. Legal kits on stangs easily run 40-50% increases.
I'm just saying the 750hp number, which would be sooooo easy to reach with the mildest of boost/kit, to me is where it starts to get to be an easy sell IMO, beyond 750 is just braggin rights, which is a blast, but at 750 you're at a point where a gen5 at it's weight and handling would be such a wickedly capable beast ... it would be ********** like, well, like when the orignal Viper came out. I mean back when I was bolting superchargers and heads on my stangs, thru the 90's I was using the Viper as the benchmark to chase .. until '99 when I couldn't take any longer & came to the dark side of Viper-dome.
This is a big point, half of the interviews or chats about the gen5 some engineer or Ralph was noting the mod friendly nature of this Viper and how the viper community likes to tinker and mod and the car has to accomodate that. Well ???? Time will tell, but I agree with many of the posts above in that SRT/Chrysler has to do one of two things - release a network for the aftermarket for computer tunability so the aftermarket can move forward, or produce Mopar based performance kits/packs of their own with varying perf levels. Without one or the other, the Viper future is choked on an unmodifiable car, something a huge % of buyers of these types of cars hates. It's the one thing I hate about my gen4, other than catback I can't tinker at all with it and I'm tired of this situation since 2008. Tic tock, Tic tock.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
Nope it was for a customer of ours and was done as a private build, not at all a development engine project.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
Another thing that Chrysler/SRT have to take into account with a PCM is that even though it is for off road only and could potentially void the engine warranty, people still believe that if something happens to their (probably more modded then just a PCM) engine it should be covered. There are not 40,000 Gen4/5 Vipers out there to worry about, but at $25K plus for an engine it is probably on their minds don't you think?
If the PCM was sold only with a signed legal document that states you are fully aware and take responsibility for its use and the coverage of the engine would that still interest you?
If the PCM was sold only with a signed legal document that states you are fully aware and take responsibility for its use and the coverage of the engine would that still interest you?
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
After the powertrain warranty was up, yes. LOL
Malu59RT
Enthusiast
So what did it do Mark? How much power did it make, and what was used to control the engine?
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
He is a customer, but we did not facilitate this build, he dealt direct with Lee and Todd. He is pretty private so I won't share his details about the build other then it made BIG numbers and I believe it was an AEM.
vpower01
Viper Owner
Very cool! 
FLL-B/W-GTS
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We (customers)have been hearing excuses for years for the Gen. 4s and now same spin for the Gen.5.Please,the new C7 Corvette is just out and they are already at the tuner shops.The C7s ,for 60,000.00 plus say.15000.00 for a supercharger install will smoke a Gen 5.So,you have a 75,000.00 Vette ,that will out perform a 120,000.00(average) Viper.Addition,wait for the new C7 HP Vettes,they will be insane.I say this,because,if Porsche,GM and Ford can do this,SRT must or the no one will buy Vipers and they will be done.Local dealer has 2 13s and 6 14 GTS in stock with 6 more coming,all sitting their not sold.SAD...10,000 under for the 13s and 8000 under for the 14s all day long...May just pick up a 14 GTS because the deal is so good,but I still hesitate because nothing else can be done with the car.
Have several friends in same boat...
Have several friends in same boat...
Malu59RT
Enthusiast
Not sure how to take that, since big numbers for Viper's tend to be 1500whp +, but I don't recall seeing many Gen III paxton SC cars making more than 1000whp (without N2O, etc.). Congrats though, if he's making 4 digits. Hope his AEM box is better than what most of my friends have, they seem to be a big head ache.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
I don't think it was that BIG of a number, but I think he has decided to try a TT build instead of the Paxton which is pretty limited air flow wise compared to a TT.
VRYALT3R3D
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The reason the Mopar PCM isn't out yet is because of changing regulations with CARB. They are currently, right now, working on the MOPAR PCM for the GEN V. It is expected to come out very very soon. Plus some other goodies from MOPAR to compliment the PCM -hint-
Standard I/H/E upgrades? wooooo
VRYALT3R3D
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I am thinking a turbocharger setup(no way a TVS fits under a Gen V's hood)
Plus some track stuff.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
VRYALT3R3D
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SRT Engineers is my source. Turbocharger would be my guess.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
Not trying to seem combative sorry if it comes across like that, but I have been in touch with Mopar 2X weekly pushing for the release of "anything" they promised and so far nothing is moving.
Standard answers that have been given for the last year or better. Mopar has already finished the PCM, it will always be an off road unit so not subject to anything CARB would care about, so my guess is the delays are related to other things within Chrysler or Mopar itself.
The Headers for the Gen4 work with a small change to the turnouts so that and the PCM is about all you will have power wise since the new intake is better already and the heads flow great without work.
cashcorn
Enthusiast
Gen V PCM, sounds to me like a rehash of a Gen IV with no real HP #'s to show for. I've been wanting to buy a Gen 5 or Gen IV for about a year now, but with no mods I will probably end up with a new C7 or wait to see the new Mustang.
Mark, I wish you weren't such a reliable source of info, your reality checks are depressing me. I hope the gen5 isn't just more of the same gen4 stuff of mucking with the exhaust, throwing on an illegal PCM you CAN'T get thru emissions with, so if you do the mod in a testing state you're totally screwed or swapping off the headers every two years so you don't throw a code on a state OBD reader ... blah blah. I'm tired of it with my gen4, hope is getting dashed now for the gen5, hope built up by Ralph & the guys referencing mod-friendly over & over. If this is the future, I may indeed go backwards and if I stay with a Viper maybe move to a gen3 and play with mods just for the sake of having a Viper. I fear I may eventually have to change my signature. Working on 15 yrs in the Viper community and I'm really frustrated. I've had over a $100K sitting in an account since last Sept for this car and get pull the trigger because of all the uncertainty, I just wonder how many buyers are sitting on the side line like me .. and scrolling thru used Gallardo ads on the weekend. Venting a little. Thanks for the voice of reason, as always.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
D,
I feel your pain just as much because the mods are our business also ya know.
There have been the S/C rumors out there and I can dream that even if the PCM allows the same old for the new car (which is still almost 700hp)
when your are done that the potential S/C with it's own programmed PCM included would still make some buyers very happy. Who knows if that happened maybe the parameters of that tune would allow more boost etc after the fact?
I do disagree to a point. The G5 got "forged" internals to keep from breaking pistons on the track left and right, not necessarily for boost. I have seen more broken OE G4 pistons than any other generation by a LONG stretch. They still use the same PM rods as G4. The "forged" pistons in the G5, while better than any G3/4 piston, are by no means anywhere near as strong as anything from the aftermarket.
Low Boost ONLY. VERY low boost, considering how much power the G4/5 engines can make with little boost- its not like the earlier engines, its more comparable to the boost response of a Striker Head G3 with a ported manifold than any stock G1/2/3 car.
It can be done. I have 3 TT cars here, a G2, G3, and G4... all Pectel, and they will ALL pass OBD-2 emissions. It just takes a lot of knowing what you are doing, and a lot of extra time in harness design. To my knowledge, we are the only ones who have done it. No one has pushed the Pectel as far as we have... hell, virtually nobody has even touched some of the Pectel ECUs and other components that we have already implemented into builds. Sorry though, I can only give snapshots of what we have done, not how. There are certainly a few people who would love to run off with some key problem solutions for free, and believe me when I tell you that this market is full of copy-cats these days who love to take one businesses ideas/solutions and run off with them. After all, its easier & cheaper to let someone else do the hard work, then act like it was yours. [and no, I am not implicating anyone here... just a general comment on this market at the moment]
If anyone doubts that it can be done, I would be more than happy to post a video of one of them passing a plug-in test sometime in the next month or so when they are done for the season and get inspected before going to sleep for the winter.
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TrackAire
Enthusiast
It is very frustrating.....if you do not want to modify a car, buy a Chrysler product. If mods are in your future, buy a Ford, GM, Italian, German, Japanese or British car. The Ford GT of the future will be the 2006 Gen 3 Coupe. Pretty much the same chassis as the Gen 4 and Gen 5 but with huge mod potential.
I've given up hope after waiting 5 years and have started buying other brands that can be modified. Mark my words, this will effect Chrysler's sales in the next 24 months and Sergio will be wondering where the cash cow that was helping Fiat went. Forget Vipers, but when Jeeps, Rams, Darts, Challengers and Chargers can't be easily modified.....it's just way too easy to walk across the street and pick up a Ford or GM product. And once you switch brands, it's very easy to stay with that brand. Imagine what the Chrysler bottom line would look like with just a sales drop of 5% off the Ram and Jeep line....Yikes!!
Cheers,
George
chorps
Enthusiast
So what would you replace a stock GenIV piston with? ACR-X pistons or Gen V pistons? Or another brand? How much power would you lose by going forged piston? Is this a track only issue?
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